Winny Oral vs Inject Doses

[Andros]

I was wondering why people take much smaller doses of winny when its a tab then when its ijectable.

If its for the liver toxicity that is really stupid since even when injected the winny will go through the liver just as much as if it was eaten the only difference being that it doesn't necessarily hit first pass all in one before circulating around like when you eat it. But that won't affect the amount of liver fatigue per/mg.

[stupidhippo]

swifto: isnt the proportion metabolized by the skeletal muscle and the gut still very small? I mean most of the hormone is really metabolized by the liver in the end? Im not 100% sure so anyone who knows better please correct me..

[Swifto]

This is from Anthony Roberts talking about injectable vs. oral:

"So I think it’s safe to say that some of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass” through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs. injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract, where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.

First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they are) and other substances from the blood.

So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before ending up in circulation."

See that bit thats underlined. Isnt that a typo and meant to say when administered orally its more toxic?!

Just read it. I'm confused now!

[Property of Steroid.com]

This is from Anthony Roberts talking about injectable vs. oral:

!

Where is this from?

[Swifto]

Where is this from?

http://www.m es omorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/winstrol-oral-versus-injectable.htm

You'll have to correct the spaces as I think it will get *** out.

[FranKieC]

Where is this from?

Uh oh lol

[stupidhippo]

i dont know..... im also confused i mean it could be either.. my pharma knowledge isnt enough to exclude either...

[Swifto]

I think its a typo as he goes on to talk about orally absorbed winstrol first.

Dam...Where is AR when you need him?!

But surely the less a compounds passes through various organs and enters into circulation, the less toxic or damge its doing...?

[Swifto]

Anthony! Was it a typo?!

[skipp]

Anthony! Was it a typo?!

I don't think so, because if you take 100mg of Stan (oral) let's say 50% of that is metabolized in the gut, then it happens to go through the second pass so the other 50% is metabolized in the liver.

But if you inject 100% you're totally avoiding the first pass through the gut and it would all be filtered by the liver.. so it would be more than 50%, maybe not 100% but definatly more than the oral.

[Swifto]

I don't think so, because if you take 100mg of Stan (oral) let's say 50% of that is metabolized in the gut, then it happens to go through the second pass so the other 50% is metabolized in the liver.

But if you inject 100% you're totally avoiding the first pass through the gut and it would all be filtered by the liver.. so it would be more than 50%, maybe not 100% but definatly more than the oral.

Its metabolized into circulation. Injecting it bypass's this first metabolization process and it reaches circualtion almost instantly and will be metabolized through skeltalk muscle ASWELL as the liver. This way, less is metabolised by the liver. Right?

I understand what your saying though.

[skipp]

Its metabolized into circulation. Injecting it bypass's this first metabolization process and it reaches circualtion almost instantly and will be metabolized through skeltalk muscle ASWELL as the liver. This way, less is metabolised by the liver. Right?

I understand what your saying though.

Well the oral would be cut down to lets say 80% from the gut, then 40 and 40 go to the skelatal muscle and liver (40% each)

But with the injectable the 100% makes it in the blood so 50% and 50 get metabolized by the muscle and liver (50% each)


Now I doubt the ratio of what gets digested by the liver/skelatal muscle is 50/50, but it will be the same for both. So either way the liver does get a little more stress with the IM version..

I feel the gains achieved with the IM far surpass the extra liver toxcitiy.

[Swifto]

Well the oral would be cut down to lets say 80% from the gut, then 40 and 40 go to the skelatal muscle and liver (40% each)

But with the injectable the 100% makes it in the blood so 50% and 50 get metabolized by the muscle and liver (50% each)


Now I doubt the ratio of what gets digested by the liver/skelatal muscle is 50/50, but it will be the same for both. So either way the liver does get a little more stress with the IM version..

I feel the gains achieved with the IM far surpass the extra liver toxcitiy.

I dont know. Where you getting these numbers from?

[Swifto]

I'm totally lost.

[The_Canibal]

inject are by far better...

[skipp]

They're theoretical, but it doesn't matter what numbers you use. That's my point. The liver always gets less compound orally.

[Swifto]

Not that I dont disagree with your theory. I;d just like a second opinion.

I've PM'd some Mods/Vets.

[skipp]

Oh no definatly, I'm just thinking out loud. Let me know what you come up with.

There's a lot of things that sound great on paper and isn't even close to real life.

[Swifto]

I've asked Anthony to comment on the article he wrote. I wasnt sure if its a typo or I totally dont undertstand it...!

[G-1000]

I dont even see why this thread has went on this long.

Fist off for all you guys that think winny is miled your wrong. Winny is a very harsh compound.

There are meany reasons why winny dose is different from injectable to oral. Most people do not wont to run as high of a does with oral. this is because it will and dose pass throw the live 2x and is harder on the live.

Why is winny is injectable more potent is because or the nitrogen retention. You you do not have the brake down of the compound in the digestive system.

[Swifto]

I dont even see why this thread has went on this long.

Fist off for all you guys that think winny is miled your wrong. Winny is a very harsh compound.

There are meany reasons why winny dose is different from injectable to oral. Most people do not wont to run as high of a does with oral. this is because it will and dose pass throw the live 2x and is harder on the live.

Why is winny is injectable more potent is because or the nitrogen retention. You you do not have the brake down of the compound in the digestive system.

So winstrol is more toxic administered orally as it goes through more "passes"?

[G-1000]

So winstrol is more toxic administered orally as it goes through more "passes"?

Injectable bad

Oral worse.

[Swifto]

Injectable bad

Oral worse.

Thanks.

Guess AR's article has a typo then?

[*Narkissos*]

There are meany reasons why winny dose is different from injectable to oral. Most people do not wont to run as high of a does with oral. this is because it will and dose pass throw the live 2x and is harder on the live.

This is wrong.

Review the threads Pinnacle and BajanBastard posted with regard to oral dosing vs the injectable equivalent.

[G-1000]

This is wrong.

Review the threads Pinnacle and BajanBastard posted with regard to oral dosing vs the injectable equivalent.

I find that not to be true. I would like to see blood test. when i was on injct my liver values were much lower than when i was on oral.

[*Narkissos*]

I find that not to be true. I would like to see blood test. when i was on injct my liver values were much lower than when i was on oral.

This thread isn't about liver values.. of course liver enzyme values will be lower...

That's not the determining factor.

This thread is about serum values of the compound...

Both you and the original poster had the opening statement backward... or the rationale at least.

Less injectable is used..simply because with a dose of injectable v.s. an equivalent dose of oral... The serum value (circulatory value) will be higher with the injected... Higher than the serum value post-oral-ingestion

re: http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...41&postcount=7

Narkissos

[Swifto]

This is wrong.

Review the threads Pinnacle and BajanBastard posted with regard to oral dosing vs the injectable equivalent.

Nark, Do you think injectable Winstrol is less toxic as it avoids this "first pass".

And do you think AR made a typo in the atricle?

[*Narkissos*]

Nark, Do you think injectable Winstrol is less toxic as it avoids this "first pass".

And do you think AR made a typo in the atricle?

Personally i think toxicity is over-rated.

That being said, the toxicity of the compound does not change.. as the compound itself does not change.

Maybe ..yes the interaction is reduced/eliminated on the first pass due to it not being orally administered..

However, the circulatory activity of the compound is the same... Providing that the does administered injectably is equal to that administered orally, the same amount of compound will at some point have to be metabolised by the liver

Thus i'd hypothesize that the cumulative 'toxicity' is the same

Think about it.

Narkissos

[guest589745]

That confused me too. I think it would have to be mroe toxic when administered orally though in comparison to intramuscularly.

[G-1000]

Keep in mind that is at = doseage.

[G-1000]

Is the next ? going to be. If i drink winny is it worse then if i take a tab.

What is better a tab or a cap.

Why is a 10mg tab so much smaller then 10mg cap. Dose that mean the cap has more.

[G-1000]

Any one can wright an article and clame any thing they wish. This dose not mean thet it's 100% true. Most steroid article are theory with very little labe test research. And even when you do have labe research the is little humen tested on it. The most labe researched compompond is test and they still dont knew all the effects of it.

[G-1000]

That is what i said.

But if you up the dose of oral to = the same effect of the injec you going to incress the sides.

[*Narkissos*]

That is what i said.

But if you up the dose of oral to = the same effect of the injec you going to incress the sides.

The thread starter's question was: "I was wondering why people take much smaller doses of winny when its a tab then when its ijectable."

So you were answering the wrong question...because in all the cycles i've seen the tab dosage was higher...

For the reasons stated above.

[G-1000]

The thread starter's question was: "I was wondering why people take much smaller doses of winny when its a tab then when its ijectable."

So you were answering the wrong question...because in all the cycles i've seen the tab dosage was higher...

For the reasons stated above.

O ok i missed that part.

I thought you were just fuking with me.

[Swifto]

Ok. Thanks Nark.

[*Narkissos*]

O ok i missed that part.

I thought you were just fuking with me.

Me?

I'd never do that.

My Grandma said don't fuk with midgets

j/k

Ok. Thanks Nark.

np buddy.

Don't take my word for it tho...

Bumping this thread for someone smarter than myself

AR? BajanBastard? Marcus? guys where you at?

Nark

[Swifto]

Me?

I'd never do that.

My Grandma said don't fuk with midgets

j/k



np buddy.

Don't take my word for it tho...

Bumping this thread for someone smarter than myself

AR? BajanBastard? Marcus? guys where you at?

Nark

I understand how you put it.

I havent taken your word for it though...

Na...

Why would I want to do that..

Nark....

Pftt...

Whos he again?

[G-1000]

Me?

I'd never do that.

My Grandma said don't fuk with midgets

j/k



np buddy.

Don't take my word for it tho...

Bumping this thread for someone smarter than myself

AR? BajanBastard? Marcus? guys where you at?

Nark

[*Narkissos*]

uh oh indeed