Sprinters - Offseason cycle

[buckeyefootball4]

I haven't done anything since 2009 and my last cycle in 2009 was very successful.. It lead into my indoor track season, it was a success because I didn't experience any sides (blood work was great) and kept all my gains (strength, power, speed, no weight gain). The dosages were very low - most people would say it was a waste of time. I'm thinking about running the same cycle this upcoming fall and I'm curious would you guys use the same dosages or bump up slightly?

Don't have my spreadsheet to list every single detail but the cycle went something like this....

Test prop: 10 weeks 66mg/3x weekly

Tren ace: 6 weeks 50mg/3x weekly

Winstrol: 7 weeks 30-50mgs

T3: 6 weeks 25-100mcg

Proviron: 5weeks 25-50mgs (intro week 11)

Letro: 4 weeks .5-2.5 (intro week 8)

Nolva 4 weeks 10-20 (intro week 12)



Side note: Back in 2006-2008 there was a pretty big forum that had a lot of good stuff on it but i believe they got busted. Anyone remember the name of that forum?

[GearHeaded]

tren, winstrol, T3 .. that sounds like a contest prep cycle to get to 4% body fat more then it sounds like a PED protocol for a track athlete.
probably 90% of the guys I've contest prepped were running these compounds going into their show.

I'd switch things around

test 200mg a week - 10 weeks
NPP or EQ- 300mg a week - 8 weeks
Tbol - 50mg a day - 8 weeks
Cardarine 20mg a day 12 weeks

then your pct protocol if thats what you decide to do..

think you'd get much more athletic performance and better training from something like this, then tren and winny and T3 (which are all mainly cosmetic drugs)

[Cuz]

I think you would be fine with some test P and winstrol and would achieve the same results with alot less gear.

For the record im on 50mg of tren ace 3x per week and as the cycle goes on im starting to get my wind back but when i started it i was gasping for air. Tren isnt an endurance drug. So id probably drop it

I definitely wouldnt need nolva or letro on that cycle without the tren. Winstrol always helped with estrogen sides for me for example gyno symptoms i just use mast now.

Test p 300 a week ed or eod and winny at 50mg a day sounds good to me

[buckeyefootball4]

tren, winstrol, T3 .. that sounds like a contest prep cycle to get to 4% body fat more then it sounds like a PED protocol for a track athlete.
probably 90% of the guys I've contest prepped where running these compounds going into their show.

I'd with things around

test 200mg a week - 10 weeks
NPP or EQ- 300mg a week - 8 weeks
Tbol - 50mg a day - 8 weeks
Cardarine 20mg a day 12 weeks

then your pct protocol if thats what you decide to do..

think you'd get much more athletic performance and better training from something like this, then tren and winny and T3 (which are all mainly cosmetic drugs)

Many track and field athletes take t3 to help control their bodyweight in the offseason. They all aren't genetic freaks when it comes to bodyweight this is the lil secret they use... Tren ace and winstrol not much need to be said about those two chemicals when it comes to raw speed and power. Added over 70lbs to my back squat and 0.2 drop in my 60m time.

Your cycle posted - test sure.... NPP/Eq - tren ace and winstrol blow both of those out the building. Tbol I use inseason at 30mgs. I tried Cardarine it's ok but I want pure power, speed, and CNS stimulation.

I wouldn't never run cardarine for 12 weeks... I did 20mgs for 4 weeks and that was enough for me.

[buckeyefootball4]

I think you would be fine with some test P and winstrol and would achieve the same results with alot less gear.

For the record im on 50mg of tren ace 3x per week and as the cycle goes on im starting to get my wind back but when i started it i was gasping for air. Tren isnt an endurance drug. So id probably drop it

I definitely wouldnt need nolva or letro on that cycle without the tren. Winstrol always helped with estrogen sides for me for example gyno symptoms i just use mast now.

Test p 300 a week ed or eod and winny at 50mg a day sounds good to me

I had no endurance issues with tren ace - maybe because I wasn't running over 60m but I had no tren side effects. I ran the letro and proviron because I'm very prone to gyno. The winstrol was hard on my hair line - may actually drop the winstrol.

Tren ace is the king for power and speed... The best drug I ever did!!!

[Cuz]

I had no endurance issues with tren ace - maybe because I wasn't running over 60m but I had no tren side effects. I ran the letro and proviron because I'm very prone to gyno. The winstrol was hard on my hair line - may actually drop the winstrol.

Tren ace is the king for power and speed... The best drug I ever did!!!

Tren is king for me as well i definitely agree works amazingly in such small doses. Winstrol just helped me energy wise but also cramped me up good luck on what ever you choose

[Windex]

Cardarine is one of the best endurance compounds you can use. I wouldn't limit it to X weeks at all.


Secondly you need to inject Prop and Ace esters every day. Injecting 3 times per week not only gives you a hormonal roller coaster but wastes most of your dose, effectively wasting your time/money. For an easy visual representation, go to steroidcalc website and graph daily versus 3X injections. If you don't want daily injections then switch to long esters.

Agree with Tren being counterproductive to goals. Bloodwork is not the end all be all of health.

Between the injection protocol, ester half life, and ester weight, you were essentially on 80mg of Tren per week roughly. That's why you didn't experience any side effects.

There are maybe 2 or 3 scenarios where you'd ever want to touch Letrozole. Cycling is not one of those scenarios. Masteron and/or Tamoxifen are more than sufficient to control E

[GearHeaded]

T3 at 100mcg per day,, yeah sure thats going to limit your body weight, like you suggest .
but thats going to be total shit for overall performance output. and put a strain on your performance, ability to recover, your heart, pulse rate, your thermogensis.. etc.. everything is going to have to work harder just for the day to day basics.
not a good idea for performance at all.

if you want to keep your weight down when on cycle.. then use the proper drugs and the stack that does not have you gaining weight in the first place. also control your diet..
perhaps 75mcg of T4 to add some metabolic support ,, but heck 100mcg of T3 for performance enhancement is ridiculous and may very well likely land you in the hospital (with heart palpitations at rest .. let alone whats going to happen when sprinting) . BAD idea bud.

[GearHeaded]

Your cycle posted - test sure.... NPP/Eq - tren ace and winstrol blow both of those out the building. Tbol I use inseason at 30mgs. I tried Cardarine it's ok but I want pure power, speed, and CNS stimulation.

sounds like your training for a one time athletic event and not prepping and running cycles to actually support your training (even though your thread title said "off season") . off season is generally when your running cycles longer term to support recovery and support your training and nutrition.

looking for pure power and cns stimulation is something that works well for one time athletic events , but not for off season training and recovery .

the cycle I had proposed was training and recovery focused .. which again, was apparently the title of this thread and the purpose you were looking for to begin with.

save the Tren and Winny for going into an athletic event.. they aren't going do much to support recovery and training over the long term

[buckeyefootball4]

Cardarine is one of the best endurance compounds you can use. I wouldn't limit it to X weeks at all.


Secondly you need to inject Prop and Ace esters every day. Injecting 3 times per week not only gives you a hormonal roller coaster but wastes most of your dose, effectively wasting your time/money. For an easy visual representation, go to steroidcalc website and graph daily versus 3X injections. If you don't want daily injections then switch to long esters.

Agree with Tren being counterproductive to goals. Bloodwork is not the end all be all of health.

Between the injection protocol, ester half life, and ester weight, you were essentially on 80mg of Tren per week roughly. That's why you didn't experience any side effects.

There are maybe 2 or 3 scenarios where you'd ever want to touch Letrozole. Cycling is not one of those scenarios. Masteron and/or Tamoxifen are more than sufficient to control E

My results spoke for themselves!!! Once again I don't care about endurance - my event has nothing to do with endurance. The rest of your post isn't worth speaking on... Bol with your cycles/training.

[buckeyefootball4]

T3 at 100mcg per day,, yeah sure thats going to limit your body weight, like you suggest .
but thats going to be total shit for overall performance output. and put a strain on your performance, ability to recover, your heart, pulse rate, your thermogensis.. etc.. everything is going to have to work harder just for the day to day basics.
not a good idea for performance at all.

if you want to keep your weight down when on cycle.. then use the proper drugs and the stack that does not have you gaining weight in the first place. also control your diet..
perhaps 75mcg of T4 to add some metabolic support ,, but heck 100mcg of T3 for performance enhancement is ridiculous and may very well likely land you in the hospital (with heart palpitations at rest .. let alone whats going to happen when sprinting) . BAD idea bud.

Didn't hurt my performance at all - sure I wouldn't have squatted 600lbs at 193lbs if it was killing my performance. I eventually got my weight down to 170-175lbs.

[GearHeaded]

Cardarine is one of the best endurance compounds you can use. I wouldn't limit it to X weeks at all.

agree with this.. high level cross fitters are busted for Cardarine use more then all other drugs combined (Var is second on the list).
theres a reason its so highly used by them and other explosive endurance athletes .

limiting its use, is akin to saying you want to limit your performance

[buckeyefootball4]

sounds like your training for a one time athletic event and not prepping and running cycles to actually support your training (even though your thread title said "off season") . off season is generally when your running cycles longer term to support recovery and support your training and nutrition.

looking for pure power and cns stimulation is something that works well for one time athletic events , but not for off season training and recovery .

the cycle I had proposed was training and recovery focused .. which again, was apparently the title of this thread and the purpose you were looking for to begin with.

save the Tren and Winny for going into an athletic event.. they aren't going do much to support recovery and training over the long term

False... Track and field offseason can be as short as 2-3 months. My training is a little longer and I save my cycles for the intensive training.

GPP: 8 weeks (general training, developing general fitness etc)
SPP: 12 weeks (specific training, intensive speed and max strength training) This is when my cycles start.

I'm not taking tren nor winstrol inseason. My best inseason chemical 60mins before I race is halotestin or cheque drops 20-30mgs. Will turn you into a fucking animal.

[GearHeaded]

Didn't hurt my performance at all - sure I wouldn't have squatted 600lbs at 193lbs if it was killing my performance.

did you check you Vo2 max, resting heart rate, heart rate variability, sleep patterns, cardiac outputs, body temp. etc.. all while on 100mcg of T3 . lol. theres no doubt your athletic performance was hindered.

just an elementary understanding of how T3 woks in the body you would know this . how much you squat is irrelevant.

had a client almost have to pull out of a show this year cause he ended up in the ER with heart arrhythmia due to taking T3 at that dosage . and here you are a track athlete and sprinting and putting massive strain on your heart taking that same dosage.
lol good luck with that. hope you have life insurance

[GearHeaded]

False... Track and field offseason can be as short as 3 months. My training is a little longer and I save my cycles for the intensive training.

GPP: 8 weeks (general training, developing general fitness etc)
SPP: 12 weeks (specific training, intensive speed and max strength training) This is when my cycles start.

I'm not taking tren nor winstrol inseason. My best inseason chemical 60mins before I race is halotestin or cheque drops 20-30mgs. Will turn you into a fucking animal.

LOL .. ok, you clearly know it all and know what your doing. now sure, you haven't touched gear in 11 years . but your clearly a steroid genius.
not sure why you even started this thread if your the know it all in the first place.

good luck to you and your new 'first cycle' in 11 years .

[buckeyefootball4]

agree with this.. high level cross fitters are busted for Cardarine use more then all other drugs combined (Var is second on the list).
theres a reason its so highly used by them and other explosive endurance athletes .

limiting its use, is akin to saying you want to limit your performance

Crossfitters - LOL.... Seriously??? I'm far from a crossfitter and don't want anything a crossfitter has.... SPeed and power = 1 rep!!! 1 max effort is all i care about.

[GearHeaded]

of course , when you go through your threads that you've started, you don't even have experience using Winstrol, and your asking questions for friends of yours that want to try winny . lol . but now you somehow know everything, yet you say you have not cycled in 11 years ..

my guess . you've rarely ever cycled gear your whole life and your just talking a lot of shit acting like you know your stuff

im curious what you guys think about low amounts of winstrol for speed and power athletes, bc i have friend who took 5-10mg and got pretty good results? i know most of you guys are thinking what the hell will 5-10mg do.

[buckeyefootball4]

did you check you Vo2 max, resting heart rate, heart rate variability, sleep patterns, cardiac outputs, body temp. etc.. all while on 100mcg of T3 . lol. theres no doubt your athletic performance was hindered.

just an elementary understanding of how T3 woks in the body you would know this . how much you squat is irrelevant.

had a client almost have to pull out of a show this year cause he ended up in the ER with heart arrhythmia due to taking T3 at that dosage . and here you are a track athlete and sprinting and putting massive strain on your heart taking that same dosage.
lol good luck with that. hope you have life insurance

Give 2 shit about a Vo2 max. My resting heart rate was 50 and hrv score 90.

[GearHeaded]

Give 2 shit about a Vo2 max. My resting heart rate was 50 and hrv score 90.

well congrats . your T3 was fake.

and the one time you ran it back in 2007, when your throat, Adams apple got sore and you started a thread saying you thought the T3 was causing this .. no need to worry cause it was fake anyhow.

you didn't know to track resting heart rate elevation and body temp incraseses to confirm your T3 was real and working.. and you were so undeducated in human biology you thought that T3 was produced in the thyroid gland located in your throat (thats why you were worried about your throat pain while on fake T3) , rather then knowing that T3 is produced in the liver .


just making this point cause you decided to start a thread asking for cycle support help (which obviously you need cause your very un experienced) , yet everyone that comes on here and gives you suggestions you talk down to and act like your the know it all genius elite athlete bragging your ass off . why even start this thread then genius ?

[buckeyefootball4]

well congrats . your T3 was fake.

and the one time you ran it back in 2007, when your throat, Adams apple got sore and you started a thread saying you thought the T3 was causing this .. no need to worry cause it was fake anyhow.

you didn't know to track resting heart rate elevation and body temp incraseses to confirm your T3 was real and working.. and you were so undeducated in human biology you thought that T3 was produced in the thyroid gland located in your throat (thats why you were worried about your throat pain while on fake T3) , rather then knowing that T3 is produced in the liver .


just making this point cause you decided to start a thread asking for cycle support help (which obviously you need cause your very un experienced) , yet everyone that comes on here and gives you suggestions you talk down to and act like your the know it all genius elite athlete bragging your ass off . why even start this thread then genius ?

Stick to the topic.... I had 2 questions and you have answered neither. I don't need your dream cycles etc - I'm good...

[GearHeaded]

Stick to the topic.... I had 2 questions and you have answered neither. I don't need your dream cycles etc - I'm good...

good. enjoy your little run. mr world class sprinter. have fun on all that T3 and Tren

[GearHeaded]

Stick to the topic.... I had 2 questions and you have answered neither. I don't need your dream cycles etc - I'm good...

and on a side note.. for what its worth. someone I consider one of my mentors who helped me become a successful coach (in regards to AAS and human performance), has been working with world class track and field athletes for 25+ years especially when it comes to the pharmacology side of things. He's worked with the best of the best athletes in the world.
so I've learned a thing or two about AAS use in these athletes

but if you don't have an open mind to listen for 5 seconds, and your closed minded and think you already know it all . your likely never going to have much success with that attitude.

if your at such a high level .. then go ask your D2 500k$ per year strength coach what you should be doing, rather then random strangers on the internet .

[buckeyefootball4]

and on a side note.. for what its worth. someone I consider one of my mentors who helped me become a successful coach (in regards to AAS and human performance), has been working with world class track and field athletes for 25+ years especially when it comes to the pharmacology side of things. He's worked with the best of the best athletes in the world.
so I've learned a thing or two about AAS use in these athletes

but if you don't have an open mind to listen for 5 seconds, and your closed minded and think you already know it all . your likely never going to have much success with that attitude.

if your at such a high level .. then go ask your D2 500k$ per year strength coach what you should be doing, rather then random strangers on the internet .

Sorry, I must have hurt your feelings little one or you must be having a bad day in your mom's basement. My glory days are over, I played football and ran 60-100-200 for a D1 school. But hey D2 coaches are great coaches also... Go sit yo ass down somewhere - scrub...



Enjoy...

[GearHeaded]

My glory days are over, I played football and run 60-100-200 for a D1 school. .

and now your just a used car salesman wanting to run a cycle again in hopes that your wife will want to love you again and stop calling you fat and out of shape .

interesting the date and timing of your post . OK mr 'New Years resolutioner ' .. eh. welcome back to the gym. hope you stay for longer then just January this time

[GearHeaded]

My glory days are over, I played football and run 60-100-200 for a D1 school. .

ok now this makes a lot more sense. I get it now . now I know why your wanting to run Tren, Winny, and T3 (which are run together in bodybuilding for cosmetic effects and fat loss).

and the reason you joined the forums 15 years ago is because it was THEN that you were an actual track athlete.. but now your still living in the past. now your fat and out of shape and in your late 30s (almost 40) with a dad bod.

yes. Tren, Winny, and T3, are going to be a good combo in your New Years resolution goals and current situation to try and look like an athlete again.

why didn't you just say that in the first place instead of making all this "I'm an elite level sprinter that squats 600 pounds" bullshit up.
thats completely irrelevant to your current situation and needs.

the fact that you ran track 2 decades ago is worthless information for your current situation of just needing to get back in shape

[buckeyefootball4]

ok now this makes a lot more sense. I get it now . now I know why your wanting to run Tren, Winny, and T3 (which are run together in bodybuilding for cosmetic effects and fat loss).

and the reason you joined the forums 15 years ago is because it was THEN that you were an actual track athlete.. but now your still living in the past. now your fat and out of shape and in your late 30s (almost 40) with a dad bod.

yes. Tren, Winny, and T3, are going to be a good combo in your New Years resolution goals and current situation to try and look like an athlete again.

why didn't you just say that in the first place instead of making all this "I'm an elite level sprinter that squats 600 pounds" bullshit up.
thats completely irrelevant to your current situation and needs.

the fact that you ran track 2 decades ago is worthless information for your current situation of just needing to get back in shape

Last message for you.. Actually have my third meet next weekend!!!! Irrelevant but Ben johnson squatted 2x6x600. Oppps - his fav drug was also winstrol along with some others.... Do me one favorite and please don't recommend that lame cycle to any other speed/power athlete. People like yourself give other meatheads bad names..

[GearHeaded]

Last message for you.. Actually have my third meet next weekend!!!! Irrelevant but Ben johnson squatted 2x6x600. Oppps - his fav drug was also winstrol along with some others.... Do me one favorite and please don't recommend that lame cycle to any other speed/power athlete. People like yourself give other meatheads bad names..

yeah yeah.. we'll all see you on the cover of Sports Illustrated here soon , eh mr 40 year old washed up dad bod,, that thinks Tren and T3 are performance enhancing track athlete drugs .
your a joke . this whole thread was a joke on your part in the first place . like you have an "off season" training program for sprinting anyhow. stop living in your college days.. that was 20 years ago buddy

[GearHeaded]

so for the CASUAL READER OF THIS THREAD .. who may actually be interested in AAS use for the purpose of athletic performance (the OP obviously is not). heres some info and explanations

reasons why you would NOT want to run Test, Tren, Winny, and T3 .. for an off season track and filed training block (or other similar sport).

- when your in a 6-10 week long off season training block.. the training and recovery are of the utmost importance. if you can't get the results your looking for out of the training and recovery, then it was a failure. also, managing recovery, fatigue, CNS fatigue, and systemic fatigue accumulation is very important.
you may be training upwards of 2-3 times per day. recovery is super important.

- Tren is a compound that overly stimulates the CNS because of its high androgenicity and ability to strongly bind with androgen receptors in the brain. this constant over stimulation is great temporarily for strength gains and aggression. but is not great over the long haul of the training block because it wears you out and it limits your training capacity and limits your recovery..
your mentally irritable, unable to sleep well, and your recovery ability goes down hill.

- Winny.. great drug short term to add strength and performance without weight gain. very popular PED. however it should be limited to short term use mainly around an athletic event, and not necessarily be used long term during the whole duration of a training block.
the reason why.. because Winny is a unique AAS that has the profound ability of completely blocking Cortisol production. and Cortisol is your body's natural anti inflammatory that can help with recovery as well as joint health.
if your training explosively for a 10 week training block, without Cortisol that whole time. your joints are going to end up being beat to shit and your going to have issues. plus you inflammation is going to be through the roof.

- now combine tren and winny together.. Tren all by itself is an inflammatory drug. Winny is a drug that blocks your body's natural anti inflammatory responses. your now totally inflamed and likely dealing with chronic fatigue of not only the CNS, but local fatigue in joints and connective tissue as well .


- T3 at 100mcg per day. I already explained this above a bit. but this is not a performance enhancer, its a performance decreaser . it makes your body work much harder to operate all of its normal daily functions (like heart beating, thermogenisis, metabolisms, etc.)..
you really think your going to perform better in training for sport when your heart is working harder then normal just sitting there, your body temp is constantly running near a fever, your metabolism is running twice as fast as normal, etc. etc..
of course not.


- now lets combine the combo of test with tren. bad combo for sports performance when body weight gain is an issue or hindrance.
Test is estrogenic and converts to DHT , Tren is very androgenic.. when you combine all those factors together, you create a perfect whirlwind for your body to super compensate glucose metabolism, glycogen retention, and inter cellular water retention . this metabolic super compensation can result in 10-20 pounds of weight being gained in a matter of weeks..
you really think your going to run faster with 20 pound weights on your ankles. no.
this glucose metabolism effects is great for bodybuilders and power lifters ,, but not so great for sports performance .



I could go on.. but thats enough about that aspect. sure you casual readers get the points. and I'm sure OP is still absolutely delusional and living in the past.

[GearHeaded]

I like the reputation comment you left .. "grow up or stop posting" . your the one living in the past and your glory days were when you were a kid rather then a grown man.
I gave valid points .. your response to my points was "umm I used to squat 600 pounds in college" . lol. you reputation comment was obviously meant for yourself right

[buckeyefootball4]

I like the reputation comment you left .. "grow up or stop posting" . your the one living in the past and your glory days were when you were a kid rather then a grown man.
I gave valid points .. your response to my points was "umm I used to squat 600 pounds in college" . lol. you reputation comment was obviously meant for yourself right

Kiddo don't you have something better to do on a saturday night besides checking rep points. I just gave you some points and I put my name on it. Next time have your facts straight, I didn't give you any negative points.