hey anyone who ran clomid and nolva for their PCT - did you experience any lethargy?
Junior Member
hey anyone who ran clomid and nolva for their PCT - did you experience any lethargy?
Anabolic Member
Nope, sure didn't.
New Member
just in case anybody missed my post in the PCT section....tamoxifen (nolva) is a cancer cauing carcinogen?
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/known.pdf
Well my first question is WTF? My second question is I know 6-oxo is supposedly not good enough for PCT....what about running clomid and 6-oxo for PCT. **** this nolva ****. I already ran a 4week cycle of it, i better not get ****ing cancer.
Member
yeah, so is alcohol cosumption. big deal. that link you provided also states that there is conclusive evidence that nolva helps eliminate cancer. i think you're blowing this out of proportion.Originally Posted by DustinLati
Junior Member
thanks whitey ... must be this cold i'm coming down with.
Member
i'm on both right now and no lethargy.
Member
just about everything that isnt done in moderation does.
tobacco prouducts, heating food up in styrofoam,breathing in smoke,etc
Anabolic Member
Sure, bro. Good luck with that - couldn't have come at a worse time.
Associate Member
What about Omnadren250?
Anabolic Member
Omnadren is almost identical to Sustanon. Rule of thumb is you need to inject more often than 1x/wk th keep levels stable due to the shorter esters in the blend. Same rule of thumb applies for PCT after last injection as Cyp or Enanthate.
Hope that helps
Associate Member
So, ultimately this is ok?
Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t / 500 mg of Omna250 (250 on Monday, 250 on Thursday) / 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract
Weeks 5-8: 500 mg test (Omna250)/ Milk Thistle 1000 mg ED
Weeks 9-10: 500 mg test (Omna250)
PCT: 2 weeks after last injection? or isnt it 18 days with omna?
Clomid/Nolva therapy.
Last edited by Reelmuscle; 02-02-2005 at 11:13 PM.
Anabolic Member
Well, this is a topic of some debate. Answers range from 14 to 18 to 21 days. Part of this is because there is some disagreement whether Omna and Sust are the same exact compound. Some say yes, some say no.
It appears however that Sustanon contains: 30mg Testosterone Propionate, 60mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mg Testosterone Isocaproate, 100mg Testosterone Decanoate.
Omnadren, however, contains 30mg Testosterone Propionate, 60mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mg Testosterone Isohexanoate, 100mg Testosterone Hexanoate.
The half-life of the Hexanoate ester is 9 days, while the Decanoate is 15 days. Logically, then, PCT for Omna should begin earlier than for Sust. Ideally, this would all be avoided by running a shorter ester like Prop in place of the Omna for the last 4 weeks of the cycle, then starting PCT 3 days after last injection. This would also avoid the dreaded receding test levels while estrogen is still high - murder on gains and potential sides.
If you must run this all the way through with Omna, I would at least begin with anti-e's within 5-6 days of your last injection to combat the estrogen levels. I 'd probably go with anastrazole (l-dex).
Senior Member
Just need to put down the author David Tolson, and a link to the page, as it could be constured as plagerism, since the post gives no credit to the author.
Senior Member
Like so:
http://www.*************.com/?ingredients_id=38
Methyl-1-Testosterone
By David Tolson
There are no products to list in this category.
Methyl 1-testosterone, or 17aa-1-testosterone, is the methylated version of the steroid 1-testosterone. This structural modification makes steroids much more orally bioavailable by inhibiting breakdown in the liver. Although it has only been widely available for a short period of time, feedback on this compound indicates that it may be the most effective legal prohormone/steroid product on the market regardless of delivery method, and it is hands down the most effective oral product. On the other hand, most users report a wealth of side effects, and this compound is not to be taken lightly. It does not have a long history of use or a well-established safety profile, and proper precautions should be taken.
The profile of methyl 1-test is similar to that of 1-test – it does not convert to estrogen, and it is highly anabolic and moderately androgenic (less than 1-test). When compared to orally administered methyltestosterone, methyl 1-test is 910-1600% as anabolic and 100-220% as androgenic.
The side effects reported by users of methyl 1-test are many and individual reactions vary considerably. The most commonly reported side effect is lethargy, which can range from mild to severe. Other common side effects include increased blood pressure, bloating, joint pains, cramps, mild headaches, insomnia, aggressiveness, and irritability. Many users also find that methyl 1-test decreases appetite, which can be harmful or beneficial depending on one's goals. These side effects can be reduced by lowering dosage or taking smaller doses more frequently. Combining it with another androgen (such as 4-AD) may also help, but feedback on this is limited.
Another concern with methyl 1-test (and methylated steroids in general) is hepatotoxicity. Although this tends to be exaggerated, it is still prudent to take certain precautions. First and foremost, other substances that are toxic to the liver (such as alcohol) should be avoided to avoid placing extra stress on the liver. If methyl 1-test is stacked, it would be best to stack it with something other than an oral steroid/prohormone, such as a transdermal. Milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, and N-acetyl-cysteine are commonly recommended to help protect the liver. For further information on 17aa steroids and hepatotoxicity, see the following article:
Hepatotoxicity: Fact or Fiction, by Roy Harper
When taking methyl 1-test, it is best to start out with at least a week at a dose of 5-10 mg to see how one reacts. Many users find this range to be effective, while others feel the ideal amount is 20-40 mg. It comes down to the experience, goals, and individual reaction. Many find a lower dose to be just as effective as a higher one, but with less side effects. With a compound such as this, it is generally best to err on the side of caution, especially for those that are less experienced with steroids. Most seem to find their ideal dose to be in the 10-30 mg range. Cycle length should be kept short, in the range of 1-4 weeks. Finally, it is especially important to take adequate time off after each cycle with this substance to allow the body to recover.
If you have any questions or comments regarding this article, please email dvdtlsn@*************.com.
No part of this article may be reproduced in any form without the permission of David Tolson or Mike McCandless.
New Member
I'm on my first week of pct from M1t and I ran out of trib, is there anything I can substitute for a few days untill my order gets here? or will I be okay with out it for a few days?
Senior Member
Tribulus is not a sufficient PCT.
New Member
I know thats not all I'm taking , but it ran out and I was wondering if I will be ok with out it for a few days, I am taking clomid and Nolvadex also.
Also My clen is 30ml 200mcg/ml so is .20ml enough for results I'm trying to get cut after my m1t bulking cycle, but no noticable sides.
Senior Member
clomid and nolvadex are fine, tribulus will have little impact on PCT IMO.
Associate Member
So in conclusion, is it 14 days with omna or 18 days? What would you recommend?
New Member
Shiot there have been a lot of posts since I was last on. 4 grams a day of tribulus? ED on my bottle is 3 times a day at 500 mg a piece.. should I bump it up??? I took 650 mg a day last cycle and it worked out alright but if you think I should up it to 5 so be it. I never found anything about what dosage to take while on cycle so I just followed the directions on the bottle.
Yea in the weight gainer, I think it is right about 900-1000 calories, I haven't been able to gain weight for the life of me and everybody says Im not getting enough calories so Im going all out. It's day 4 today, I weighed in at 180 yesterday and I was 175 on Monday when I started my cycle, not to attribute that to the M1T but it's nice to see the jump whatever it is. I've been using the weight gainer recipe about two weeks every day, twice a day, to try to get 3000-4000 calories a day.
Last edited by Bleche; 02-03-2005 at 02:14 PM.
King of Supplements
I took that part of my post from a website containing the characteristics of methyl-1-testosterone, which didn't state the author. The bulk of the post was just what i wrote off the top off my head.
New Member
Hey NSA my clen is 30ml 200mcg/ml so is .20ml enough for results I'm trying to get cut up after my m1t bulking cycle and get my bf% down, but I would like to minimize the noticable sides. or is that amount not even going to give me any results?
Anabolic Member
And a good post it is, bro. 22 pages can't be wrong!
King of Supplements
Thats a good starting dose. But work your way up to a reasonable dose where there are not many sides. Search for clen handbook.
Senior Member
I wasnt bashing ou NSA, I was just tryin gto help you avoid legal trouble, as Tolson has been known to be nitpicky about things like this. At least this helps the endless M 1T threads. I lovw M 1T myself. I have taken everything from anadrol, dbol, winstrol, and all injectables, and M 1T is my favorite oral next to anadrol. Right now Im on 50mgs a day, and i swear it almost seems as I can add muscle every workout.
King of Supplements
Im not making anything from this. In fact no one even knows who i am. Im just a poor college student trying to get into med school, i doubt anyone is going to legally go after someone in my position.
Associate Member
Nsa? Whitey?
Senior Member
Just treat it like 14 day half life, but run PCT therapy an extra 4 days, just in case it is indeed 18 days. Cover your ass all around.
Anabolic Member
Bro, I don't have a positive answer for you because like I said before, there's a lot of disagreement on this and I've never run it myself. I much prefer single esters, for exactly this reason. That said, IMO start no later than 14 days after last inj., given the 9-day half life of the longest ester in the blend.
For PCT, especially because of the potential inaccuracy of the timing, I would scratch the 300/100/50 clomid method - meaning don't use 300mg the first day; start at 100mg and run it longer - say 10 days before bumping down to 50mg. When I run my PCT I use 100mg clomid for 15 days, then 75 for the remainder, but that is just my personal preference. As an additional precaution, I would begin the anti-e's maybe 3-5 days before PCT to reduce estrogen as your test levels are dropping.
Hope that helps.
Senior Member
I hate high dose clomid, I recover better with nolvadex anyway. But if you must use clomid, I would run a slightly lower dose, and add nolvadex to it. That is unless you like crying during chic flicks. Whitey basically spelled out what I was trying to get at in my post above, but my wording sucked.
Anabolic Member
LOL...The clomid cries.You're right - I hear that from a lot of bros, I guess I'm lucky it has never affected me like that. What it does do is make me break out into about a thousand zits - and that makes me want to cry.
New Member
forgive the ignorance. if i use m1t, will i test pos. in my test 1 month from now?
Anabolic Member
What test are you taking? There is no test that I know of that screens for M1T.
New Member
thats my question. i play pro baseball. the league is coming down hard on steroids....and i dont know if m1t is a steroid or not. i mwould think not, seeing as i bought it over the counter, but i wanted to be sure
Anabolic Member
Well, yes it is a steroid, but not one that was screened for, to my knowledge. As of last month, it has officially been scheduled with AAS, so it is illegal to purchase (and possess). This is something you'll def. want to research, since it is of such importance to you. What type of club do you play for?
New Member
thanks for the help. guess ill call the company . the number is on the bottle. thing is i wont trust him if he says" oh yeah- go right ahead" .
i signed this year with the pittsburgh pirates
Anabolic Member
Well, sh!t man, congratulations! I don't think calling the company will help but it's worth a try. Depending on the manufacturer, there may be nobody on the other end of the line.
Why don't you post your question in the Sports Forum here? There are a lot of athletes here who have to pass drug tests, maybe someone can help with your question. Good luck brother!
Associate Member
Thanks guy...much appreciated.
Anabolic Member
No problem, bro. Hope everything works out.
New Member
Hey NSA I' on my 5th day of PCT and I just realized that because of a mistake in measuring I have been takin way way to little of my clomid and Novalex than what you recomended in your sample cycle I was following. My question is should I just start taking the right dosage for the days I'm on in PCT or start PCT days over and beging with the big dosage of clomid like you suggest on the first day of PCT?
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