Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

[goose]

Thanks pinn, your correct the prime is one of the most important things BB can do for gains, it doesnt have to be just with a short cycle, Dorian was a big believer in the prime as pinn stated and he use the short cycle theory to his advantage, if you look back at his photos he grow very quickley in a short period of time, theres some black at white pics knocking about what just show the difference within a year,

also like to state its the training which also makes a drastic difference, with the prime and this theory,

Dorian was Extremely advanced in the diet deparment in the 90`s, Dorian Yates would whittle from 300-pounds to a contest ripped 260-pounds by imperceptibly reducing his calories from 6,000 a day to 3,500. He reduced gradually, taking 12-weeks to peak. If he dipped below 3,500 calories, hard-earned muscle would evaporate. At 290 Dorian could walk his twin Dobermans at top speed and achieve an 80% age-related heart rate. He was famous for lifting bar-bending poundage yet his food selections were surprisingly ‘normal’
Dorian’s pre-competition cut diet (eating at his strictest) seems hardly inhumane. The key is the type of foods, the timing of ingestion and the mixing of the various foods together. Everything within the diet is selected and prepared and placed for a specific reason.
Dorian kept his fat consumption to a realistic (for a pro bodybuilder) 15 to 20% of total calories. He would train in the afternoon and as soon as his brutal training session was over he would re-supply his body with exactly what it needed in the form of a protein/carb shake. He wanted to retain as much of his awesome muscle mass as possible and not consume a single calorie more than necessary to do that! By hovering at the caloric balance point and using the caloric cost of exercise to create a negative energy balance, fat was systematically burned to cover caloric shortfall. He would keep this methodical regimentation up for 12 straight weeks, every single day, without a single break. In order to have his body fat level down to 2-3% on the day of competition, he would maintain a decent number of calories in the face of dramatically increased physical activity: more cardio, more lifting, longer session with poundage designed to etch and shape final muscular detail – the bulk building phase ended months ago,a brutal yet truly amazing method he Executed to compete with the yanks.

goose4..

[marcus300]

Maybe I didn't read enough but do you do 1 month on, 1 month off with PCT and repeat? It makes a lot of sense and I will try it with my next cycle for sure. Your HPTA can't get too supressed after 4 hard weeks, can it?

you dont need to go back on a short heavy cycle after pct, normaly you go on a maintenance cycle very mild one, which you still respond to because your system wasnt so supressed and its fully recoverd, alot of pro's do keep rotating the theory but you dont need to unless your at top level.

[goose]

Marcus my main man-

Approx how many 30 day blitz cycles would you perform a year? What`s a good number for you?

goose4..

[marcus300]

Marcus my main man-

Approx how many 30 day blitz cycles would you perform a year? What`s a good number for you?

goose4..

i normaly always go on a maintenance cycle after my pct following a short heavy cycle, then it depends what i am planning on doing weather i go back on a short heavy one or a cutting cycle, but i wouldnt do short heavy cycles back to back, i like to maintain it and prime my body over a long time then attack it again, but i do know ppl who do one after the other. depends what your planning on doing

[hosam4ever]

bump

[alwayson]

are you guys sayin dorian yates came off often and did pct?

i find that hard to believe.

also didn't he do slin? wouldnt that account for his mass?

[PaulieM.]

from what i've read about these cycles is that you run high dose juice, slin, and growth for about 3-4 weeks and then keep running low dose test and another mild anabolic for about 6 more weeks. i've thought about trying something like this, and i stay at around a gram a weeks usually, but i'll probably do this next off-season.

1ml of sauce ed
1ml primobolan ed
200mg tri-tren eod
8-12i.u.'s of growth 5on/2off
10-15i.u. of slin pw
after doing this for 30days i'll just run 500mg enanthate and 200primo for 6 weeks or so.

[alwayson]

if thats the case maybe I can see the wisdom

I wish marcus could IM me a sample cycle so i can see how this works

And i want an idealized hardcore Dorian Yates year long cycle as well!

[AleX-69]

RUBBISH.....This is the problem,people posting absolute BS.

Have you used a long ester in a short cycle?.....Well I have,Test E,in a 30 day cycle for the first 18 days,exactly the time when I gained 14lbs,all of which I have retained.

So please refrain from posting information which is incorrect it is misleading to others.

To get things clear: I NEVER said long esters wouldn't work in a short cylce, did I? It is a fact that they do work, that is why I outlined a sample cycle using a long estered test.
BUT nevertheless i feel it is better to use faster acting aas during a short cycle, especially for a newbie who does not know how he might react to a super high frontload of an longer acting aas (Test E.) Using faster acting aas is just the safer way to go IMHO - at least for unexpierenced users.

I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way...

[marcus300]

from what i've read about these cycles is that you run high dose juice, slin, and growth for about 3-4 weeks and then keep running low dose test and another mild anabolic for about 6 more weeks. i've thought about trying something like this, and i stay at around a gram a weeks usually, but i'll probably do this next off-season.

1ml of sauce ed
1ml primobolan ed
200mg tri-tren eod
8-12i.u.'s of growth 5on/2off
10-15i.u. of slin pw
after doing this for 30days i'll just run 500mg enanthate and 200primo for 6 weeks or so.

What you are talking about in the above is not what ive been saying, i would read the whole thread, ive tried to make it as clear as possible, doing 3-4 weeks high dose cycle then follow that with 6 more weeks is 9-10 week cycle, This is not what ive been trying to explain, the whole idea is to create an enviroment in which muscle tissue will grow at a fast rate (priming) then hit your system hard for around 30 days, come totaly off recover and maintain and plan for the following cycles and preper your body again with priming.

usualy the following cycle would be just a maintenance cycle or cutter which would involve very mild dose something like what you would use for the 6 weeks following the above cycle,but NOT straight after the heavy dose cycle, all the above is a 9-10 wk cycle starting off heavy, also the dose is wrong.

There are a few people who would do a low dose bridge but these people are very advanced and have to do this to compete at the level they are at, or because they are on HRT earlier than they should be because of the long term use of AAS, these peoples cycles are worked out differently because they have to take in consideration the HRT dose to work out the dose for the short heavy cycle.

Please re- read the whole thread it does try to explain it

Marcus

[marcus300]

To get things clear: I NEVER said long esters wouldn't work in a short cylce, did I? It is a fact that they do work, that is why I outlined a sample cycle using a long estered test.
BUT nevertheless i feel it is better to use faster acting aas during a short cycle, especially for a newbie who does not know how he might react to a super high frontload of an longer acting aas (Test E.) Using faster acting aas is just the safer way to go IMHO - at least for unexpierenced users.

I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way...

A newbie shouldnt be doing this type of cycle, the BB should know how he reacts to all compounds, this type of cycling is not for the unexpierenced.

[AleX-69]

I like Tren and I like d-bol and especially for a shorty. YES NEWBIE you can use these strong androgens and NO Tren is not hard on the kidneys(myth).

Some guys think I am nuts for recommending Tren for a first cycle and they say it is too harsh.... but most of the same bro's will recommend a long cycle of test/d-bol for a newbie and I can assure you that a long cycle of test/d-bol is going to give you more sides than a shorty with Tren and d-bol. Bro's test is just as "harsh" as Tren and it causes a good deal of water retention, with resultant increase in BP(bad in some bro's) unless you use an estrogen inhibitor....and shit test/d-bol stacks are WAY "harsher" than Tren.

The only issue with Tren is the frequent injecting required.....but I know some of you newbies have been researching for a long time and are fine with the idea of frequent injections(they aren't that bad!)

@marcus

I'm sure YOUR short cycle approch isn't suited for steroid newbies. But nevertheless short cycles in general are - as it is stated above.
I don't think there is something wrong taking prop & d-bol in reasonable amounts for 4 weeks as a newbie. In fact the chances of getting harsh side effects are lower than on a traditional 12weeker + recovery post cycle will be a lot easier.
The dosages RG recommends for newbies are in no way extraordinary. 75mg test prop a day - thats 525mg a week.
While 500mg/week would be the norm for a traditional 12 week newbie cycle.
Go figure who would have more side effects.

Just to make it clear once more. I totally agree that running short cycles with a boatload of gear is in no way suited for a newbie.
But a reasonable dosed short cylce might be even better suited for a newbie than a tradtional 12 week cycle.

[marcus300]

@marcus

I'm sure YOUR short cycle approch isn't suited for steroid newbies. But nevertheless short cycles in general are - as it is stated above.
I don't think there is something wrong taking prop & d-bol in reasonable amounts for 4 weeks as a newbie. In fact the chances of getting harsh side effects are lower than on a traditional 12weeker + recovery post cycle will be a lot easier.
The dosages RG recommends for newbies are in no way extraordinary. 75mg test prop a day - thats 525mg a week.
While 500mg/week would be the norm for a traditional 12 week newbie cycle.
Go figure who would have more side effects.

Just to make it clear once more. I totally agree that running short cycles with a boatload of gear is in no way suited for a newbie.
But a reasonable dosed short cylce might be even better suited for a newbie than a tradtional 12 week cycle.

i understand what your talking about, i just wanted to make it clear to everybody reading this thread that its NOT what am saying, its a different appoach, this theory i relate to is not for the newbi,

but fully understand your appoach for the newbi

[Xtralarg]

To get things clear: I NEVER said long esters wouldn't work in a short cylce, did I? It is a fact that they do work, that is why I outlined a sample cycle using a long estered test.
BUT nevertheless i feel it is better to use faster acting aas during a short cycle, especially for a newbie who does not know how he might react to a super high frontload of an longer acting aas (Test E.) Using faster acting aas is just the safer way to go IMHO - at least for unexpierenced users.

I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way...

Yes you did and i quote you
'but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity'

please explain?

You say it is better to use short esters,have you tried both short and long in short cycles?...well I and other i know personlly have and let me tell you the results from long esters are just as good as the ones from short ones so please explain your statement.

I ask you to do so because the are far to many people giving advise who have nothing to back it up with and that is misleading to others who are trying to learn,it should be stopped.If you cant back it up then dont say it.

[AleX-69]

i understand what your talking about, i just wanted to make it clear to everybody reading this thread that its NOT what am saying, its a different appoach, this theory i relate to is not for the newbi,

but fully understand your appoach for the newbi

Glad we sorted that out!

[europeman]

so for example, i first cut for 8 weeks or so, use a little dnp in the middle to refresh the receptors than do a 4 week heavy cycle like:

day 1-30 500mg sust
day 1-30 100mg d-bol
day 1-30 200mg drol
day 1-30 350mg tren A or E
day 1-30 400mcg igfL3 ED (done it before gained 18 KILO) from 100 to 118 kilo

than come of for a week or 5

than a low dose cycle like:

week 1-7 100 mg prop ed
week 1-7 50 mg winny ed

[AleX-69]

Yes you did and i quote you
'but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity'

please explain?

You say it is better to use short esters,have you tried both short and long in short cycles?...well I and other i know personlly have and let me tell you the results from long esters are just as good as the ones from short ones so please explain your statement.

I ask you to do so because the are far to many people giving advise who have nothing to back it up with and that is misleading to others who are trying to learn,it should be stopped.If you cant back it up then dont say it.

I know where you are coming from.
So I will admit that i have NEVER used a long estered AAS in a short cycle (and probably never will). My statment concering the longer estered AAS was based on theory and conclusions i draw reading RG articels in the past. Even though i never questioned that long estered roids would have an effect in short cycles I am suprised that the results seem to be just as good as with short esters( i assume you have done both).
So in fact I appreciate your info on the subject and i am glad you and booz cleared things up.

[marcus300]

Long and short esters can be used in this theory of cycling, the results are the same, normaly the long ester would be used at the beginning of the cycle for 1-15 days then swapped with the short ester for the remaining duration, if you prefer to use short esters all the way through thats fine but long ester can be used on this theory, people shouldnt get confused between this theory and a standard short cycle which as been mentioned last couple of post's.

Remember its the priming+AAS+GH+intense training+ diet what makes this all come together, if you get all the above right huge muscle tissue gains can be obtained.

[europeman]

so you are only using the gh for a month?

[marcus300]

so you are only using the gh for a month?

GH can be used beforehand and afterwards but for the duration of the heavy short cycle it should be run at a high dose, GH as many benefits for running it in the prime and pct!!

[The_Bezerker]

hey marcus, great thread so far, i am interested in what you have to say so far and am very curious about this PB theory and would love to personally talk to you in the upcomming weeks about helping me set up a cycle but right now i have to disagree with the "30 day cycle". I hope you can shed some light on this for me.

the point of a 30 day cycle is to regard inhibition i assume. But heres where i am getting confused

on a cycle that needs adequate doses to support muscluar growth it takes about 2 weeks for the hypothalmus to become inhibiited, so i doesnt produce any LHRH, now the pititary is not inhibited, it is in fact sensitized to LHRH. However after another 2 weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited to the point that if there is any LHRH present it will not produce an LH now this a much stronger type of inhibition one that requires good pct to correct. Basically at this point the inhibition is the same as a 8 week cycle.

so wouldnt it make more sense to run 2 weeks 4 weeks off with a bridge of slin, IGF-1,growth, instead of running a 4 week cycle because you can avoid the inhibition of the pitituary by staying on for 2 weeks

[marcus300]

hey marcus, great thread so far, i am interested in what you have to say so far and am very curious about this PB theory and would love to personally talk to you in the upcomming weeks about helping me set up a cycle but right now i have to disagree with the "30 day cycle". I hope you can shed some light on this for me.

the point of a 30 day cycle is to regard inhibition i assume. But heres where i am getting confused

on a cycle that needs adequate doses to support muscluar growth it takes about 2 weeks for the hypothalmus to become inhibiited, so i doesnt produce any LHRH, now the pititary is not inhibited, it is in fact sensitized to LHRH. However after another 2 weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited to the point that if there is any LHRH present it will not produce an LH now this a much stronger type of inhibition one that requires good pct to correct. Basically at this point the inhibition is the same as a 8 week cycle.

so wouldnt it make more sense to run 2 weeks 4 weeks off with a bridge of slin, IGF-1,growth, instead of running a 4 week cycle because you can avoid the inhibition of the pitituary by staying on for 2 weeks

All i can do is give you the experience of alot of top BB's who have ran this system, ive kept a diary with all the results and if the correct prime and gear is timed right the results are outstanding, recovery from one of these cycles are very easy, thats what every BB has told me and ive experienced it myself, i have know BB's who ran 21 days because they said they didnt really respond after day 21 on a 30 cycle, they had excellent gains but the average prefer 30 days.

Its worth thinking about your 2 wks on 4 off, infact i might just do a study and try it out for myself and see if it works as good as the 30 days, maybe the recovery is alot better!!

[BOBBY D]

I use to know him, he adviced me a few years back on certain things,
its not just PB who as talked about this theory Dan Duchaine, Jeff Summers, have also used it and studied it with great success,

PB has a bachelor's degree in biochemistry he graduated with first class honours, he then went on to get his master's degree in pharmaclogy specializing in the study of receptor sites and their function, his work as been published in medical journals throughout the world and has had articles appear in over 200 magazines on various aspects of steriod use and their application to bodybuilders, he also transform the world aids victims and how we can substain life longer with steriod applications,top pro's ask PB for advice on stacks and cycles just to name one was DY who was under PB arm durring his Olympia battles,

i also know that Dorian said in interviews that he had nothing to do with PB or his theorys, but Dorian was pushed to say these things because of his sponsers, he still was in contact with him for years tho.
he also didnt die due to his steriod use, he broke his back in an accident which made him use pain killers so he could train again, he overdosed on the pain killers.
I think you can buy his books and videos online, just to name two of them-

1,The Anabolic Edge 2001
Written by the legend PB, this masterpiece, if you had to pick one, would be the best because it details the combination of drugs, supplements and foods and how they interact “anabolically” with each other more thoroughly than any steroid book.

Many stacks are discussed as only “Stack Master PB” can discuss them . . . HARD-CORE beyond HHHARD-CORE! This book, just on its own, is good for 20 pounds of muscle!

2,How To Stack Steroids
The “Stack Master” strikes again. But this time Paul devotes an entire book The Stack to this most fascinating subject. Now you’ll easily be certified by the post office as a “new zip code” once you try any one of the dozens of stacks Paul has used to “manufacture” the biggest bodybuilders in the world. Must be 21 to read! The most controversial steroid book on the market.

in bold was concerning me.. who died? Dorian Yates OR PB? if so wow!! what is PB'S full name.. thanks guys, good thread by the way marcus.. im looking into it down the road...

[novicenovicen]

On a short burst, heavy aas like you indicate would it be more beneficial for one to use both long and short esters? Or better to stick with just one. (Also this is out of curiosity and my need to obtain knowledge, I am not ready for this yet)

[marcus300]

Bobby D, PB died not Dorian, sorry if it looked confusing,

Novicenoviecen, This is personal preference, i prefer to use long ester at the start and finish on a short, use the one which you respond best to, either stick with one all the way through or use 2 esters long and short,

[needbigguns]

I would not class my self as being very advanced more of intermediate...I can still gain off 500mgs of test stacked with other compounds..the short cycle theory has allways interested me and im keen to try it...My next cycle will be my 3rd but my question is - Allthough i can still gain from 500mg of Test + Other compounds, if i run a heavy dose of test with other compounds in a short cycle would this mean i needed to up my dosage from 500mg the next time i run a normal cycle...

I would be interested to try a short blitz cutting cycle comming up to the summer, my goals would be obviously as much mass as possible but geting as ripped as a mother fu*ker...Could someone PM me a short summer 30 day cycle with those goals in mind

[BOBBY D]

Bobby D, PB died not Dorian, sorry if it looked confusing,

Novicenoviecen, This is personal preference, i prefer to use long ester at the start and finish on a short, use the one which you respond best to, either stick with one all the way through or use 2 esters long and short,

thanks marcus for clearing it up. what is P.B.'s full name.. i might pick up the books mentioned on the first page.

[novicenovicen]

marcus thankyou for the reply. though I would have thought a 1/2 prop 1/2 ethan for the first 2 weeks, then prop only. But thats why your the pro.

[BOBBY D]

marcus, i always wanted to ask this, is that u in the avatar? if so GOD BLESS!!!

[marcus300]

Bobby ive pm you some details you require, thanks for your positive comments

[fitguy]

hey marcus ,can you outline a sample 30day cycle, just curious .. peace bro

[Pinnacle]

hey marcus ,can you outline a sample 30day cycle, just curious .. peace bro

Marcus..PLEASE DO NOT ACCOMODATE THESE KIDS

I also hope you are screening your PM's carefully.I've had quite a few enquiries and I went back and looked at thier posts to find out they've only had ONE cycle under thier belt.Needless to say,their PM's were deleted.
Granted,this is a nice topic of dicussion,but I really don't feel it's safe to keep pushing these short cycles on this board .There are far to many young newbies here,and someone is going to get hurt.
I'm seeing questions pop up in other forums on this board in regard to short cycle.In the lab a kid recently asked how to put 5 compounds in a 1cc solution so he can run a short cycle like you've been tallking about.As much as you try to stress this isn't for newbies,the more it's talked about,the odds are some kid is going to try this type cycle and really fvk himself up.Look at some of the ppl asking in this thread marcus.They don't have but one or 2 cycles under thier belt.Knowledge is fine,but to keep on pushing this type cycling on a newbie board such as this,is rather dangerous IMO...

~Pinnacle~

[sp9]

Marcus, Great read. I am glad I finally ran across this. I understand what you are doing, but for me this is too advanced. I can see how this would benefit the dedicated bodybuilder. The average joe could really harm himself, because life events would constantly interupt the type of dedication needed here. I hope people understand there is a difference between spending commited time and strategies to acheive competitive advantages and the novice or intermediate person.

I love to hear these strategies of the serious body builder. Thanks for the info.

sp9

[alwayson]

i'm expecting a PM from you Marcus!

[Pinnacle]

Here's another case in point.This advice was given tonight to a NEWBIE asking about a tren only cycle.Mind you,a fvkin' newbie was being told to do a short burst,high dose cycle.This is why this topic is very dangerous for this board.

Today, 08:44 PM
groundandpoundpwr21
Member



Fina only is a great cycle and one of the easiest to keep gains off of. Id say if its your first time with fina 50-75mg INJECTION every other day would be fine. Also after reading marcuses burst cycle post hit up fina for 6 weeks with standard




Need I say more?

~Pinnacle~

[IBdmfkr]

i'm expecting a PM from you Marcus!

As are probably 20 other ppl. Why don't you guys leave him alone and pick up the two books he mentioned in this thread, why is nobody willing to do any research but rather go off of somebodies word they have never met. Not targeting you "alwayson" as I don't know you, but everyone in general that jumps in excitement when a new theory or idea is introduced by a VET or senior member. If he said take 10grams of Test/wk I bet half of these guys would do it, no questions asked.

[AleX-69]

Here's another case in point.This advice was given tonight to a NEWBIE asking about a tren only cycle.Mind you,a fvkin' newbie was being told to do a short burst,high dose cycle.This is why this topic is very dangerous for this board.

Today, 08:44 PM
groundandpoundpwr21
Member



Fina only is a great cycle and one of the easiest to keep gains off of. Id say if its your first time with fina 50-75mg INJECTION every other day would be fine. Also after reading marcuses burst cycle post hit up fina for 6 weeks with standard




Need I say more?

~Pinnacle~

I suppose it might be a bit confusing for some that there are 2 diffrent approches to the same theory within this thread. So some might come to the conclusion that marcus' short heavy burst cycle is also suited for newbies..
Nevertheless I am with you on this one... Maybe you should simply delete this thread b4 someone gets hurt...

[Reprisal 6]

I suppose it might be a bit confusing for some that there are 2 diffrent approches to the same theory within this thread. So some might come to the conclusion that marcus' short heavy burst cycle is also suited for newbies..
Nevertheless I am with you on this one... Maybe you should simply delete this thread b4 someone gets hurt...

This has been one of the more interesting topics in a while. I'd hate to see it go because a few people may get in over their head with these ideas. Quite frankly, this isn't the first time dangerous advise has been circulated from newbie to newbie. I think a fair warning has been given repeatedly.

Either way, thanks to everyone who contributed.

[marcus300]

PI

Marcus..PLEASE DO NOT ACCOMODATE THESE KIDS

I also hope you are screening your PM's carefully.I've had quite a few enquiries and I went back and looked at thier posts to find out they've only had ONE cycle under thier belt.Needless to say,their PM's were deleted.
Granted,this is a nice topic of dicussion,but I really don't feel it's safe to keep pushing these short cycles on this board .There are far to many young newbies here,and someone is going to get hurt.
I'm seeing questions pop up in other forums on this board in regard to short cycle.In the lab a kid recently asked how to put 5 compounds in a 1cc solution so he can run a short cycle like you've been tallking about.As much as you try to stress this isn't for newbies,the more it's talked about,the odds are some kid is going to try this type cycle and really fvk himself up.Look at some of the ppl asking in this thread marcus.They don't have but one or 2 cycles under thier belt.Knowledge is fine,but to keep on pushing this type cycling on a newbie board such as this,is rather dangerous IMO...

~Pinnacle~

Pinn- I DONT ACCOMODATE ANY KIDS

I do my best to screen all the PM's and only give any kind of info to the ones who are educated enough,ive said it many times on alot of my posts that is not for any newbies, i dont keep pushing anything all i do is give information on this theory, i do understand that some might be stupid enough to even consider it and that is why i DONT post any dosages or cycles.

This is a great topic and very educational to the advance BB who has never used this system, I dont think anyone will get hurt because ive not told anyone to do anything, infact i feel other threads could be far more dangerous than this one, one example would be the thread about staying on for 5-7 years non stop, now i think that could really damage newbies. I state again i do not push anything its information.

The trouble what as happened is recently in the last few post other BB's have mentioned about short cycles for the newbies, which is nothing to do with this thread, i have stated this when it was posted, this is why recently people have been mentioning short cycle for the newbies.

THIS WAY OF CYCLING IS NOT FOR THE NEWBIE , ITS FOR THE ADVANCE BODYBUILDER WHO KNOWS HOW HIS BODY REACTS TO GEAR AND HAS PLENTY OF EXPERIENCE UNDER HIS BELT.


This thread is not pushing this system onto newbies, its for information to advanced bodybuilders,

Pinn, i asure you that i wont give any kind of dosages to any newbie, i thought you knew me better than that

Is that drink still on offer??

[marcus300]

As are probably 20 other ppl. Why don't you guys leave him alone and pick up the two books he mentioned in this thread, why is nobody willing to do any research but rather go off of somebodies word they have never met. Not targeting you "alwayson" as I don't know you, but everyone in general that jumps in excitement when a new theory or idea is introduced by a VET or senior member. If he said take 10grams of Test/wk I bet half of these guys would do it, no questions asked.

wise words,Fair comment Thanks.

This theory is not NEW its been around for years and has been used by many top BB's.