All you need to know about GYNO.

[Crazyindagym]

The cycle seems ok, but I dont know much about oxodrol 12, I would just run Test E if I was you instead of using orals. But it seems ok, I would use clomid with your nolva in PCT and forget about these OTC crap products.

Thanks for the response man.
Well, I was thinking about the clomid, but have read lots of threads with people who have had vision issues. I realize that everyone is different, but I'm kinda nervous to take the chance which is why I was going to settle for the reboundxt, BUT then again it is "OTC" so your probably right with it being crap. As far as the test E, I'm not an injectable person...I'd personally rather take the orals+ I am only doing a 3 week LIGHT cycle so liver damage will be at a minimum.

Now I know that clomid/nolvadex are very similar and are both SERM'S, but please correct me if I'm wrong...the only reason to take clomid along with nolva would be to boost the natty test levels up???--cuz nolva is more effective at preventing estrogen sides and adding the clomid in this respect would only add to estrogen protection, correct???

One more question if you don't mind...Like I stated before, I beleive that my gyno symptoms that I got from oxodrol was progesterone induced as I did not have hard lumps but just puffyness,itchyness, and erect nipples. Would nolva still be ok to use to prevent gyno flare up or should I look into a prog blocker?

[C_Bino]

Thanks for the response man.
Well, I was thinking about the clomid, but have read lots of threads with people who have had vision issues. I realize that everyone is different, but I'm kinda nervous to take the chance which is why I was going to settle for the reboundxt, BUT then again it is "OTC" so your probably right with it being crap. As far as the test E, I'm not an injectable person...I'd personally rather take the orals+ I am only doing a 3 week LIGHT cycle so liver damage will be at a minimum.Ya most of the OTC stuff is just really not up to par, and we need something better when we are dealing with steroids. Vision problem is, like you said purely personal, and not a sure thing but does happen.

Now I know that clomid/nolvadex are very similar and are both SERM'S, but please correct me if I'm wrong...the only reason to take clomid along with nolva would be to boost the natty test levels up???--cuz nolva is more effective at preventing estrogen sides and adding the clomid in this respect would only add to estrogen protection, correct???Ya clomid helps to bring test back up to normal range when you come off, but nolva would be a better choice for an anti-e on cycle.

One more question if you don't mind...Like I stated before, I beleive that my gyno symptoms that I got from oxodrol was progesterone induced as I did not have hard lumps but just puffyness,itchyness, and erect nipples. Would nolva still be ok to use to prevent gyno flare up or should I look into a prog blocker?

If its prog gyno then yes use at least b6 or something of the sort. Bromo is the main one people use, I use b6 and never have a prob but everyone is dif. That being said if you use letro on cycle you wont have to worry about either, with no estrogen there can be no progesterone gyno either.

[Cocklyaev]

or better yet....is it better to taper up to 2.5mg from 0.25mg of letro till the gyno is gone, and then just maintain at .25mg or .5mg, before the cycle, or during the cycle? then continuing on to pct

[antijavier]

Hey big C.. what would you reccomend i do if i didn't take care of my gyno problem from my last cycle? it was 3 years ago.. and i still have moderate gyno..

[IBdmfkr]

After reading through this thread again I realize many ppl either don't know what AI's are so they grew tits and now want them to go away or their is a spreading epidemic of bitchtits that is going around.

[dirtyvegas]

vary nice

[Natural1]

Alright Bino, Ive been using the letro @ 2.5 for about a week now, not seeing results..... Should I still continue at this dosage until I do see something? How long before I should just call it quits and start to taper down?

[C_Bino]

Alright Bino, Ive been using the letro @ 2.5 for about a week now, not seeing results..... Should I still continue at this dosage until I do see something? How long before I should just call it quits and start to taper down?

Run it for as long as you feel pretty much, sometimes it can take a while depending on the circumstances, big k.l.g has some good info that I will be looking into and posting in teh enar future about long term gyno cases.

A week isnt too long though, I would run it a month before I gave up, it does take a little while to stabilize.

[Natural1]

Run it for as long as you feel pretty much, sometimes it can take a while depending on the circumstances, big k.l.g has some good info that I will be looking into and posting in teh enar future about long term gyno cases.

A week isnt too long though, I would run it a month before I gave up, it does take a little while to stabilize.

Sounds good, should I remain at the same (2.5/day) dosage? How much do you this this is affecting my gains right now?

[HUNTER1]

Good post C

[novicenovicen]

blimp

[splash]

Bino,
I have a question about this last part:

QUOTE FROM "All you need to know about GYNO"

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

I'm NOT going to do anymore cycles. I'm 40yrs. 210# 6'2" I did 3 cycles of M1-Test 4 weeks on 4 weeks off like the bottle suggested. Never did any PCT. That was 4-6 months ago then I went to the Arnold Classic and got duffle bag of stuff and just started taking it... I got NO idea what I took... I know you don't have to tell me.... Now just take whey protein, NO2 products and energy drinks. So the Gyno is a delayed event. One nipple has a lump that is palpable 1cm x 1cm. The other nipple feels like a lump might be trying to start.

THE QUESTION IS: Is the nolva needed after coming down from the letro if there isn't going to be another cycle? Thanks in advance!

[C_Bino]

Bino,
THE QUESTION IS: Is the nolva needed after coming down from the letro if there isn't going to be another cycle? Thanks in advance!

Yes, this will help to reduce chances of estro-rebound. Your body doesnt know if you are going to run another cycle or not right? So eitherway it will give you an estrogen rebound, whether you are thinking of doing another cycle or not.

[venomm]

Great post and almost answer all of my Questions that i have in my head about gyno and AI's and SERM.its a great help for some1 like me who is going to start his first cycle..i just have 1 more q, as you said 'You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood'. As a matter of fact i am gonna start m cycle approx 2 weeks from tomm...so should i start taking letro from lets say tomm @ .25mgEd
thnx Bino for the great post once again.

[kesh227]

Hey Bino,

I have a question about running letro before and during the cycle. should I keep the letro at .25mgED from two weeks out until the end of the cycle, or should i move up once the cycle starts? Also, I was told to run Nolva and Adex during the cycle, are you saying I should just run letro instead? Finally if I do run letro,should I run it upto the last week before pct, and then commence with regular pct (clomid)? Thanks very much for your help.

[C_Bino]

Hey Bino,

I have a question about running letro before and during the cycle. should I keep the letro at .25mgED from two weeks out until the end of the cycle, or should i move up once the cycle starts? Also, I was told to run Nolva and Adex during the cycle, are you saying I should just run letro instead? Finally if I do run letro,should I run it upto the last week before pct, and then commence with regular pct (clomid)? Thanks very much for your help.

Keep it consistant throughout that cycle. .25mg ED is fine, no need to increase it at any point unless you notice yourself starting to get gyno. And yes what Im saying is that Letro can replace the need for Arimidex and Nolvadex. Also run it right up to PCT.

[marcus300]

Bump

[eljugo16]

great info def on the top of my list... hopefully won't have to use it anytime soon

[marcus300]

|^^^^^^^

[castertroy]

well i've been using the letro to get rid of my bad case of gyno and its slowly going away. i had guno for a few weeks from a cycle and im in my 2nd week of using letro and its working fine. the lump was getting pretty big fast, and even doubled in size within 2 weeks, but now thanks to this post its down to a small pees size. which is about 1 third of what it was a week ago.
i dont wanna jinx it but by this pace, it should be gone 100% in 2 weeks max.
i cant say how thankfull i am for this post, it was starting to look real bad.
extra advice:
remeber to do all the reseach u can before cycles, all these cases of gyno could have been avoided before hand with enough research. i didnt know one thing about taking nolva between cycle and pct and i cought a bad case of gyno right away. save yourself some hardship and $$$ and make sure u know how to protect urself from gyno and anything else during and after cycle.

thanks again bino, i'll let u know if it goes away completely in the next couple weeks.

[C_Bino]

well i've been using the letro to get rid of my bad case of gyno and its slowly going away. i had guno for a few weeks from a cycle and im in my 2nd week of using letro and its working fine. the lump was getting pretty big fast, and even doubled in size within 2 weeks, but now thanks to this post its down to a small pees size. which is about 1 third of what it was a week ago.
i dont wanna jinx it but by this pace, it should be gone 100% in 2 weeks max.
i cant say how thankfull i am for this post, it was starting to look real bad.
extra advice:
remeber to do all the reseach u can before cycles, all these cases of gyno could have been avoided before hand with enough research. i didnt know one thing about taking nolva between cycle and pct and i cought a bad case of gyno right away. save yourself some hardship and $$$ and make sure u know how to protect urself from gyno and anything else during and after cycle.
thanks again bino, i'll let u know if it goes away completely in the next couple weeks.

Great advice bro, thanks for posting your results, Im glad it is working out for you. Good luck with the rest.

[highnmighty]

Hey Bino, Im actually running 20mgs Aromasin right now on day 12. Im not on a cycle just running it solo and just added 10mgs eod of Nolva. I want to lean out as much as possible before I start my Tbol cycle. I have leaned out a bit, however, if I keep taking it will I lean out more. I am at 15% bf and holding it mostly in my stomach and love handles. I want to get rid of this. Should I run the Aromasin another 2 weeks or so, or should I switch to Letro and then back to Aromasin at the end to combat rebound estro? See I wasn't sure if Aromasin has the ability to penetrate fat cells like Letro.

[C_Bino]

Hey Bino, Im actually running 20mgs Aromasin right now on day 12. Im not on a cycle just running it solo and just added 10mgs eod of Nolva. I want to lean out as much as possible before I start my Tbol cycle. I have leaned out a bit, however, if I keep taking it will I lean out more. I am at 15% bf and holding it mostly in my stomach and love handles. I want to get rid of this. Should I run the Aromasin another 2 weeks or so, or should I switch to Letro and then back to Aromasin at the end to combat rebound estro? See I wasn't sure if Aromasin has the ability to penetrate fat cells like Letro.

I made a post earlier in this thread about weight loss and letro. I will repost it for you. My position on it is that it really wont give you teh reults you want...

As for the question about fat-loss (sorry I missed it before, i accidentally skimmed over it). The only thing I can say is that femara has been used in studies to treat obesity. Since serum testosterone can be somewhat lower in obese males due to the slowed synthesis of LH and FSH production, letro has been shown to normalize these serum test levels, as we all know LH and FSH increase with the use of letro and testosterone obviously aids in weight loss we can assume that letro can be used to help with weightloss. However, testosterone levels are only diminished in cases of fairly severe obesity. For most people just looking to lean up more on this site I somewhat question the ability for letro to do the trick so to speak.

If you do want to give this a try I see no problem with doing it off cycle, the normal dose in studies of obesity and testosterone profiles was again 2.5mg per day.

Anyways, to finish off I would honestly say you would be better off using an ECA stack or clen (even though Im not a big fan), over letro. If you are on cycle you could try using letro even if you dont need an AI to see if there is any difference but I would say again running test (usually at a minimum dose of 500mg per week) the impact of letro on weight loss will be slight to say the least, imo you wont be able to notice a difference.

[highnmighty]

Ok thank you, so I will stick with the Aromasin for another 2 weeks and actually just bought an ECA stack and will start tomorrow. Im sure with this combo of an AI/SERM/ECA stack I should loose some body fat then I will start my cycle.

Excellent thread by the way, lot's of good info here!!!

[FranKieC]

bump

[55CID]

Goood work! BUMP! BUMP!

[skr0w]

Bino,
If someone is doing a 12 week cycle of deca (weeks 1-12)300mg Sus (1-8)250mg. Can you use .25 of letro the whole cycle to keep from getting gyno. Or is that too long. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[C_Bino]

Bino,
If someone is doing a 12 week cycle of deca (weeks 1-12)300mg Sus (1-8)250mg. Can you use .25 of letro the whole cycle to keep from getting gyno. Or is that too long. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Yes you can run it the entire way through, I have run it for longer.

[speakerman]

Definite lump, but no pain when squeezing it or any obvious sensitivity... gyno or no? Just 8 days into 15mg/ED Pheraplex.

[C_Bino]

Definite lump, but no pain when squeezing it or any obvious sensitivity... gyno or no? Just 8 days into 15mg/ED Pheraplex.

Well if there is a lump that wasnt there before than definitely your gland is being enlarged and you will want to do something about it. Are you running any estrogen protection now? If not WHY THE HELL NOT?

[TheSentinal]

Bino - Seems like guys worried about gyno are doing 1000 mg or more weekly. You have any knowledge of where gyno is more probable depending on dose or type of gear? I just havn't seen people talk about this at lower doses like 500 mg per week. What do you think?

[C_Bino]

Bino - Seems like guys worried about gyno are doing 1000 mg or more weekly. You have any knowledge of where gyno is more probable depending on dose or type of gear? I just havn't seen people talk about this at lower doses like 500 mg per week. What do you think?

Very very individual thing, I had had signs of gyno at a regular dose of 500mg EW of Test E. All depends on the person, but yes the more aromatization the more likely the chances of gyno I suppose, so yes you are right in a way, but there is no sure-fire number.

bino! im on a stack of 500 mg test e per week. i unfortunately got gyno from my first badly adviced stack (followed one of the model stacks on steroid.com before i found this forum).

was taking .5mg per day of letrozole for 2 weeks before this stack, began 5 weeks ago, and noticed puffyness around nipples and the lumps were gradually got bigger. have now been takin 2.5 mg per day for around a week and cant say ive noticed the puffyness go away...if anything its continued to get worse

this is odd! can you suggest anything?! thanks

The only thing I can think of is that your letro may be fake, I cant see how its possible that anyone can be getting gyno taking 2.5mg ED, that is crazy. Make sure you have legit stuff, because if you do than you are EXTREMELY, I would say almost impossibly prone to gyno if there is still enough estrogen binding the the receptors to cause an increase in gyno after running it at 2.5mg ED. Really man there isnt anything else I can suggest, I hate to say it but I mean letro is very strong stuff, there should be almost ZERO estrogen in your body at this point.

[styxecl]

thanks for the quick response mate a appreciate it!

well i had some gyno on my right side, now its on both, and worse. in fairness i wasnt taking it at such a high dose right frmo the start, but still high enough to have stopped any worsening i would have thought.

i wouldnt have thought it was fake, its from ar labs from this site. things is id say its defo worse now cos they're even getting a little sore! but the thing is i don think its fake cos its defo lowered my eastrogen...my joints are aching from no water retention and sex drive is def low considering the test im taking.

i have nolva, do you think i should take a large dose of that? i know you shouldnt mix with AI but as its not doing the job!?

thinking of ending the stack before it gets any worse!

thanks

The only thing I can think of is that your letro may be fake, I cant see how its possible that anyone can be getting gyno taking 2.5mg ED, that is crazy. Make sure you have legit stuff, because if you do than you are EXTREMELY, I would say almost impossibly prone to gyno if there is still enough estrogen binding the the receptors to cause an increase in gyno after running it at 2.5mg ED. Really man there isnt anything else I can suggest, I hate to say it but I mean letro is very strong stuff, there should be almost ZERO estrogen in your body at this point.

[C_Bino]

thanks for the quick response mate a appreciate it!

well i had some gyno on my right side, now its on both, and worse. in fairness i wasnt taking it at such a high dose right frmo the start, but still high enough to have stopped any worsening i would have thought.

i wouldnt have thought it was fake, its from ar labs from this site. things is id say its defo worse now cos they're even getting a little sore! but the thing is i don think its fake cos its defo lowered my eastrogen...my joints are aching from no water retention and sex drive is def low considering the test im taking.

i have nolva, do you think i should take a large dose of that? i know you shouldnt mix with AI but as its not doing the job!?

thinking of ending the stack before it gets any worse!

thanks

Sorry for the late reply on this one. Its very very odd that gyno is getting worse when using the letro. I dont think the nolva will do much of anything seeing as estrogen is already inhibited by the letro. Somethings just dont work for some people, I know thats not what you want to hear but really I cant think of much mor eyou can do. You can try switching AI's to something like aromasin and try that out for a while. Almost all AI's can reverse gyno, letro is just the most effective and efficient. I mean if gyno is getting worse you really have to either stop your cycle or try another approach to inhibiting estrogen. Aromasin has been added to AR-R so you could give that a try. It may not reverse it but hopefully stop it from getting worse if letro is doing nothing for you.

[styxecl]

Sorry for the late reply on this one. Its very very odd that gyno is getting worse when using the letro. I dont think the nolva will do much of anything seeing as estrogen is already inhibited by the letro. Somethings just dont work for some people, I know thats not what you want to hear but really I cant think of much mor eyou can do. You can try switching AI's to something like aromasin and try that out for a while. Almost all AI's can reverse gyno, letro is just the most effective and efficient. I mean if gyno is getting worse you really have to either stop your cycle or try another approach to inhibiting estrogen. Aromasin has been added to AR-R so you could give that a try. It may not reverse it but hopefully stop it from getting worse if letro is doing nothing for you.

no problems mate, thanks for replying.

well i think as i can start PCT on monday, as done no injections for the last week til i got some advice, i should do pct and try and use a high dose of letro and see if that shrinks the lumps down. can go from there. if it doesnt work then atleast it wont have got any worse and if it does it means i know letro does work for me

thing is i have used letro before and it worked for me, so dunno what happened here. bad batch of letro maybe. or maybe should have started on a higher dose seeing as i had slight case of it before. it must be about 2 weeks now on 2.5 mg a day and cant say the gyno has got any worse for the last week or so.

if i do 2.5 mg a day while off could you see the new gyno and fat deposits that have formed in the last few weeks going? i know it wont work for the older lumps ive had for over a year and a half but quite likely will for the newer stuff?

cheers

[styxecl]

The only thing I can think of is that your letro may be fake, I cant see how its possible that anyone can be getting gyno taking 2.5mg ED, that is crazy. Make sure you have legit stuff, because if you do than you are EXTREMELY, I would say almost impossibly prone to gyno if there is still enough estrogen binding the the receptors to cause an increase in gyno after running it at 2.5mg ED. Really man there isnt anything else I can suggest, I hate to say it but I mean letro is very strong stuff, there should be almost ZERO estrogen in your body at this point.

hi bino!

ive continued the letro at 2.5 ED for 2 months now and i cant say ive noticed any difference. do you think there is any point carrying on? i;ve seen a legit website where you can get 2.5mg letro tabs so im considering getting them to see if they work better incase my letro was underdosed.

im also planning to get my lipids checked to see if theres any need to stop using the letro...if not i might as well carry on cos it;ll still be cheaper than surgery

thanks for all your help bro!

[C_Bino]

hi bino!

ive continued the letro at 2.5 ED for 2 months now and i cant say ive noticed any difference. do you think there is any point carrying on? i;ve seen a legit website where you can get 2.5mg letro tabs so im considering getting them to see if they work better incase my letro was underdosed.

im also planning to get my lipids checked to see if theres any need to stop using the letro...if not i might as well carry on cos it;ll still be cheaper than surgery

thanks for all your help bro!

Ya best thing would be to get blood work done to see if you are ok. You have been using it for quite a while so I would be hesitant about running it longer unless you get a new source because you know your other was bunk.

[styxecl]

thanks for your continuing help mate!

i have a docs appointment so will get the blood work done.

it may be my wishful thinking but starting this third bottle seems to be working better...my joints are aching to ****! and sex drive way down again. dunno if it could be that the first were underdosed but not all i bought in the batch. something else i noticed is that the new bottle im using now seems a lot clearer than the one i just finished....dont know if anything off the syringe i was using to measure out the 1ml each day could have lived in the letro and damaged it somehow...i somehow cant see much being able to live in that shite! lol

either way i'll consider whether to continue or not after i get the blood work results

thanks for all your help bino!

Ya best thing would be to get blood work done to see if you are ok. You have been using it for quite a while so I would be hesitant about running it longer unless you get a new source because you know your other was bunk.

[farrebarre]

whats up c bino, just had a question, im gonna have a surgery to remove my gyno, im gonna ask the him to remove everything, not even leave anything for the cave in look, does that mean i can never get gyno again or is it still possible ??
i searched for an answer but some say it wont ever come back some say it will. thnx for any help

[speakerman]

So if you use letro on-cycle, will that kill gains or they will still continue? I've always heard drasticly lowering estrogen is bad for gains.

Also, I'm still slightly confused about Letro PCT. Are you saying I could add letro at .25mg/day, then run the gyno-reversal plan when the cycle ENDS, THEN do Nolva for a couple weeks?