Steroids for Health - Moderate Dose Short Cylces REVISED!

[jdavis2007]

Real world results usually trump scientific data. Everyone has different objectives, and so I see the need for long and short cycles, but I especially love when grown men air their dirty laundry via a forum. Just because (either one of) you advise people on how to use steroids doesn't mean a ton to me. Even Jose Conseco called himself "The Chemist" and he is an absolute moron. It's not hard to say take this and that for this long and you'll get great results. I'm all for a healthy debate but this is counter-productive from both Marcus and AR. This is an excellent example of why the general population views athletes that juice as idiots that are ruled with their testosterone-laden blood and hot heads. Break the stigma. Give it up. Does it really matter at the end of the day who's method works better, if it in actuality is working for your desired objectives? This is not a pissing contest. Get over it.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Agreed. My view on a cycle is neither long nor short, per se. It's "until you achieve your goal".

If you check out my article on designing a cycle (it's on my website), I don't give a "length of cycle" reccomendation, but rather I say you should run a cycle till you get the result you're after.

[marcus300]

Agreed. My view on a cycle is neither long nor short, per se. It's "until you achieve your goal".

If you check out my article on designing a cycle (it's on my website), I don't give a "length of cycle" reccomendation, but rather I say you should run a cycle till you get the result you're after.

I agree everybody should try what works and keep with it, we are all different and react in different ways when we introduce chemicals within the body, do what works for you,

[marcus300]

Real world results usually trump scientific data. Everyone has different objectives, and so I see the need for long and short cycles, but I especially love when grown men air their dirty laundry via a forum. Just because (either one of) you advise people on how to use steroids doesn't mean a ton to me. Even Jose Conseco called himself "The Chemist" and he is an absolute moron. It's not hard to say take this and that for this long and you'll get great results. I'm all for a healthy debate but this is counter-productive from both Marcus and AR. This is an excellent example of why the general population views athletes that juice as idiots that are ruled with their testosterone-laden blood and hot heads. Break the stigma. Give it up. Does it really matter at the end of the day who's method works better, if it in actuality is working for your desired objectives? This is not a pissing contest. Get over it.

I agree, ive tried many times to get back on topic, he always follows me around trying to sound large when i know he is not IMHO, ive stated why i dont hold anything he says with any credibility, also if you want to carry on AR pm and dont keep trying to trash any short cycle threads, i have my views just like you do,

As for books published , i dont think we should go into that should we? my personal view which is shared with many other boards is i would rather read someone's own work and not some copied work, if you want to carry on AR pls PM me and we will carry this on, but now am not going to respond to your weak claims or attacks, lets get back on with what we are all here for,

Thankyou

[Property of Steroid.com]

As for books published , i dont think we should go into that should we? my personal view which is shared with many other boards is i would rather read someone's own work and not some copied work, if you want to carry on AR pls PM me and we will carry this on, but now am not going to respond to your weak claims or attacks, lets get back on with what we are all here for,

Thankyou

Can you just do me a favor? When you say I "copied" other people's work, can you please at least show me what was copied, where I said it, and where they said it (presumably first?)?

This is something I take great offence at, because people will say something like "I think 500mgs of test is a great first-time cycle".....then when I say the same thing, they say "Look! He copied me!" and frankly, I think that's the most bullshit thing in the world.


Honestly, there is a reason I've come up with so many original theories (GH + T4, Clen + Benadryl, etc...)....and it's not because I copy people. Oh wait...and then there's my nutritional supplement, which I was the first to ever come out with...even though there's 5 companies copying it....maybe that's not original either.

Google anything I've ever said, and see if anyone else said it first, before you make more claims I need to call you out on.

Then provide proof...because I take great offence at this kind of bullshit.

That's ****ing bullshit.

I'll kindly ask you to provide proof of your claims (again), or cease making them.

The truth is....I'm too arrogant to copy anyone else. And once again, provide proof of your claims, please...or stop making them.

[marcus300]

Can you just do me a favor? When you say I "copied" other people's work, can you please at least show me what was copied, where I said it, and where they said it (presumably first?)?

This is something I take great offence at, because people will say something like "I think 500mgs of test is a great first-time cycle".....then when I say the same thing, they say "Look! He copied me!" and frankly, I think that's the most bullshit thing in the world.


Honestly, there is a reason I've come up with so many original theories (GH + T4, Clen + Benadryl, etc...)....and it's not because I copy people. Oh wait...and then there's my nutritional supplement, which I was the first to ever come out with...even though there's 5 companies copying it....maybe that's not original either.

Google anything I've ever said, and see if anyone else said it first, before you make more claims I need to call you out on.

Then provide proof...because I take great offence at this kind of bullshit.

That's ****ing bullshit.

I'll kindly ask you to provide proof of your claims (again), or cease making them.

AR pm and we will discuss it, we dont want this on this thread do we, its my opinion just like many more and if you want to disguss it pm , this is not the place, everybody entilited to there view mine is with the majority,

pm me AR,

[Property of Steroid.com]

AR pm and we will discuss it, we dont want this on this thread do we, its my opinion just like many more and if you want to disguss it pm , this is not the place, everybody entilited to there view mine is with the majority,

pm me AR,

If you want to state something publicly, then not be able to defend it publicly, then don't say it in public.

I have nothing to say to you in private. You can't defend your claims in public and I have nothing to say to you in private.

I can proove everything I claim. You simply can not. You're not really worth my time.

I'll only ask that you cease making claims (especially about me) if you aren't going to post proof of them. I think that's a reasonable request and I hope you honor it.

[jdavis2007]

Ya'll are both super-smart in your own rights. At the end of the day you have to do what works for you as I said earlier. If one of ya'll really thinks the other's theories doesn't hold water, quit trying to convince him. At the end of the day, I don't f#ck with another man's d%ck so why would I really care what that man says,does or thinks. It ultimately does not pertain to me.

[jdavis2007]

Okay...enough of me being on my high-horse...Ha-ha!

[marcus300]

Okay...enough of me being on my high-horse...Ha-ha!

Its cool, thanks for your imput

[twiney]

What does marcus mean when Anthony Roberts here is not the same on other borards? He is diffrent person not what he cliams? I buy roberts book,I like his writings.

[Property of Steroid.com]

What does marcus mean when Anthony Roberts here is not the same on other borards? He is diffrent person not what he cliams? I buy roberts book,I like his writings.

I was wondering the same thing....

I've been published by the three biggest AAS sites on the 'net...plus many, many more...

My nutritional supplement is sold by the biggest bodybuilding site on the 'net..

I was wondering exactly where I lack credibility?

[goose]

I was wondering the same thing....

I've been published by the three biggest AAS sites on the 'net...plus many, many more...

My nutritional supplement is sold by the biggest bodybuilding site on the 'net..

I was wondering exactly where I lack credibility?

Crazy thread

[Property of Steroid.com]

Crazy thread

It bothers me when someone makes claims I feel are unfounded about me. I really only have the simple request to have some sort of proof for them. It really bothers me when I feel like claims are unfounded and attack my character.

It sucks...but even though this is my job, I still take it personally...this isn't some abstract thing to me...it's MY LIFE and my JOB...and I feel like I can't run away from attacks of this nature...I need to engage them fully, and in public.

I hope the members here understand that....and I apologize for taking this off topic.

[Snrf]

It bothers me when someone makes claims I feel are unfounded about me. I really only have the simple request to have some sort of proof for them. It really bothers me when I feel like claims are unfounded and attack my character.

It sucks...but even though this is my job, I still take it personally...this isn't some abstract thing to me...it's MY LIFE and my JOB...and I feel like I can't run away from attacks of this nature...I need to engage them fully, and in public.

I hope the members here understand that....and I apologize for taking this off topic.

I still respect you Anthony, your profiles and writings are an invaluable tool and have probably been used by millions at this point.

[vitor]

I think marcus gets a little "tired" from being called out all the time for yust introducing a diffrent way of cycling, (who woudnt be...)
Then things gets a little personal and Anthony gets a little angry too, but whats the point really...Both men are highly respected, but nothing good will come out of a thread when it gets personal like this...

[marcus300]

I think marcus gets a little "tired" from being called out all the time for yust introducing a diffrent way of cycling, (who woudnt be...)
Then things gets a little personal and Anthony gets a little angry too, but whats the point really...Both men are highly respected, but nothing good will come out of a thread when it gets personal like this...

Thanks Vitor, Anthony knows i cant go public with claims and start stating certain what myself and others who know him personal say and know about him, first its getting personal and the open forum isnt the place because if you read the rules it states no flamming and to be honest its going to get hot,

Ive told AR many times i dont buy him at all anymore, he as no credibility with me what so ever, the forum is for addressing AAS and giving advice, if AR you wish to continue lets go to email or MSM,

All you have done is try with everything i write about short cycles is to discredit it, and at the end of the day you cant, to many BB's say it works,

I am not anymore debating with you on this thread, lets get back to the issue on hand, pm me email or msm if you want to take further,

Now please stop blowing your own trumpet and pull you neck back in and get on with the matter in hand, am not going personal in here,

[vitor]

I agree with Alex that Nadrolone and Trenbolone should probaly be avoided in short cycles(especially deca). Not only b/c the matabolites tend to stay in your system for several months, but also, a hormone that activates the progesterone recepter in men isnt good over the long terms imho. Progestin-drugs can have nasty effects in men when overused., and it will directly inhibit the Hypotalamus according to studies.

Ime starting to realise now what marcus have been saying all along, testosterone is nr1 for muscle grow. Ive wasted enough money on things like eq and t-bol that isnt really that effective for anything. It guess it takes some trial and error for everyone to figure out what works best for their goals.

[marcus300]

I agree with Alex that Nadrolone and Trenbolone should probaly be avoided in short cycles(especially deca). Not only b/c the matabolites tend to stay in your system for several months, but also, a hormone that activates the progesterone recepter in men isnt good over the long terms imho. Progestin-drugs can have nasty effects in men when overused., and it will directly inhibit the Hypotalamus according to studies.

Ime starting to realise now what marcus have been saying all along, testosterone is nr1 for muscle grow. Ive wasted enough money on things like eq and t-bol that isnt really that effective for anything. It guess it takes some trial and error for everyone to figure out what works best for their goals.

I agree with both of you Vitor and alex, when using tren and deca recovery is harder and lengthens the recovery.

[GFLEXXX]

Wow. This thread looked like the whole GenXL vs. **** battle for a page or so Glad it is back on track with good info.

Back on topic, I have been dedicated to short term cycles for a long while now. Priming 4 weeks prior to and 2 weeks into cycle start at this point loading my diet for the duration of cycle. For the most part running high anabolic compounds with only maintainance dose of test derivative for no longer than 6 weeks. Standard PCT, prime again and repeat. Always resulting in much better qaulity gains for me with way less sides and better recovery times then when I used to run long heavy cycles.

Anyways keep the good info. coming on short cycles to help me refine my process..

[marcus300]

Wow. This thread looked like the whole GenXL vs. **** battle for a page or so Glad it is back on track with good info.

Back on topic, I have been dedicated to short term cycles for a long while now. Priming 4 weeks prior to and 2 weeks into cycle start at this point loading my diet for the duration of cycle. For the most part running high anabolic compounds with only maintainance dose of test derivative for no longer than 6 weeks. Standard PCT, prime again and repeat. Always resulting in much better qaulity gains for me with way less sides and better recovery times then when I used to run long heavy cycles.

Anyways keep the good info. coming on short cycles to help me refine my process..

You would have more gains if the diet is increased on day on of the cycle after the prime and not 2 wks into cycle, what kind of gains do you experience?

[GFLEXXX]

Marcus...5'8 191lbs and 11%bf prior to commencing prime. Been a few weeks since completion and 193lbs and 8%bf. and weight still edging up. Very happy with recomposition. Prime brought me down to sub 180 prior to going back up. Give or take 8lbs of lean bm put on and 3% bf reduction, still growing so should increase some more. I ran tbol 40mged and primo 400mgew and 125mg test ew for 6 weeks. i like my blood levels to be up prior to loading diet hence starting to load after 1st week of cycle begins.

Priming begining for next cycle though(wini,primo,test)I'll try loading 1st day and see how it goes...

[pavlenko]

Everything you guys have said is very interesting and educational. The only thing that I don't understand completely is PRIMING. Can some1 explain to me how exactly one would go about doing it? I know Marcus has explained what it is but i still don't fully understand the whole idea about depriving your body of nutrients before the cycle? this is confusing to me. please explain more in detail for me the exact process.

[armbar83]

Everything you guys have said is very interesting and educational. The only thing that I don't understand completely is PRIMING. Can some1 explain to me how exactly one would go about doing it? I know Marcus has explained what it is but i still don't fully understand the whole idea about depriving your body of nutrients before the cycle? this is confusing to me. please explain more in detail for me the exact process.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=231569

[marcus300]

Everything you guys have said is very interesting and educational. The only thing that I don't understand completely is PRIMING. Can some1 explain to me how exactly one would go about doing it? I know Marcus has explained what it is but i still don't fully understand the whole idea about depriving your body of nutrients before the cycle? this is confusing to me. please explain more in detail for me the exact process.

There are many different ways to prime depending on the indivduals body but ive found this one exceptional for creating the anabolic environment and for me the best way to prime (carb cycling),

Dont set a target weight for the prime, the prime isnt really about weight loss its about priming the body for the intense cycle/training, do the prime as slow as possible the body reacts better if its done this way and will hold on to muscle tissue, make sure you prime from the maintance diet what you have now which as been constant for the last few wks, the maintanance diet is a diet what your stable with your not gaining weight or lossing weight,

Dont do anything drastic slowly build the enviroment for growth, trust me do this part spot on and the gains are untrue, the body only grows in short bursts this is a natural thing from babys to teenagers, so go with the flow of the body just create the body ready for the growth and very intense training,


Once you have your maintanance diet your work of this by doing 3-5 days low carb 40% less than your maintenance diet then followed by 1 day high carb 15% higher than the maintenance diet, you will have to adjust the low carb days in length to suit your body but don't go near 7 days low carbs, a common problem with reducing carbs is that over time the metabolic rate can and will begin to adapt, when carbs stays low for an extended period of time usually at the 7 day mark and up, fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids, levels of lipoprotien lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop, these both effect overall basal metabolism and are part of the starvation response which off sets reductions in energy intake and is very common to muscle wastage, so adjust to your body's response but in my opinion don't go 7 days or more keep it between 3-5 days low carbs (40% less),

The one high carb day should be introduced around 3-5 day mark of low carbs, the high carb day at around day 3-5 this interrupts the starvation response which restores thyroid levels back to normal while also suppressing the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein ( which rises after day 7 of a lower carb intake) which results in no muscle tissue wastage,

Also if you catch this right at when the glycogen levels drop which is around 3-5 day mark and you follow this by the high carb day with an increase of calories even higher than what the body had been use to previous to the reduction, the body responds by increasing thermogenesis which in turn helps the whole process,

Everybody is different but ive got alot of personally logs/reports which show muscle wastage on carb cycling at the 7 day mark and up, the body re-adjusts itself at this stage and holds onto the fat cells while using the precious muscle tissue as energy, which in turn the individual will lose more muscle tissue than stopping short this process at 3-5 day mark of the low carb,

The key is tricking the metabolism into losing fat instead of muscle tissue by rotating carbs but not letting the body trigger the starvation response, i must stress again that before any type of priming you must of establish a basic diet which you have ran for a number of weeks in where the body isn't gaining or losing any size just maintaining what its got, this is very important because this established diet is what you work off so we get the body to respond the best by dropping bf and holding onto muscle tissue,

As you prime your body it goes into a environment were muscle tissue can be built very fast, just look how much you put on after a contest, this whole process you take advantage of and put it together with a short cycle and hit all comounds hard and fast, an increase in calories is needed everyday of the cycle, you must support the high amount of AAS or moderate amount of AAS and let the body take advantage of the growth window and spurt, as soon as you start the cycle your body is very anabolic so take advantage of this and hit it hard, growth comes on fast, at around day 18-20 the appetite starts to slow this is the body's response to the increase in calories so at about a week before this start to take B12 at 1000mcg ed and you will get more growth out of the cycle, normally for up to around day 30+ ,

As for the training for the cycle and not the prime its got to be very intense heavy drop sets to failure(DY style) this kind of training you cant keep up nor can you keep it up mentally this is why the whole cycle and training is for around 30 days, even after the cycle as ended you cant still carry on gaining weight because the body slows down and fully repairs itself due to the very intense way its been training, its amazing but true many do experience further gains after cycle ends, the body still grows because of the drop in intense training triggers growth through the rest its getting, the whole process is amazing and the feeling is untrue, i still get gains like when i first started with this way of training and cycling,

If the correct prime for your body is done and the right compounds are used for a short period you will never go back to the norm of cycling.

Also if possible make sure your on a low dose gh throughout the prime, slowly confuse the body into burning fat as fuel then restore the gyl store with the 1 day high carb, but this 1 day wont fill them up only restore abit so next time you low carb for 3-5 day even more fat will be burnt and the process of creating an anabolic enviroment is getting acheived.

Only explaining what ive found to be the best way of priming, there are many ways, if you think thats the best for you excellent, record the results daily and listen to the body but trust me it as to be done slowly and you dont want your body to shift into starvation mode,

Now Imagen doing some form of priming over a long period and not as harsh as contest diet, the difference is that the high carb day restore the gly levels slightly and are not always depleted so the metabolic rate doesn't shift, thats important to holding onto valuable muscle tissue, when you contest diet you lose muscle tissue so when the rebound affect comes you seem to gain back what you lost and alittle bit more, so think if you put you body in the same environment as a contest diet without losing the muscle tissue?? now when the rebound affect comes the muscle tissue what you put on is fresh and new, but Ive found you have to use everything else aswell hit the body hard and fast all at once and let the whole process of growth take place,

This process coupled with a designed cycle plus high levels of gh and everything else what makes a difference in you body to make it grow, the end result is quality muscle tissue grown at a rapid rate, just like when you was a teenager when you jumped height and size in two wks then nothing for a month then another jump in size, thats how the body grows, use it, use the prime and take advantage,

[bigstylios]

Great Post

[jagdpanther]

I'm moving towards shorter cycles as I have noticed from my own experiance the longer the cycle and longer the pct. Furthermore i get feeling down during PCT, and I've noticed the longer I'm on the lower and longer I sink.
HDL/LDL ratios are another huge concern for me. Glad the post is here -Thanks