"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

[Mammon]

yep...

[murphylee]

alright man thanks for your help.

[*RAGE*]

bump bump

[murphylee]

haha i can't not laugh at that avatar

[wakeskate22]

very informational. good post war. bump

[UrRoyalHighness]

bump

[murphylee]

I just thought I would come in here and let ya'll know I upped my dosage of .25 adex EOD to .5 mg adex every day and my gyno symptoms have subsided in just a day and a half

[dude99]

i am trying to get rid of some gyno ive had for a few years now....letro never worked for me.....should i start nolva @ 40mg right away? or do you taper up like you do with letro?

also is there any sort of PCT for the nova? or when symptoms subside, or when i give up, is there anything i need to take? and should i taper off the nolva?

thanks guys


ooo yea one last question....i have some liquid nolva from the sponsor is here that is about a year old. does this stuff expire? or should i order a new bottle....thanks again

[murphylee]

The gyno you've had for a few years now won't go away with the nolva, the only thing that probably would have worked was the letro. The longer that stuff stays around, the harder it is to get rid of it.

[dude99]

i understand that it wont go away completely but the studies that he posted show that people have been able to reduce which would be fine with me because its not that bad to begin with.


anyone else? war?

thanks

[wakeskate22]

^^^^ i would like to know as well

[Edgar]

read all post and didnt see any talk about Proviron wich at 100mg ed can be a great addition and its fine with Nolvadex. thought this would be a good point to make. cheers

[CptAmericaX]

<--- Is a newb just wanted to say thanks for the great oist its good research and added knowledge for Pre-cycle planning.

[murphylee]

glad to see this is a sticky!

[MASTER]

Raloxifene looks considerably more promising than nolva. Also, there are many studies proving the effectiveness of nolva on gyno that has been present for 2 years or longer. There is a specific study on ralox and nolva that was purely used on those with puberty induced gyno, the ralox patients had all had it for at least 3 years!

[mind4]

Great read

[Friend]

How do you detect gyno? I've read your nipples become sensitive, painful to touch and they get larger. Is this right? And so if i don't experience sensitive or larger nipples during my cycle, i don't have to worry about gyno?

[WARMachine]

Sorry for the lack of responses guys.

Im very busy at the moment, but will do a better job of answering questions, as well as continuing to add to the thread.

Again, sorry fellas. I promise to work on it this week.

-WAR

[xo3et]

Just read through this and covered a few questions i was curious about

Thanks WarMachine, was a joy to read.

[WARMachine]

^ No problem bro.

Hopefully additons will be done by Tuesday. Just finishing writing them up and researching a little more.

Also sending out some PMs to experts in particular areas for help.

[Swifto]

I dont know if I had a PM coming my way, but I'll add what I can...



It seems it is possible to reverse already formed gyno from puberty, but I'm not sure if gyno caused by androgens would be different. Here's a study that proves obliterating estrogen can cause mammary gland apoptosis.

Mammary Gland Cell Death Also Involves Lysosomal Autophagy
Reginald Halaby
Department of Biology & Molecular Biology Montclair State University Upper Montclair, NJ 07043

ABSTRACT:

The mammary gland undergoes apoptosis when estrogen ablation occurs, either naturally or enforced. The gland is known to execute the apoptotic process post weaning. Although the involuting mammary gland displays the characteristic biochemical features of apoptosis, including DNA fragmentation, chromatin condensation, and the formation of apoptotic bodies, it also shows evidence of an autophagic death. In this report, apoptosis of the gland was induced by removing the pups from their nursing mothers. In particular, we show that lysosomes increased in size and number, and moved from basal to apical regions in dying rat mammary gland cells. Lysosomal enzyme activities were significantly greater in degenerating mammary gland (day 4 post weaning) epithelial cells when compared with day 0 gland cells. Moreover, these hydrolases were responsible for degrading cytosolic and nuclear components, and thus the whole cell. Taken together, our results demonstrate that the mammary gland dies by lysosomal autophagy in addition to apoptosis during post-lactational involution. Our studies indicate that the lysosomal compartment may serve as an important target organelle for the creation of specific, effective, and novel therapies for breast cancer.



ERalpha is responsible for growth and proliferation of ductal and glandular growth, which must be reduced. Rolax and Tamox both have a binding affinity to ERalpha, primarliy.

It seems ERbeta can actually slow growth and proliferation of breast tissue and has done when conducting studies done when ERalpha is present.

However, it seems some compounds (Epistane) that bind to ERbeta offer benifit too. How? I dont know yet? Maybe some tissue is primarily ERbeta and when this is reduced (using Epistane/Havoc) the tissue and/or gland is reduced in size, possibly why some users report Epistane/Havoc got rid or reduced their gyno...?

http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/3/465

I'm going to be running some Epistane soon and will combine it with Tamox at 10-20mg/ED to try to reverse some gyno I have (although I think surgery is my only option) and get a cycle out of it.

Lastly, for reversal, a DHT based topical is needed IMO. Something like Formistane or Targex applied to the area where gyno is.

It should also be noted that apoptosis and regression of the tissue making gyno, wont happen overnight. Most studies on pubescent boys using Tamox and Ralox, was around 3-9 months long. Not 2-3 weeks.

You should also favour a testosterone to estrogen ratio. Testosterone needs to be present too.

So...

Tamox + Epistane/Havoc + Topical Formistane

[WARMachine]

You indeed have a PM coming your way bro!

And that post is exactly why!

Kudos my man! Ill be hitting you up shortly to review some things for me.

-WAR

[peachfuzz]

Useless thread...went through three pages and didnt find one mention of PGCL. I thought this thread was comrehensive. I was duped!

[kwise]

Can you stack andropen 275 and test 400 if so what kind of gains

[WARMachine]

^ Please start your own thread in Q&A.

Useless thread...went through three pages and didnt find one mention of PGCL. I thought this thread was comrehensive. I was duped!

^ You.

Please burn in hell.

lol

[peachfuzz]

^ You.

Please burn in hell.

lol

Nor did I find mentioned the obvious "perform your own gyno surgery," some of our members have had great success with this method so i feel it deserves a mention.

[peachfuzz]

wrong thread...start your own in the question and answer section and post some stats if you want anybody to help you...

[WARMachine]

^ Well im planning on adding that. As well as the "preform your own brain surgery" addition i was writing.

Wanna be the Guniea Pig Peachy?

[peachfuzz]

[WARMachine]

^ Some sick people out there....

[murphylee]

no way is that for f'n serious?

[TheCoZ]

Hey guys, i'm new to this site. I just had a quick question. I've had gyno for 2 years now, i stopped taking prohormones in the beginning of 2007. I went to the doctor and he was gonna take them out for me but then told me that there was a chance of deformation. That was a year and a half ago and since then I haven't been insured because I went off my parent's insurance (graduated college). Would Tamox or Letro help get rid of gyno even though it has been 2 years since i got it?

[8iron]

Hey guys, i'm new to this site. I just had a quick question. I've had gyno for 2 years now, i stopped taking prohormones in the beginning of 2007. I went to the doctor and he was gonna take them out for me but then told me that there was a chance of deformation. That was a year and a half ago and since then I haven't been insured because I went off my parent's insurance (graduated college). Would Tamox or Letro help get rid of gyno even though it has been 2 years since i got it?

warmachine will be on here usually somtime this evening he can help u with this...but if im reading swifto post right up there, it could be possible looks like it could take up to 3 to 9 months of running the stuff............

[WARMachine]

Hey guys, i'm new to this site. I just had a quick question. I've had gyno for 2 years now, i stopped taking prohormones in the beginning of 2007. I went to the doctor and he was gonna take them out for me but then told me that there was a chance of deformation. That was a year and a half ago and since then I haven't been insured because I went off my parent's insurance (graduated college). Would Tamox or Letro help get rid of gyno even though it has been 2 years since i got it?

Read Swiftos post at the top of this page. Its exactly why he wrote it up.

Post again if you have anymore questions.

[NR2.0]

Thanks WarM. Unfortunatly this has just made me more confused!

Think I am more than likely confusing myself, although I am now more educated on all forms of Gyno so not a bad thing.

Thanks and Bump

[WARMachine]

Answered your PM.

[cloud_strife]

Nolvadex doesn't reverse gyno, I agree

[LATS60]

Nolvadex doesn't reverse gyno, I agree

LOL. Can you read?
WAR, all that hard work and now we know that nolva doesn't reverse gyno,
all we had to do was ask cloud_strife.
Keep up the good work, i'll be in touch soon, RE: articles & Clomid.

[WARMachine]

LOL. Can you read?
WAR, all that hard work and now we know that nolva doesn't reverse gyno,
all we had to do was ask cloud_strife.
Keep up the good work, i'll be in touch soon, RE: articles & Clomid.

Aw man... For sure buddy, i apperciate it. Let me know whenever you get a chance my brother!

[bighital]

Great thread--You know your shit....