First cycle, 4 weeks in bloods review. Advice needed

[fish479]

Hey guys,

So I’m 30. 92kg not sure on body fat but I’d say around 15%. Been working out for a few years.

I recently started my first cycle, 250mg SUS250 E3D. I’m 4 weeks and have got my bloods done.

I want to get people opinions of the results, I have some Arimidex which I haven’t started to take, I was thinking of starting with .25mg each injection day for 2 weeks then getting bloods done again. I also have HCG which I was thinking of doing 250units each injection day.

So far I have no signs of gyno, mood hasn’t changed much and sex drive is normal. However I want to get that E2 level down a bit before I do get signs. I have become a little puffy which I’m putting down to water weight.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

[Test Monsterone]

If you decide to take the Arimidex at .25 mg/injection, I would run some labs a few weeks into it again to make sure you are not crashing it. Your estrogen level doesn't look excessively high for how much test you're taking.

A lot of people recommend against using AIs unless absolutely necessary, and using other compounds to counter the estrogenic effect. I'm not too versed on that subject matter, but I personally feel better mentally and physically when I take .25 mg anastrozole/arimidex with my injections. Less bloating, heaviness, mood issues, etc.

[fish479]

Awsome, so basically i shouldnt really be aiming to get my estrogen back into a normal range because I have excessive free test is that correct? The two need to be in some sort of ratio with one another?
I will be going for more blood work in about 2 weeks after then first .25mg is taken to check whats going on. I just want to be as safe as possible and be able to come off cycle with minimal side effects especially for a first cycle.

[SampsonandDelilah]

For me it’s about treating the symptoms of high estrogen as opposed to treating it because your labs say it’s elevated.

Some handle it and some don’t.

Mood, libido, edema, gyno are all examples of symptoms of high estrogen that would require intervention. If you’re humming along fine and sitting in the high range, I wouldn’t change a thing.

Let symptoms dictate and not the labs

That’s me though.

[Test Monsterone]

Awsome, so basically i shouldnt really be aiming to get my estrogen back into a normal range because I have excessive free test is that correct? The two need to be in some sort of ratio with one another?
I will be going for more blood work in about 2 weeks after then first .25mg is taken to check whats going on. I just want to be as safe as possible and be able to come off cycle with minimal side effects especially for a first cycle.

Yes, you don't have to have "in-range" estrogen because your testosterone is way out of range. Your body is trying to maintain some kind of homeostasis by upregulating the conversion of excess testosterone to estrogen. You won't really know how you feel without an AI until you don't take an AI. It can feel pretty terrible, you'll know something is off. For me, I get depressive moods/paranoia and water retention in the hands mostly. My fingers swell up. Then I'm also a lot more tired.

Sampson has some good advice. If you feel fine without an AI, you could just skip it. Be aware that high estrogen is not good for the prostate or heart. A balance is needed. Check your BP, eat healthy, and take a little AI if you start feeling off. Assess how you feel after a week, then run bloods if you're still not sure. Good luck!

[fish479]

Thanks for the advice! I took 0.5 Arimidex tonight (to hard to split into 0.25) which is 24 hours after injection. And 250 units of hcg. I don’t know if it’s a placebo but libido has gone through the roof tonight.
I’m going to stick to my plan for a 2 weeks and redo bloods and re assess the results and how I’m feeling and go from there. The main thing is not getting any sides from high E2.

I’d rather have as little E2 without any sides as I know it is not good for the heart and BP that’s my main concern, so if I can get away without having high E2 I will.

[charger69]

Thanks for the advice! I took 0.5 Arimidex tonight (to hard to split into 0.25) which is 24 hours after injection. And 250 units of hcg. I don’t know if it’s a placebo but libido has gone through the roof tonight.
I’m going to stick to my plan for a 2 weeks and redo bloods and re assess the results and how I’m feeling and go from there. The main thing is not getting any sides from high E2.

I’d rather have as little E2 without any sides as I know it is not good for the heart and BP that’s my main concern, so if I can get away without having high E2 I will.

You will be losing out on gains by lowering your e2. There are a lot of things that are not good for your heart and BP. AAS itself is worse for your heart and BP than elevated e2. Gaining weight causes a requirement for more blood flow and more work from your heart, this the enlargement of the heart.

[fish479]

I thought that having such a high E2 is actually bad for making gains? Could you explain why we want high E2 for putting on muscle? I’m
Not saying I disagree I’m actually just interested to learn

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I thought that having such a high E2 is actually bad for making gains? Could you explain why we want high E2 for putting on muscle? I’m
Not saying I disagree I’m actually just interested to learn

There is much debate about this.

I personally think that elevated E2 can help while on cycle.
However I am not in the camp that says that there is no level too high.

E2 will make you hold water. You may not like how you look bloated.
E2 can cause gyno.
Studies show elevated E2 with elevated test is shown to increase IGF-1 which is why people advocate having high E2. However there are also studies that show just elevated test causes an increase in IGF-1.

At 500mg of test I don't use AI.
Above that I would use a small amount. Say 6.25mg of Aromasin ED.

Please note: Everyone is different and it takes time to dial yourself in.

[SampsonandDelilah]

I thought that having such a high E2 is actually bad for making gains? Could you explain why we want high E2 for putting on muscle? I’m
Not saying I disagree I’m actually just interested to learn

DD touches on a lot of important points.

I’m just going to succinctly add this...

There is no data that suggests elevated estrogen inhibits gains. Elevated estrogen increases the possibility for adverse events...again, you want to treat the symptoms and not the lab report. However, you should have the appropriate arsenal on hand in case it rears it’s ugly head.

[fish479]

Yep! Understood, I will report back my bloods in a few weeks and see what you guys think. thanks for the advice!

[fish479]

Alright so thought I would just give everyone an update:

So since the first report I started taking 0.5mg Arimidex twice a week.... Big mistake, well I did loose 2kg in the week which im putting down to water weight as I didnt look as 'puffy' and became more defined. It did make me feel like shit 24 hours after the second 0.5mg, I was severely fatigued, bad mood etc. So I cut the AI out and bounced back after my next injection.

Gains have been steady however I feel I have hit a plateau, strength isn't going up and size/weight staying about the same. In saying that since starting my strength has gone through the roof and look alot better so I'm not complaining. Diet is still in check but I have had a few big nights drinking from social occasions which wouldnt help anything.

I decided last week after alot research that I'm going to throw in 200mg per week of Tren Ace. I know everyone says you shouldnt run it on your first cycle etc but since I have no side effects yet from the SUS250 Im hoping I may be one of the lucky ones that can handle it well. In saying that im keeping the doses low and decided on Ace that way if I cant handle it ill cut it immediately.I have Caber on hand, Arimidex on hand and have also started taking 500iu of HCG with each SUS injection just to keep my balls alive. Unless it is a placebo effect I feel the HCG makes my libido go through the roof about an hour or so after injecting.

So far so good with no sides and feeling great, I just did 250mg SUS and 100mg Tren for the first time today so Ill check back in when the Tren kicks in and lets see what happens.

[fish479]

You are changing too many variables for your first cycle. You have zero clue how your body is going to react to the various chemicals you are putting into it. I suggest you quit changing things and stick with the SUS ONLY. Do not add Tren, it's obvious from your posts that you are not ready for it.

You've been given solid advice in this thread by knowledgeable vets. I recommend you go back and read it and put it into practice. I'm not trying to be harsh, just maximize your chances for success.

Good luck!

Hmm yep ok, I understand, the last thing I want to do is some irreparable damage or not know what’s going on with my body. I’ll stick to what I have been told and leave the first cycle as SUS, get a sensitive E2 test and just monitor my progress.

Can I ask how long do people generally wait between cycles? I plan on doing a full PCT until everything is back in range and not cruising on Test but next year want to start cycle 2. Only when safe and advisable of course.

[SampsonandDelilah]

The old saying is “time on + PCT = time off”