Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

[mmaximus25]

I would like to read the study also... I'm a big fan of proviron and Nolvadex through out my cycles, dosing with HCG in the middle and end of my cycles... I know there is speculation and some evidence that you need a good amount of estrogens also... to keep a harmony with in the anabolic atmosphere we are creating... I can see an even higher level possibly needed with in these true mega doses...

I dont agree with Paul but can respect the theory... those that have tried it can only be our test subjects as far response good and bad...

[BigMaus]

I hope i fully understand the priming and the short burst cycles.
But i think there is a lot of info not given because there would be al bunch of young ppl who would try this method.
But how can we ever fully understand, if were not told what the dose is during such a cycle.

Never before have i read a theory that makes more sence than this one, so i liked to be told how to do this proparly.

excuse my bad Englisch

[IBdmfkr]

I hope i fully understand the priming and the short burst cycles.
But i think there is a lot of info not given because there would be al bunch of young ppl who would try this method.
But how can we ever fully understand, if were not told what the dose is during such a cycle.

Never before have i read a theory that makes more sence than this one, so i liked to be told how to do this proparly.

excuse my bad Englisch

Why not go buy one of the many books listed in this thread, I doubt marcus just pulled this out of his ass, I'm sure it explains in full detail in the books.

[marcus300]

I hope i fully understand the priming and the short burst cycles.
But i think there is a lot of info not given because there would be al bunch of young ppl who would try this method.
But how can we ever fully understand, if were not told what the dose is during such a cycle.

Never before have i read a theory that makes more sence than this one, so i liked to be told how to do this proparly.

excuse my bad Englisch

This method is only for the advance BB and not for newbies or people who are not ready for such high dosages, if i did mention the dosages am sure alot would try it and thats something what i dont want, they will think there is some short cut to building a big body and this method will be the answer to all their dreams, so am afraid i will not post dosages, i will speak to people via PM and if they are educated enough on making disission about using a cycle like this then i will advice best i can, but they have to have plenty of cycle history and are advanced enough.

All i can say is the dose is alot more than you will be using at this moment in time or ever used, but short cycles can be used by newbies but not heavy ones, they need to know how their bodys respond to AAS over a few weeks to detirmine what kind of short cycles should be run and what dose.

There are many books what hit on this method, PB's books are very good but very extreme and i have to say alot as move on since PB use to talk about this method.

Why dont you consider a normal short cycle with a prime beforehand and design it and post it in a new thread with your stats, we can advice then to what dose you should be running for someone at your level?

[marcus300]

I hope i fully understand the priming and the short burst cycles.

check this thread out for priming info, hopefully it will help-

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ighlight=prime

[BigMaus]

bump

[BigMaus]

Yes, there were a couple of books discussed, but which one do you prefer?
I need the one that particully explains this subject.

[mmaximus25]

Yes, there were a couple of books discussed, but which one do you prefer?
I need the one that particully explains this subject.

I'll PM Marcus for you bro...

[Lavinco]

what exactly is "GH"

[IBdmfkr]

what exactly is "GH"

Human Growth Hormone.

[Lavinco]

Human Growth Hormone.

thanks!

Thats what I thought but wasn't sure

[BigMaus]

I appriciate it bro

[valcon]

thanks for the read marcus

[CARNIVORE]

Does anyone have info where I could buy Paul Borreson books? I've done the google thing with no luck.

Thanks,
CARNIVORE

[marcus300]

Does anyone have info where I could buy Paul Borreson books? I've done the google thing with no luck.

Thanks,
CARNIVORE

Try emailing BioHazzard his ex-company.

[CARNIVORE]

Try emailing BioHazzard his ex-company.

Thanks for the idea Marcus, will do.


CARNIVORE

[CARNIVORE]

For those who may want to contact BioHazzard here is som info,
Phil Boykin ( [email protected]) (Tel. 803 484 1866). Phil is the USA Rep for Bio Hazzard

[Pinnacle]

I'll step in and make one open post about my 21 day cycle I did a few months back.After the smoke totally cleared I kept slightly over 5 pounds of actual muscle.
The down side to this cycle was my BW was the worst it ever was,and took me 6 weeks to get things back to normal.By that I mean my lipid profiles.On normal,high dose Test cycles with an oral in it ,my BW never came back this bad and I always bounced back with in 2 weeks after cycle was completed.This is something everyone needs top consider when running a cycle like this.The more I think about it,the more I'm convinced I'll never run such at type cycle again.I'll prefer to run an 8 week cycles at far lower doses(and risks) and most likely get the same gains.

~Pinnacle~

[stupidhippo]

I'll step in and make one open post about my 21 day cycle I did a few months back.After the smoke totally cleared I kept slightly over 5 pounds of actual muscle.
The down side to this cycle was my BW was the worst it ever was,and took me 6 weeks to get things back to normal.By that I mean my lipid profiles.On normal,high dose Test cycles with an oral in it ,my BW never came back this bad and I always bounced back with in 2 weeks after cycle was completed.This is something everyone needs top consider when running a cycle like this.The more I think about it,the more I'm convinced I'll never run such at type cycle again.I'll prefer to run an 8 week cycles at far lower doses(and risks) and most likely get the same gains.

~Pinnacle~

thx for the input...

[marcus300]

I'll step in and make one open post about my 21 day cycle I did a few months back.After the smoke totally cleared I kept slightly over 5 pounds of actual muscle.
The down side to this cycle was my BW was the worst it ever was,and took me 6 weeks to get things back to normal.By that I mean my lipid profiles.On normal,high dose Test cycles with an oral in it ,my BW never came back this bad and I always bounced back with in 2 weeks after cycle was completed.This is something everyone needs top consider when running a cycle like this.The more I think about it,the more I'm convinced I'll never run such at type cycle again.I'll prefer to run an 8 week cycles at far lower doses(and risks) and most likely get the same gains.

~Pinnacle~

I must say pinn, the dose which you had was a very large amount even by top standards and the compounds were some of the strongest you can use.

Your correct in saying everybody should have their BW done to see how things are going, ive got plenty of records which imply bw returned to normal faster than long cycles, everybody is different and if i remember rightly you did start the short heavy cycle when you were cruising on 300mg of test a week, which isnt a best base to work of with this type of cycling.

This system works best when you have been gear free and your body has had a good priming.

[Pinnacle]

if i remember rightly you did start the short heavy cycle when you were cruising on 300mg of test a week, which isnt a best base to work of with this type of cycling.

.

You are correct and all 3 my doctors based my BW off my 250 mgs HRT does I run year round.My lipid profile results post cycle have nothing at all to do with my HRT dose.We did have a base line to work from..and the BW was staggering to say the least ..and quite dangerous too.I'd be willing to bet(and my docs would totally agree) that everyone who runs/ran these type cycles had very poor leading to terrible lipid profiles once cycle ended.....be careful ppl.Youve been warned ..PB had no medical evidence at all to say this type cycling is safe by any means.And to be rather honest...it isn't safe.


~Pinnacle~

[marcus300]

You are correct and all 3 my doctors based my BW off my 250 mgs HRT does I run year round.My lipid profile results post cycle have nothing at all to do with my HRT dose.We did have a base line to work from..and the BW was staggering to say the least ..and quite dangerous too.I'd be willing to bet(and my docs would totally agree) that everyone who runs/ran these type cycles had very poor leading to terrible lipid profiles once cycle ended.....be careful ppl.Youve been warned ..PB had no medical evidence at all to say this type cycling is safe by any means.And to be rather honest...it isn't safe.


~Pinnacle~

correct everybody should have their BW done to see what level it is at, medical evidence? no just many records going back years from all type of BB's, like i said the dose you did was a very high level even for top bb's,if it doesnt agree with you it shouldnt be consider again.

Many pros rate this type of cycling but its only for the advance who know there own bodys and have their bw done.

Not everybody has to do such high dosages, short cycles can be moderate or light with great effect, this is only for the advance who has come to his limit and finds it hard to gain muscle tissue but this system can be used at any level just the dose has to be worked out differently.

[stupidhippo]

true (the somment above Pinns by marcus about protein).. and its obvious that u absorb mostly all what u eat (protein) but the question is that what happens then.. Now this is not written is stone and maybe some one with better knowledge can help out.. but if a large amount of protein is absorbed then the flow of aminoacids to the liver gets so big that it is utilized there to gluconeogenesis... similar mechanisms are active in glucose mietabolism also.. when u take the key enzymes and their different isoforms... hence the liver doestn utilize glucose (and the brain does) when the bloodsugar is low. The affinity is high to glucose with the isoform in the brain while the liver needs higher concentrations to work but when it does get activated it can catalyze large amounts.. I written this the way I remeber it so some inaccuracies might be included..

[vitor]

Ive yust finnished my first short cycle(30 days). The priming I did before starting wasnt ideal, since it was only 2-weeks. And the dosages I was using wasnt to high.(Defently higher than Ive done before, though.)

Still, I gained 6 ibs of muscle on it, which I was very pleased with. Its going to be intresting to see how fast my natty test gets back to normal, or even above normal, in the next few weeks. (I think the main benefit of short cycling will be rapid recovery).

The short-cycle theory defently works. I wonder what the gains would have been like, had I primed longer, and used stronger dosages...

[marcus300]

Ive yust finnished my first short cycle(30 days). The priming I did before starting wasnt ideal, since it was only 2-weeks. And the dosages I was using wasnt to high.(Defently higher than Ive done before, though.)

Still, I gained 6 ibs of muscle on it, which I was very pleased with. Its going to be intresting to see how fast my natty test gets back to normal, or even above normal, in the next few weeks. (I think the main benefit of short cycling will be rapid recovery).

The short-cycle theory defently works. I wonder what the gains would have been like, had I primed longer, and used stronger dosages...

Vitor, please keep me inform how well you recover from your cycle.

[stupidhippo]

i think its pretty well established that they work (at least somewhat, eventhough I suspect them to be VERY effective).. to me the question is long term safety.. that Im not convinced yet...

[marcus300]

i think its pretty well established that they work (at least somewhat, eventhough I suspect them to be VERY effective).. to me the question is long term safety.. that Im not convinced yet...

Best thing would be to try one and see what happens, but make sure you prime correctly before the cycle its a must for rapid muscle tissue gains, they do work without doubt but everybody is different try one and see for yourself, but i wouldnt recommend a heavy short cycle unless your at an advance level

[Property of Steroid.com]

i think its pretty well established that they work (at least somewhat, eventhough I suspect them to be VERY effective).. to me the question is long term safety.. that Im not convinced yet...

There's no question that taking a TON of steroids over a short time is going to work. The question is whether that works better than moderate dosages over a long time, etc...

[stupidhippo]

yeah everyone who tries this method pls chyme in.. especially if u get ur BW done regularily..

[stupidhippo]

im pretty novice when it comes to cycling... but I seem to need pretty high doses to respond (or maybe its the quality of the gear , the biggest UGL hasnt pleased me at all)... I am 270 lbs though (if that has any effect).. Im planning on trying one when I have enough money to buy all what I need for it (including BW's etc and pharmaceutical grade gear).. probably gonna still do one test + tren (or deca) cycle in between with 1,5 G's to 2 g's of AAS a week .. this time with pharmaceutical grade.. I dont know.. how advanced do u have to be to do this?

[don anabolico]

all i can say is SKREW these short cycles and all the theories that go with it.
i did 3 of them... the last one i did i lost EVERYTHING and MORE, cause i was so supressed already. 1 week after being off i was at 106ng!!!! liver was elavated...... just started my 9 weeker today, try and get back what all i lost due to this junk.

[marcus300]

all i can say is SKREW these short cycles and all the theories that go with it.
i did 3 of them... the last one i did i lost EVERYTHING and MORE, cause i was so supressed already. 1 week after being off i was at 106ng!!!! liver was elavated...... just started my 9 weeker today, try and get back what all i lost due to this junk.

Don anabolico,
Ive found your comments very interesting and cant really believe the reported results from you short cycle, i can understand pinn's high BW because of huge amounts pinn took (never does anything half hearted tho) but pinn did make some gains of 5lb which is alot to man like pinn at his stage, his complaint was BW which am sure is due to the huge amount he took of very harsh compounds.

Back to your short cycles, i cant really comment on yours because i know nothing about them, so i did a search on some of your threads, to be totally honest with you, your short cycles are rubbish you have no idea at all what you are doing i would of done some research on the subject first before contemplating any kind of short cycle weather it is heavy/light or standard dosages.

Here is a quote from one of your threads "i have been doing these 2.5 week short cycles of tren and var, and my recent 2 i have lost everything! My off time is 4 weeks between". 2.5 weeks of tren and var??? are you for real? then 4 weeks off? you have done 2 of these cycles? do you like punishing yourself? i am lost for words but your quote says it all.

Here is another link to one of your other threads for a future cycle your 9 weeker? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=237368

Did you have good time off before you started a short cycle?

Did you prime the body before starting the cycle?

Who advised you on using var and tren for 2.5 weeks?

Why only 4 weeks offs in between?

I agree totally with you that your type of short cycling is rubbish and i wouldn't advice anyone doing anything like what you did, short cycles do work maybe not for everybody but they do work great if the correct procedures are done before and the correct compounds are planned in the cycle.

There are many ways of short cycling, this thread was about a certain way which is used by top level pros but the whole idea can be implemented at any stage so long as its designed and planned correctly.

Its all about research and experience to get knowledge in the field you are trying to conquer, my advice to you is stick with standard type of cycling, all the best for your future cycles

[vitor]

Don anabolico,
Ive found your comments very interesting and cant really believe the reported results from you short cycle, i can understand pinn's high BW because of huge amounts pinn took (never does anything half hearted tho) but pinn did make some gains of 5lb which is alot to man like pinn at his stage, his complaint was BW which am sure is due to the huge amount he took of very harsh compounds.

Back to your short cycles, i cant really comment on yours because i know nothing about them, so i did a search on some of your threads, to be totally honest with you, your short cycles are rubbish you have no idea at all what you are doing i would of done some research on the subject first before contemplating any kind of short cycle weather it is heavy/light or standard dosages.

Here is a quote from one of your threads "i have been doing these 2.5 week short cycles of tren and var, and my recent 2 i have lost everything! My off time is 4 weeks between". 2.5 weeks of tren and var??? are you for real? then 4 weeks off? you have done 2 of these cycles? do you like punishing yourself? i am lost for words but your quote says it all.

Here is another link to one of your other threads for a future cycle your 9 weeker? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=237368

Did you have good time off before you started a short cycle?

Did you prime the body before starting the cycle?

Who advised you on using var and tren for 2.5 weeks?

Why only 4 weeks offs in between?

I agree totally with you that your type of short cycling is rubbish and i wouldn't advice anyone doing anything like what you did, short cycles do work maybe not for everybody but they do work great if the correct procedures are done before and the correct compounds are planned in the cycle.

There are many ways of short cycling, this thread was about a certain way which is used by top level pros but the whole idea can be implemented at any stage so long as its designed and planned correctly.

Its all about research and experience to get knowledge in the field you are trying to conquer, my advice to you is stick with standard type of cycling, all the best for your future cycles

I agree that 2.5 weeks on/4off, is a bad idea. I think people should stick with the theorys that has proven to work, which is 2 weeks on/4off or 30 days on.

the diffrence between "Recovery" from 2weeks on to 2.5 weeks on is dramatic actually.

From what I have read and understand; when you have been on for only 2-weeks, only the hypotalamus is inhibited, and it produces much less LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex-hormones it senses.
But the "Pituitary is not inhibited after 14 days(its actually sensitized, and will respond to LHRH, even moreso than usal.) Recovery will therefor be rapid after only 14 days on.
However, if one goes 1-2 days past 14 days, the Pituitary becomes inhibited as well(this is a deeper supression).
Recovery will be no better after 2.5 weeks on, than 4 weeks on. So the whole benefit wilth the 2on/4off will be lost.

No wonder Don anabolica got poor results. Since he was killing hes own Test-production(with 2.5 weeks on, which is a short time to make decent gains)and at the same time, having the same recovery as someone would on a 30days cycle. It makes no sense to cycle like that!!

[AleX-69]

the diffrence between "Recovery" from 2weeks on to 2.5 weeks on is dramatic actually.

From what I have read and understand; when you have been on for only 2-weeks, only the hypotalamus is inhibited, and it produces much less LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex-hormones it senses. But the "Pituitary is not inhibited after 14 days(its actually sensitized, and will respond to LHRH, even moreso than usal.) Recovery will therefor be rapid after only 14 days on.
However, if one goes 1-2 days past 14 days, the Pituitary becomes inhibited as well(this is a deeper supression). Recovery will be no better after 2.5 weeks on, than 4 weeks on. So the whole benefit wilth the 2on/4off will be lost.

you pretty much nailed it there i think. I may add that after 4 weeks testicular shrinkage starts [as a guideline] and therefore recovery will be even worse.. So if you are running a cycle longer than 4 weeks you may aswell do a more traditional cycle concerning your bodys own test production ..

Here is a quote from one of your threads "i have been doing these 2.5 week short cycles of tren and var, and my recent 2 i have lost everything! My off time is 4 weeks between". 2.5 weeks of tren and var??? are you for real? then 4 weeks off? you have done 2 of these cycles? do you like punishing yourself? i am lost for words but your quote says it all.

/signed

[dragon69]

interesting ideas here. Like it so far.

[guest589745]

Bump , here it is.

[stupidhippo]

i disagree with u completely std4! My support for that is just a pretty small group of ppl (about 20) with dofferent training background.. We all started to use AAS roughly the same time.. Im very aware of their diet and training routine.. and a fact that I have made is that ppl who are at pretty beginner stage manage to keep their gains alot more than we who waited for until we reached our "natural max" (if there is such a thing). Also only the beginners have made like 70 lbs increases in their bench in one cycle etc... Weight gain the difference aint there anymore.. But the most obvious observation for me is the keeping of gains.. ppl who arent that advanced can manage to keep more of their gains with poor PCT, not good diet, and a pretty terrible training routine when compared to someone who does everything right but has pretty muc reached his natural top...

[Random]

I COMPLETELY disagree with std4 also. I pushed the envelope so far naturally that when i first used AAS, 7 years after i begain training, it helped but it wasnt magic at all in anyway, in fact this may sound bad but many of my best lifts still stand untouchable for me even with using AAS now....along with that i think i rivaled my latest contest condition naturally....

[stupidhippo]

I COMPLETELY disagree with std4 also. I pushed the envelope so far naturally that when i first used AAS, 7 years after i begain training, it helped but it wasnt magic at all in anyway, in fact this may sound bad but many of my best lifts still stand untouchable for me even with using AAS now....along with that i think i rivaled my latest contest condition naturally....

yeah, it kinda sux cause I thought that a little like std4 before I started juicing.. but I also knew it was a possibility that it would go like this.. I made a decision that after 6 months has passed from this cycle if my lifts drop to where I was natty im not gonna juice no more.. no point, unless I will plan to juice for a long time..

[std4]

i have a friend with 19' natural guns. So you say he won't have much more potential even if he begins to juice?