Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

[Prime]

Markus you say this isnt something for a first time gear user but in you're post you also say alot of younger guys would benefit from these kind of cycles over long drawn out ones.

So where do you think you need ot be before you can attempt something like this? one cycle? 2,3,4?

[fLgAtOr]

Once again, I gained most my weight in the first 4-5 weeks of Prop/Tren. Had to stuggle for the next 6 weeks to even get 5 lbs..

Veerrrry interesting boys...

[IBdmfkr]

Thanks for the input pinn. If I came across as fishing, that wasn't my intention my intention is to learn. I was curious. I have enough EQ sitting here to go a year straight on 600 mg a week. I was wanting to do a 14 week cycle with just test and drol to kick start. I by no means am ready to do these super cycles, and as I already posted am not wanting the dosages, as it is to early for me. I continue to make gains on low dosages and haven't plateued yet. Just was curious about a sample EQ run ( such as 14 weeks 600 mg or 18 weeks 400 mg or 10 weeks 100mg). Just wanting advice from some of the few people on here who probably know.

Seems you are asking advice about how to run Eq on a longer based cycle, This particular thread is about short-burst cycles. Not sure how your question applies? Post up in a new thread and we'll help setup your next cycle, remember to include stats like age, height, weigth, cycle history etc... Best of luck.

[IBdmfkr]

Markus you say this isnt something for a first time gear user but in you're post you also say alot of younger guys would benefit from these kind of cycles over long drawn out ones.

So where do you think you need ot be before you can attempt something like this? one cycle? 2,3,4?

I can't speak for marcus but I think if you have experienced many different compounds and know how your body reacts to each then you might be ready. Also diet, training and physique must be up to par, remember him saying to prime the body you must almost go on a contest diet, well if you aren't in close to contest shape I don't see how you are ready for these cycles. JMO.

[TantruM]

im a novice still on first cycle but this interests me... wondering if a guy did this earlyer in his life with maybe 2 or 3 cycles under belt... would it mean if he ever did decide to go back to mid dosage long cycles he would have to use insanely high dosage?

[IBdmfkr]

One of the main reasons why novices to the gym don't need to juice is to keep their bodies in proportion. Everyone has seen the guys who workout for a few months and jump on cycle, don't know jack about correct dieting or training so they tend to favor certain muscle groups making them look retarded. Can you imagine short highdose burst cycle on a novice, not only do they have No clue on how they will respond to a certain drug but your body comp. is shit when you first start, only time and dedication and genetics will determine how your physique will turn out. Not for newbies.

[TantruM]

yeah can see what ya mean but id hope people have commonsense to know how to workout before they start poppin pins... tho i have a friend he bowflexed on and off years ( hahaha) but went to gym and worked out with me two months then made decision that he was gonna juice when i started and there was no stoppin him... so instead of letting him grow boobs shared knowledge iv gained from trollin here a longtime... bastard went from slob to monster over night... neways thats all off topic... anyway think next cycle ima try the short cycle approach i know noone wants to share info on there own dosages but if someone would talk to me over pm and inform me how i could set dosages for my body / goals would be appreciated

wow thats one long run on sentence ow

[loki_is_a_god]

i have been hearing about these short cycles.....running like 500mgs of test e a day for 30 days...would this be a good cycle to try, for my first time....on a short cycle?

[Pinnacle]

. Also diet, training and physique must be up to par, remember him saying to prime the body you must almost go on a contest diet, well if you aren't in close to contest shape I don't see how you are ready for these cycles. JMO.

No..I think you've misunderstood the concept.

Has nothing to do with being in contest condition.You basically diet down on a contest-like diet..sort of depleting yourself.After about 6-8 weeks of doing so,your body is ready to absorb all the nutrients you throw at it.You are looking to take advantage of the rebound effect from extreme dieting,plus you are adding extremely high amounts of anabolics in the mix.That equates to growth,and it comes on quickly...been there,done that

[IBdmfkr]

That's for clarifying. Figured by doing this type of dieting though that you'd be in close to contest shape. Or are you saying even someone at 20% BF could benefit from such a cycle?

[AleX-69]

i have been hearing about these short cycles.....running like 500mgs of test e a day for 30 days...would this be a good cycle to try, for my first time....on a short cycle?

500mg test e a day? WTF? Thats 3.5g a week..

IF you meant 500g a week thats ok, but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity. You would have to frontload the test on cycle day -2 with triple the dose. On cycle day 0 you would use double dose. And from there on you would use 250mg every 4 days.
You should stop the Test e after 14days IMHO as it will take a certain amount of time to get the test out of your system. Instead you should use a fast acting oral like d-bol for the last 14days of the cycle (preferably the whole cycle alongside of test).
After 4weeks you can begin pct.

But as it is your fist cycle i would not advise you to do a short cycle i outlinde above. You don't even know how you react to test (i.e. which side effects you may expirience) and frontloading a compound by triple the dose may make matters even worse. Morover test e isn't really well suited for short cycles.
So of i were you i wouldn't use test e for such a cycle. Alternativly you could do a "cookie cutter" newbie cycle at 500mg test e a week for 12 weeks. OR you could get gear better suited for short cycles and try one of the newbie cycles explained in RG article.

[Xtralarg]

[QUOTE=AleX-69]500mg test e a day? WTF? Thats 3.5g a week..

IF you meant 500g a week thats ok, but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity.





RUBBISH.....This is the problem,people posting absolute BS.

Have you used a long ester in a short cycle?.....Well I have,Test E,in a 30 day cycle for the first 18 days,exactly the time when I gained 14lbs,all of which I have retained.

So please refrain from posting information which is incorrect it is misleading to others.

[Gra]

Wouldn`t it be better to use prop in a 30 day cycle? What`s the reason for using test e instead?

[Xtralarg]

I use prop towards the end,ran it in the last 12 days in my last short heavy cycle.

Reasons:

1.Test e is usually 250mg/ml , prop 50-100mg/1ml therefore it is easier to get the required ammounts using less cc's with E rather than P.

2.I find that changing esters/compuonds is beneficial,it shocks the body and helps you to keep gaining weight.

[Booz]

500mg test e a day? WTF? Thats 3.5g a week..

IF you meant 500g a week thats ok, but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity. You would have to frontload the test on cycle day -2 with triple the dose. On cycle day 0 you would use double dose. And from there on you would use 250mg every 4 days.
You should stop the Test e after 14days IMHO as it will take a certain amount of time to get the test out of your system. Instead you should use a fast acting oral like d-bol for the last 14days of the cycle (preferably the whole cycle alongside of test).
After 4weeks you can begin pct.

But as it is your fist cycle i would not advise you to do a short cycle i outlinde above. You don't even know how you react to test (i.e. which side effects you may expirience) and frontloading a compound by triple the dose may make matters even worse. Morover test e isn't really well suited for short cycles.
So of i were you i wouldn't use test e for such a cycle. Alternativly you could do a "cookie cutter" newbie cycle at 500mg test e a week for 12 weeks. OR you could get gear better suited for short cycles and try one of the newbie cycles explained in RG article.

have you not read anything that has been posted about the high dose short cycles mate?
long esters can be used to great effect!

[goose]

Very nice thread marcus,my next cycle will be a PB cycle,very excited.Had a mate gained 19 pounds in the 4 weeks,recently.It is the furture for me....


goose4..

[Prime]

I can't speak for marcus but I think if you have experienced many different compounds and know how your body reacts to each then you might be ready. Also diet, training and physique must be up to par, remember him saying to prime the body you must almost go on a contest diet, well if you aren't in close to contest shape I don't see how you are ready for these cycles. JMO.

That makes no sense to me. You are depleted and not at you're strongest when on a contest diet.
My interpretation of what Markus had said toward priming yourself was to create a naturally anabolic environment before hitting the cycle, so you hit the ground running.
To have a good diet providing all the nutrients and calories you need for growth while having already entered into a training programme so you wont need 3 weeks to work into things and work up to full strength etc, so when the cycle starts you hit the ground running. 30 days of full bore going for it.

What you are suggesting sounds a little different. I know from experience that after cutting my body has no desire to grow it just wants to recover from being in a calorie deficient state and wants to return to homeostasis. But then thats just me.

[marcus300]

Markus you say this isnt something for a first time gear user but in you're post you also say alot of younger guys would benefit from these kind of cycles over long drawn out ones.

So where do you think you need ot be before you can attempt something like this? one cycle? 2,3,4?

Thats correct its not for the first time gear user, its for BB's who know their own bodys and how they react to all the different compounds, they need to have a good few years of training under their belts and know how they respond to certain diets,

Younger BB's can benefit from this, because when they are advanced enough they can try these cycles out and they will realise that they dont really need to do long cycles which in turn will really benefit them, ie- no bridging/coasting/ hrt sooner than they should/ no increased dosages with every cycle/ easier recovery/ easier maintenace.

[marcus300]

That makes no sense to me. You are depleted and not at you're strongest when on a contest diet.
My interpretation of what Markus had said toward priming yourself was to create a naturally anabolic environment before hitting the cycle, so you hit the ground running.
To have a good diet providing all the nutrients and calories you need for growth while having already entered into a training programme so you wont need 3 weeks to work into things and work up to full strength etc, so when the cycle starts you hit the ground running. 30 days of full bore going for it.

What you are suggesting sounds a little different. I know from experience that after cutting my body has no desire to grow it just wants to recover from being in a calorie deficient state and wants to return to homeostasis. But then thats just me.

primming the body before a short heavy cycle is one of the most important thing you can do especailly with this theory, you diet down and lose fat, just like a comp diet or ive also found better way of priming by cycling the carbs 3 low 1 high this will create a very anabolic emviroment for muscle tissue to grow, the muscle receptors get highly excitable and upgrade and able to accept more glucose and because glucose levels are not full in the muscle the result is more deposited into the muscle instead of fat cells which creates an enviroment to build muscle tissue very quickley, if this is done correcty and AAS+GH are combined and timed right when you start this heavy short cycle, growth is amazing,

When you are priming you must increase your protein/aminos to compensate any canabolisum of the muscle tissue, its a fine line as am sure some know! What you do is take advantage of all the rebound effect, this shuttles the nutrients direct to the muscles this coupled with ASS+GH+intense training program+increased amounts of food = hugh muscle tissue gains FACT.

[Black R/T]

this thread is great. loads of information. i especially like the idea of priming... i have inadvertently done it in the past before a cycle and then just jumped on one and started eating like a monster from the get go. 10lbs in the first 2 weeks is what i got.

[Black R/T]

Marcus, how long do you suggest to prime for? the entire off cycle? or should you give the gear some time to finish doing what it does, then start dieting?

[marcus300]

this thread is great. loads of information. i especially like the idea of priming... i have inadvertently done it in the past before a cycle and then just jumped on one and started eating like a monster from the get go. 10lbs in the first 2 weeks is what i got.

This is the whole idea, take advantage and use it to its full potential.

[MatrixGuy]

Great post Marcus. Am guessing this information isn't relevant to me yet as i have only done 1 cycle.

[marcus300]

Marcus, how long do you suggest to prime for? the entire off cycle? or should you give the gear some time to finish doing what it does, then start dieting?

It depends which kind of prime you do and how your body reacts when its dieting, this is indivdual, i prefer cycling my carbs 3 days low(40% less than normal) 1 day high (15% higher than normal), i feel this is'nt to harsh on your muscle tissue and the 1 high carb day offsets any potential metobolic slowdown, which is extremely usefull in laying down metobolic boosting muscle or at least saving it. the high carb/low carb rotational diet upgrades the receptors cites on muscle tissue for insulin, this changes the bodys ability to store carbs as glycogen rather than fat,

i could talk all day on this subject,there are loads of tricks you can do to help get your body into the correct enviroment, many different ways.
(the above i normaly do for 6-8 weeks)
i hope am making sense

[Pinnacle]

Wouldn`t it be better to use prop in a 30 day cycle? What`s the reason for using test e instead?

I ran Prop/Tren(extreme doses) for 21 days.The volume was tough to do,but well worth it for me.I was doing shots in places I never though I would.When the smoke cleared,I kept a little over 8 pounds.Not bad for 21 days

~Pinnacle~

[marcus300]

I ran Prop/Tren(extreme doses) for 21 days.The volume was tough to do,but well worth it for me.I was doing shots in places I never though I would.When the smoke cleared,I kept a little over 8 pounds.Not bad for 21 days

~Pinnacle~

Excellent work pinn, thanks for your imput

[Prime]

primming the body before a short heavy cycle is one of the most important thing you can do especailly with this theory, you diet down and lose fat, just like a comp diet or ive also found better way of priming by cycling the carbs 3 low 1 high this will create a very anabolic emviroment for muscle tissue to grow, the muscle receptors get highly excitable and upgrade and able to accept more glucose and because glucose levels are not full in the muscle the result is more deposited into the muscle instead of fat cells which creates an enviroment to build muscle tissue very quickley, if this is done correcty and AAS+GH are combined and timed right when you start this heavy short cycle, growth is amazing,

When you are priming you must increase your protein/aminos to compensate any canabolisum of the muscle tissue, its a fine line as am sure some know! What you do is take advantage of all the rebound effect, this shuttles the nutrients direct to the muscles this coupled with ASS+GH+intense training program+increased amounts of food = hugh muscle tissue gains FACT.

It's a very interesting concept. As i'm only pulling from my own experience and have not ever taken steroids i suppose what you say makes sence, but is an idea and approach completley alien to anything i have been doing as my approach has had to be different in the past.
I will certinaly be paying attention to this thread and any further threads on this topic.

[marcus300]

It's a very interesting concept. As i'm only pulling from my own experience and have not ever taken steroids i suppose what you say makes sence, but is an idea and approach completley alien to anything i have been doing as my approach has had to be different in the past.
I will certinaly be paying attention to this thread and any further threads on this topic.

By all means research and look into this way of cycling, but if you havent ever used gear this type of cycling is not for you,

[IBdmfkr]

Is there a specific BF one should shoot for before running one of these cycles Marcus?

Also, do you start the GH before-hand or all at once with the anabolics at an increased dosage?

Thx

[Pinnacle]

Excellent work pinn, thanks for your imput

No worries marcus..my pleasure


I'd like to stress one point here.If anyone takes anything from this thread,it should be the priming protocol.This should be done before every cycle,whether it be a standard 12 week cycle,or a short burst cycle.Most ppl tend to ignore the pre cycle diet.This is crucial for maximum growth.Prime your body guys.It works.I've been doing it long before I started reading about these short burst cycles.I first heard of this from articles written by dorian yates in the mid 90's.He used this protocol to his advantage.The day after a contest,he'd be in the game training his ass off,while others were taking time off after the contest.He was a huge believer in the rebound effect from hard-core dieting.So once again.No matter what type cycle you do.Always prime your body before hand for 6-8 weeks.

Body fat percentages make no difference( to a certain degree) .It's all about priming your body.

~Pinnacle~

[marcus300]

Is there a specific BF one should shoot for before running one of these cycles Marcus?

Also, do you start the GH before-hand or all at once with the anabolics at an increased dosage?

Thx

No there isnt any specific BF you should be before running on of these cycles, if you prime the body beforehand correctly lets say 6-8wks, the prime will reduce the BF drasticly, its the enviroment what you have created what makes so amazing gains, the prime just puts you in a better place to grow very quickley, this is the time take of advantage of.

As for GH, well am still gathering studies on this subject, all i can give you is what experience's BB's have had, i personaly stopped my gh before i stated the cycle, i had i think about 12 wks off the GH, then i use the 4 on 4 off approach as soon as i started the cycle along with all the other stuff, i feel you need to give the body a rest and then attack it hard and fast,

ive also had BB's who was running GH at around 4ius ED before the cycle, and they upped the dose alot and they still gain very well, id say the jury is still out on that one, looking at all the results over the years id say GH EOD would be the way to go,and personanly id stop all compounds of any kind beforehand and just use every natural substances to keep the gains or at least stop them going

[Prime]

By all means research and look into this way of cycling, but if you havent ever used gear this type of cycling is not for you,

no but it's always a good idea to plan ahead.

[marcus300]

No worries marcus..my pleasure


I'd like to stress one point here.If anyone takes anything from this thread,it should be the priming protocol.This should be done before every cycle,whether it be a standard 12 week cycle,or a short burst cycle.Most ppl tend to ignore the pre cycle diet.This is crucial for maximum growth.Prime your body guys.It works.I've been doing it long before I started reading about these short burst cycles.I first heard of this from articles written by dorian yates in the mid 90's.He used this protocol to his advantage.The day after a contest,he'd be in the game training his ass off,while others were taking time off after the contest.He was a huge believer in the rebound effect from hard-core dieting.So once again.No matter what type cycle you do.Always prime your body before hand for 6-8 weeks.

Body fat percentages make no difference( to a certain degree) .It's all about priming your body.

~Pinnacle~

Thanks pinn, your correct the prime is one of the most important things BB can do for gains, it doesnt have to be just with a short cycle, Dorian was a big believer in the prime as pinn stated and he use the short cycle theory to his advantage, if you look back at his photos he grow very quickley in a short period of time, theres some black at white pics knocking about what just show the difference within a year,

also like to state its the training which also makes a drastic difference, with the prime and this theory,

[Pinnacle]

also like to state its the training which also makes a drastic difference, with the prime and this theory,

Very true marcus.It has to be some form of HIT.The standard 5 days a week ..tons of sets routine won't cut it in this type protocol.This training style I'm a big believer in too.I certainly wish I would have listened to the guys(who were preaching this to me) when I was younger.Less is def more....

[marcus300]

Very true marcus.It has to be some form of HIT.The standard 5 days a week ..tons of sets routine won't cut it in this type protocol.This training style I'm a big believer in too.I certainly wish I would have listened to the guys(who were preaching this to me) when I was younger.Less is def more....

excellent post pinn,

With this theory you can put everything into it for 30 days but you couldnt do that for lets say 12 weeks, its impossible no matter what compounds you are taking, you can mentaly get ready for the punishment and put 24/7 dedication into it, very intense training, very mentaly demanding but the gains coupled with everything ive said, are outstanding.

Its not just the AAS what make this work its the whole package

[IBdmfkr]

Reason I was mentioning the GH before hand was from the anticatabolic effect it can give on a restricted diet. Just figured it would be more beneficial to run it at a smaller dosage up until the cycle to hold muscle mass.

[marcus300]

Reason I was mentioning the GH before hand was from the anticatabolic effect it can give on a restricted diet. Just figured it would be more beneficial to run it at a smaller dosage up until the cycle to hold muscle mass.

Yes very true, alot do run at a low dose then up it from the start, trial and error and see what works best for yourself,

[Black R/T]

Marcus
you should go on all day about priming, write a thread about it. im sure others would like to see the same thing.

[Seattle Junk]

Maybe I didn't read enough but do you do 1 month on, 1 month off with PCT and repeat? It makes a lot of sense and I will try it with my next cycle for sure. Your HPTA can't get too supressed after 4 hard weeks, can it?

[Seattle Junk]

Marcus
you should go on all day about priming, write a thread about it. im sure others would like to see the same thing.

I basically "primed" before my current test e/EQ cycle with DNP and a clean diet. I will no longer go in at a higher bf% when starting a cycle. I agree with priming 100%.