Thought everything was going well until I got my BW

[je909ki]

I'll keep it short. I've been on testosterone injections since 2012 for secondary hypogonadism. Dealt with the same crap everyone else did finding a Dr. and getting on the right track (This forum really saved me back then.) I thought everything was fine until I got my most recent BW back. I haven't been feeling great, but well enough the past few years. I recently moved to St. Louis and am looking for a HRT doctor here so I can get back on track. I'm 5"11, 190lbs. I don't eat meat or dairy (yea yea there's my first problem) and I do circuit training type workouts every day. I would greatly appreciate any insight into interpreting and how to correct any issues with my BW. Thank you!

Protocol:
Test Cyp IM - 140mg weekly
Dhea - 50mg every morning
Pregnenolone - 50mg every morning
No HCG or AI (Doc won't prescribe either)

Most recent BW:

Test total - 577 ng/dL (270-1070)
Test free calc - 213 pg/mL (47-244)
Test percentage free - 2.1% (1.6-2.9)
Test adult male - 1000 ng/dL (300-1080)
Test bioavailable - 595 ng/dL (131-682)
Test estrogen binding globulin - 33 nmol/L (11-80)
Estrone - 36.3 pg/mL (9.0-36.0)
Estradiol serum - 36.4 pg/mL (10.0-42.0)
Estrogen total - 72.7 pg/mL (19.0-69.0)
FSH - <0.3 mIU/mL (1.3-19.3)
LH - <0.3 mIU/mL (1.2-8.6)
DHEA - 14.000 ng/mL (1.330-7.780)
Cholesterol - 116 mg/dL (120-200)
Triglycerides - 32 mg/dL (10-160)
HDL - 35 mg/dL (>40)
LDL calculated - 75 mg/dL (<100 =optimal)

[Couchlockd]

Drop the DHEA and Pregnenolone.

With exogenous test on board, and testicles shut down, the only thing I can imagine those would only increase estrogen. This is just my therory, as they are "parent hormones" to all hormones.

Kel Kell can advise better.

By the way, those bloods look pretty good.

[Windex]

You can buy HCG from a UGL until you find a doctor that will script it. AI is not needed on TRT more often than not.

Don't forget to split the injections into 2 week week not once per week.

All the bloodwork is in range there isn't really any issues. FSH and LH will always be zero because your taking exogenous test. HCG replaces these two hormones which is why it's beneficial for TRT.

[Simon1972]

I would go so far as saying you are taking too much for trt. You do need to treat that estrogen with an ai, source your own if you need to.

I'd go down to 75 mg to 100mg a week for a few months to get your receptors back on deck and drop dhea to every other day,

[HoldMyBeer]

That fsh and lh is:
" In men, LH stimulates testosterone production from the interstitial cells of the testes (Leydig cells). FSHstimulates testicular growth and enhances the production of an androgen-binding protein by the Sertoli cells, which are a component of the testicular tubule necessary for sustaining the maturing sperm cell. "
I would be surprised if they were in the normal range while on trt for that long. And everything else seems to be in range. Like Windex said, hcg could help w this if it really concerns you (but I don't think it's really necessary unless you're trying to have kids in the near future and probably why the doc won't prescribe it). Looks like you're in good shape brother.

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[kelkel]

Good advice from guys above. Assume that BW is trough level 6-7 days post injection?

Drop your dose to 50 or 60 X 2 and check basic bloods in 6 weeks (total T, FT and E2 Sensitive)
DHEA and Preg are hit and miss. Can they help, sure. Will you notice or feel anything, doubtful. If you do use them make sure they are micronized products. I went on and off them for years (including blood work) and eventually stopped due to not noticing any significant difference.

Re HCG. Is it needed, no unless you want to maintain spermatogenesis. It is good stuff, yes so if you can implement it. It can be purchased via on line pharmacies quite cheaply. Most tend to feel better on it. Remember we have LH receptors throughout our bodies.

[Youthful55guy]

Good advice from guys above. Assume that BW is trough level 6-7 days post injection?

Drop your dose to 50 or 60 X 2 and check basic bloods in 6 weeks (total T, FT and E2 Sensitive)
DHEA and Preg are hit and miss. Can they help, sure. Will you notice or feel anything, doubtful. If you do use them make sure they are micronized products. I went on and off them for years (including blood work) and eventually stopped due to not noticing any significant difference.

Re HCG. Is it needed, no unless you want to maintain spermatogenesis. It is good stuff, yes so if you can implement it. It can be purchased via on line pharmacies quite cheaply. Most tend to feel better on it. Remember we have LH receptors throughout our bodies.

Very good advice all around. Except that I'd continue backfilling hormones with DHEA and pregnenolone if you do not implement regular use of HCG. I personally have not done the research, but both my former (expert in the field) TRT doctor as well as Dr. Crisler recommend it. I'd consider though dropping the DHEA to 25 mg.


If on the other hand you do implement an HCG protocol, backfilling hormonal paths should (in theory) not be necessary as DHEA will take the place of the loss in LH production. However, I should point out that I do implement a heft HCG protocol (1000 IU/wk in split doses) and I supplement with 25mg DHEA and 50mg pregnenolone daily. I do not have E problems. I used to use very low dose anastrozole, but have slowly decreased it to none over the pass 9 months and have not seen a concomitant increase in E (always in range), so I do not believe in the theory that backfilling hormonal paths contributes to high E.