Tbol and Proviron: ok to take both orals?

[ZIA1]

I'm taking 75mg of Proviron but I want to add tbol to my cycle. I am also taking Eq 600mg/wk and Prop 500mg/wk. Would I need to reduce the proviron in order to incorporate tbol?

[Smak]

Run the proviron at the end and tbol at the beginning.

[ZIA1]

Run the proviron at the end and tbol at the beginning.

Well, that's a problem. I already started my cycle and just came across the tbol today. I've been on proviron for about 2 weeks already. Could I simply stop the proviron and take the tbol and then start the proviron up again at the end?

[ZIA1]

Anyone else?

[vitor]

Yust run them both at the same time, no problem!

[Anabolios]

yeah proviron is not known to be toxic to the liver so youll be fine bro! at 75mg/ed ur libido is gonna be off the walls and with the test! good luck you should get really solid gains from that cycle

[ZIA1]

yeah proviron is not known to be toxic to the liver so youll be fine bro! at 75mg/ed ur libido is gonna be off the walls and with the test! good luck you should get really solid gains from that cycle

Does proviron start working almost immediately or does it need to build up in the system? I've been on it for about a week or so (10 days I think) and my libido is up but not off the walls.

[Seattle Junk]

Make sure to take Milk Thistle with your orals. Liver protectant. I love tbol, good stuff. No water, just solid gains.

[MASTER]

should be fine bro

[marcus300]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

[ZIA1]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

Anyone else agree with this?

[Maetenloch]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

Proviron has a high affinity for receptors, but it also activates them so this is a good thing. However most of the proviron you take is tied up by SHBG and much of the remainder is enzymatically deactivated in skeletal muscle through a DHT-feedback mechanism. The main benefit of proviron is that it 'sacrifices' itself on SHBG and aromatase, leaving other steroids free and preventing the formation of estrogen.

[Xtralarg]

Proviron has a high affinity for receptors, but it also activates them so this is a good thing. However most of the proviron you take is tied up by SHBG and much of the remainder is enzymatically deactivated in skeletal muscle through a DHT-feedback mechanism. The main benefit of proviron is that it 'sacrifices' itself on SHBG and aromatase, leaving other steroids free and preventing the formation of estrogen.

Can you explain this in laymans terms?

[MASTER]

Can you explain this in laymans terms?

Basically it helps free up test, so its usable

[Maetenloch]

Can you explain this in laymans terms?

Well proviron is DHT-based and so basically acts like DHT does in the body. DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is about 4 times stronger than test. Proviron is strongly attracted to SHBG, androgen receptors, and aromatase even more so than test or other steroids. So it's sort of a super-steroid in this sense. However, very little is active in skeletal muscle since the enzyme 3a-HSD deactivates it there. So proviron is like a super-androgen that is active everywhere EXCEPT for muscles - some of these areas are good like neurological tissue and some are bad like scalp tissue. It's effect in the brain and nervous system is why it increases strength and libido. On the other hand its effects on the scalp (for those with the right genes) is responsible for male pattern baldness. Since it is so strongly bound to SHBG, it keeps test from being bound, essentially raising free test levels. Furthermore by binding to the aromatase enzyme more strongly than test (but without being able to be converted to estrogen), it prevents the accumulation of estrogen from high levels of test. By itself proviron is a very weak anabolic, but it makes other anabolics much more effective.

[BajanBastard]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

Care to explain?

Use the proviron it's one of the best synergistic AAS there is.

[marcus300]

Care to explain?

Use the proviron it's one of the best synergistic AAS there is.

i know there are different theorys concerning proviron and i have read afew of them, i got my information from Paul Borreson who was a biochemist and a pharmacologist he studied the function of receptor sites and there use with steriods, he told me to use it 10 days before a contest to dry me out and hardend me up, he said not to use it with a cycle because it locks out all other steriods when it binds with a receptor, now i did try both ways and got to say i had better gains without it, there are always conflicting thoerys concerning steriods so best bet is to try it and see if it works or not works for you, but i know what i would do

[MASTER]

i know there are different theorys concerning proviron and i have read afew of them, i got my information from Paul Borreson who was a biochemist and a pharmacologist he studied the function of receptor sites and there use with steriods, he told me to use it 10 days before a contest to dry me out and hardend me up, he said not to use it with a cycle because it locks out all other steriods when it binds with a receptor, now i did try both ways and got to say i had better gains without it, there are always conflicting thoerys concerning steriods so best bet is to try it and see if it works or not works for you, but i know what i would do

yeh its all trial and error, no doctors are actually going to research the sorts of cycle we all do, because its wouldnt be "responsible" research, plus everyone reacts differently anyway!

[marcus300]

yeh its all trial and error, no doctors are actually going to research the sorts of cycle we all do, because its wouldnt be "responsible" research, plus everyone reacts differently anyway!

fine words JC, this is the trouble we are all up against, i do trust what Paul said he was the steriod doctor to so many top pro's but like we have said try it for yourself thats the best way to solve it, costly but will solve the problem

[BajanBastard]

i know there are different theorys concerning proviron and i have read afew of them, i got my information from Paul Borreson who was a biochemist and a pharmacologist he studied the function of receptor sites and there use with steriods, he told me to use it 10 days before a contest to dry me out and hardend me up, he said not to use it with a cycle because it locks out all other steriods when it binds with a receptor, now i did try both ways and got to say i had better gains without it, there are always conflicting thoerys concerning steriods so best bet is to try it and see if it works or not works for you, but i know what i would do

That's the part i don't get. It's not like the ARs just sit there and get clogged with proviron or something. The AR is constantly being used and replenished and using steroids increase the numbers. If i remember correctly proviron does not bind to the AR that well anyway. Testosterone, nandrolone, methenolone, trenbolone all bind to the AR better than proviron.

[marcus300]

That's the part i don't get. It's not like the ARs just sit there and get clogged with proviron or something. The AR is constantly being used and replenished and using steroids increase the numbers. If i remember correctly proviron does not bind to the AR that well anyway. Testosterone, nandrolone, methenolone, trenbolone all bind to the AR better than proviron.

yes i have read this also but ive looked back to see if i can find what paul said and i have looked at his underground video and he mentions it there, he explains it like this - there are many different steriods and they respond differently to our AR by this i mean how quickley get there, how long there stay there when locked it and how well they lock in, proviron when used locks in and will not let any other steriod into it while it is there, proviron is ideal for contest prep to lock out all other steriods and make you harder and lose the water.
like i said i did try both ways and i built far better and more muscle without it but for pct or contest it amazing stuff, we can read what we like and listen to alsorts of different reports but i feel we have to try both ways to find out what works for you, this is for all steriods/cycles/stacks

[*Narkissos*]

Care to explain?

Use the proviron it's one of the best synergistic AAS there is.

Ditto.

Marcus your mentor's theory is like a seive:

full of holes

[H BOMB]

i only run prov when i am not running test.

just run 10-20mg of nolva a day depending on how sensitive you are. or you could go with adex or aromasin if you have access

[marcus300]

J martini, yeh ive read the article aswell as loads of others, i could cut and paste afew aswell i THOUGHT YOU DIDNT TAKE EVERYTHING YOU READ AS TRUE? i knew PB and i knew which people were in contact with him and believe me they were top pro's he built hugh men, but they didnt like paul talking about his methods which makes sense, i do know the truth what happened with paul and its not very nice, Ian Harrison was pauls best friend ive got the video they both did about AAS, training and diets, paul knew his stuff he was years ahead of the game but after he broke his back things started to go wrong for him, he wasnt a very happy man because he couldnt train and it effected him mentaly he used high dosages of pain killers just to feel normal and train, which was his mistake, he was pushed out of a certain supplement company, theres loads more but you should read all the articles not just one, he changed the way we treat Aids victims with his research into receptors and steroids his life was pharmacology and bodybuilding, now i dont agree with some of his methods but he did speak alot of truth, i only know what he told me and my experiences with his cycle theories, i quote from your statement -all im saying is i would not take anything anyone says literally no matter who they are. exactly you have to make up your own mind with your own experiences with AAS and not what someone says does or doesnt happen with a certain compound, if you like doing your way thats fine but dont knock a man because you you read it, cant you see alot of the pro's didnt like him talking to the public because they are all drug free arent they?? take you blinkers off...

[j martini]

J martini, yeh ive read the article aswell as loads of others, i could cut and paste afew aswell i THOUGHT YOU DIDNT TAKE EVERYTHING YOU READ AS TRUE? i knew PB and i knew which people were in contact with him and believe me they were top pro's he built hugh men, but they didnt like paul talking about his methods which makes sense, i do know the truth what happened with paul and its not very nice, Ian Harrison was pauls best friend ive got the video they both did about AAS, training and diets, paul knew his stuff he was years ahead of the game but after he broke his back things started to go wrong for him, he wasnt a very happy man because he couldnt train and it effected him mentaly he used high dosages of pain killers just to feel normal and train, which was his mistake, he was pushed out of a certain supplement company, theres loads more but you should read all the articles not just one, he changed the way we treat Aids victims with his research into receptors and steroids his life was pharmacology and bodybuilding, now i dont agree with some of his methods but he did speak alot of truth, i only know what he told me and my experiences with his cycle theories, i quote from your statement -all im saying is i would not take anything anyone says literally no matter who they are. exactly you have to make up your own mind with your own experiences with AAS and not what someone says does or doesnt happen with a certain compound, if you like doing your way thats fine but dont knock a man because you you read it, cant you see alot of the pro's didnt like him talking to the public because they are all drug free arent they?? take you blinkers off...

Yeah your right im sure a lot of pros who might have worked with him didnt want it to be known, but that was partly pauls own fault as well because he openly discussed what they use, as opposed to someone like Chad Nicholls who doesnt give away any of there secrets.

But lets just leave this topic alone Paul Borreson is dead may he rest in peace, im sure he had plenty of good ideas and theorys on AAS and some not so good just like most gurus. I was just stateing that i thought that he was off the mark as far as proviron was concerned.

Lets leave it at the Peace Bro.

[BajanBastard]

That article was interesting but anyone who knows about the supp industry knows it's filled with a bunch of cut-throats so i can't believe all if any of it.

Honestly this Paul dude is starting to look like a fraud. Not because of the interview but because of his claims of being a bio-chemist/doctor. I find it hard to believe a real bio-chemist would over-look something as simple as androgen receptor up-regulation and provirons binding affinity to the AR, basically how androgens work within the human body. This is not theory or speculation this is fact.

If you want me to post the study comparing proviron to other AAS i can.

[vitor]

Proviron doesnt bind to the andogen recepter in the muscle because most of it will enzymatically be converted to the diol. So, to say proviron blocks the recepter for other androgens is complete nonsense. Proviron does howerer, bind to SHBG, so more free test will be realised in the body. Proviron also effects the CNS, because it works in the body in an unknown dht-manner, and this promotes more strenght and increased libido. Therefor proviron will make other steroids more effective. It also works greate as a bridge for keeping strenght gains, keeping libido up and will basically mask the feeling of being shut down or supressed in PCT.

[marcus300]

Proviron doesnt bind to the andogen recepter in the muscle because most of it will enzymatically be converted to the diol. So, to say proviron blocks the recepter for other androgens is complete nonsense. Proviron does howerer, bind to SHBG, so more free test will be realised in the body. Proviron also effects the CNS, because it works in the body in an unknown dht-manner, and this promotes more strenght and increased libido. Therefor proviron will make other steroids more effective. It also works greate as a bridge for keeping strenght gains, keeping libido up and will basically mask the feeling of being shut down or supressed in PCT.

yes i understand this and ive read the article aswell, but been research today and found 2 articles saying that the different, one says it should never be taken with a course but for pct only and the other one says only with a cycle and not for pct, conflicting article just like alot of stuff we read, all we can do is do it from experience and how it is for you, ive done both and i like it better for pct,, do a search on receptors and proviron on google and read them for yourselves, if your happy with the gains gains your making change nothing,
also ive heard all the storys about paul and no matter what you may think he was far head of his time with his studys on AR +ASS

[j martini]

yes i understand this and ive read the article aswell, but been research today and found 2 articles saying that the different, one says it should never be taken with a course but for pct only and the other one says only with a cycle and not for pct, conflicting article just like alot of stuff we read, all we can do is do it from experience and how it is for you, ive done both and i like it better for pct,, do a search on receptors and proviron on google and read them for yourselves, if your happy with the gains gains your making change nothing,
also ive heard all the storys about paul and no matter what you may think he was far head of his time with his studys on AR +ASS

Thats right mate there is so many different opinons on how to use AAS many of which are conflicting, the best bet is to study and decide for yourself what sounds right and apply it.

Bottom line is do what works for you there is no real right or wrong way to use AAS.

[marcus300]

Thats right mate there is so many different opinons on how to use AAS many of which are conflicting, the best bet is to study and decide for yourself what sounds right and apply it.

Bottom line is do what works for you there is no real right or wrong way to use AAS.

exactly my friend, thanks for the discussion......fine words

[BajanBastard]

yes i understand this and ive read the article aswell, but been research today and found 2 articles saying that the different, one says it should never be taken with a course but for pct only and the other one says only with a cycle and not for pct, conflicting article just like alot of stuff we read, all we can do is do it from experience and how it is for you, ive done both and i like it better for pct,, do a search on receptors and proviron on google and read them for yourselves, if your happy with the gains gains your making change nothing,
also ive heard all the storys about paul and no matter what you may think he was far head of his time with his studys on AR +ASS

Many articles on the net are usually written by people who never did an ounce of credible AAS research in their life. Did the articles have refs? I when i was writing steroid profiles for this site, i learned one very important thing..........99% of the AAS write-ups by the proposed 'experts' were utter BS. Nothing but myths and hear say.

[marcus300]

Many articles on the net are usually written by people who never did an ounce of credible AAS research in their life. Did the articles have refs? I when i was writing steroid profiles for this site, i learned one very important thing..........99% of the AAS write-ups by the proposed 'experts' were utter BS. Nothing but myths and hear say.

hey we agree for once, exactly my point experience in using AAS is priceless.
there is no black or white when using chemicals within the body,