Estrogen Will It Effect My Gains

[Merc..]

ESTROGEN
Will it effect my gains ?
BY Merc.

When you talk about testosterone you also usually hear words like , estrogen and aromatase ..

Most people that use AAS understand that testosterone converts to estrogen ( via the aromatase enzyme) this causes problems like bloating , gyno as well as other sides .. People have been posting alot about using AI's and asking about how estrogen relates to gains.

Well estrogen is important in building muscle. Estrogen has been connected to increasing GH and IGF-1 . Testosterone's effects are dependent on aromatization to esterogen ..


If you look at what they give cattle to put on mass its estradiol. If they use only One compound to put mass on they use estradiol ( Anthony Roberts did a radio interview on this recently) .. Estrogen's role is an important one .. You hear of alot of people that use AI's reporting that thier gains are greatly reduced . The AI's reduce thier estrogen levels too much which effects Growth factors( GH , IGF) and reduces thier gains.

I have a buddy that had done 2 cycles. The first using test E at 500 mg every week with Adex at 0.5 EOD.. For his second cycle he used 600 mg of Cyp every week with 40 mg of Dbol everyday for a kick start and Adex at 0.5 EOD.. He ate right and trained right on both of his cycles .. He was not gaining on his cycles like he should have been ( and yes his gear was legit ).. I had told him about estrogen's role in building muscle.. He listened but didn't really understand everything about it .. I explained it again and he started to catch on to what I was explaining.. This was at the end of his second cycle.. He made an appointment with his Doc and asked him if he could order some blood work .. The doctor ordered a total testosterone and total estrogen blood test.. His estrogen was extremely low.. He then finished his cycle and did a proper pct and took time off to recover ..

Than he did another cycle using Dbol, Test E 600 mg per week, no AI . This time around he totally transformed his body . People that didn't see him in a few months didn't even recognize him. He went to the doctor again and asked for blood work while he was on cycle ( wk 7 I think) .. This time his estrogen was high ( something like 300 ng/ml, 120 ng/ml or less is in range).. His strength was through the roof and he said that there was a great sense of well being and that his energy level was way up. There were no real sides that where experienced. I saw him alot while he was on cycle and he never really looked bloated.

If you do a search on here you will see that alot of people are reporting that AI's are effecting thier gains .. I think AI's are a important compound to consider using, but keep in mind that estrogen's role is a important one .

Gyno also needs estrogen to form ( as well as progesterone, GH and IGF). So you also need to take into consideration that too much estrogen can cause problems....

Well there has been a lot of people asking if taking an AI will effect gains so I wanted to write this to give a little bit of input on estrogen's effects on building muscle..

[3bd]

Very informative Merc... and at just the right time for me. I have all my AI's and SERM's on hand and i know what to look for. i think i'm going to lay off all of them for a bit and see what happens. i don't know why i was so paranoid to begin with... i went damn near 18 weeks my first cycle with no AI's until the very end... my gains werer phanominal compared to this cycle, which i am using arimidex or letro eod in very small amounts (.15mg/dose). thanks again

[305GUY]

im one of the unlucky ones that if i dont take an AI my nipples kill me. I dont want man boobies..

nice post merc

[anhukem]

im one of the unlucky ones that if i dont take an AI my nipples kill me. I dont want man boobies..

nice post merc

killing you like what? what´s the feeling when gyno starts to appear or want to appear so you can prepare yourself?

great post!

[Merc..]

im one of the unlucky ones that if i dont take an AI my nipples kill me. I dont want man boobies..

nice post merc

What doses of test do you use ?

Merc.

[5ifthCitizen]

i dunno what doses he uses but i have the same problem. i HAVE to take ridiculous amounts of either letro or adex to control it...... never use more than 450mg test/ same of deca

[305GUY]

killing you like what? what´s the feeling when gyno starts to appear or want to appear so you can prepare yourself?

great post!

by "killing me" i just mean soreness. The worst part is when some how i put pressure on my nip and thats when the soreness really bothers. I also get lumps occasionally but they always go away during PCT.

What doses of test do you use ?

Merc.

i never exceed 750mg/week.

ive tried armidex .5mg EOD but i notice on the day i dont take it my nips really bother me.
i've also tries .5mg ED which works great for my nips but really affects my sex drive negatively.
My perfect dose is .25mg ED which controls nipple ssoreness quite well but if some how i put pressure on my nip is when my nip kills me!

OFF TOPIC: does anyone else not like the new board format where if a new post quotes an old one, the new one goes straight up to the old post. maybe i'm weird. lol

[perfectbeast2001]

im one of the unlucky ones that if i dont take an AI my nipples kill me. I dont want man boobies..

nice post merc

Then lower your AS dosages

[buffgator]

nice post merc. I never use anything while bulking, unless it is to control gyno. I still have not figured out the right balance for cutting though. If i take arim I dont get the water and estrogen fat gains, but I dont gain muscle and feel horrible and flat, if I dont take anything it is just the opposite.

[Merc..]

nice post merc. I never use anything while bulking, unless it is to control gyno. I still have not figured out the right balance for cutting though. If i take arim I dont get the water and estrogen fat gains, but I dont gain muscle and feel horrible and flat, if I dont take anything it is just the opposite.

What doses of Adex do you use??



Merc.

[buffgator]

What doses of Adex do you use??



Merc.

I am using .25mg every day. I always ran it at .5mg every day, and that might have been overkill.

[Big]

good post merc!!!

[Merc..]

Bump


Merc.

[vitor]

ESTROGEN
Will it effect my gains ?
BY Merc.



When you talk about testosterone you also usually hear words like , estrogen and aromatase ..

Most people that use AAS understand that testosterone converts to estrogen ( via the aromatase enzyme) this causes problems like bloating , gyno as well as other sides .. People have been posting alot about using AI's and asking about how estrogen relates to gains.

Well estrogen is important in building muscle. Estrogen has been connected to increasing GH and IGF-1 . Testosterone's effects are dependent on aromatization to esterogen ..


If you look at what they give cattle to put on mass its estradiol. If they use only One compound to put mass on they use estradiol ( Anthony Roberts did a radio interview on this recently) .. Estrogen's role is an important one .. You hear of alot of people that use AI's reporting that thier gains are greatly reduced . The AI's reduce thier estrogen levels too much which effects Growth factors( GH , IGF) and reduces thier gains.

I have a buddy that had done 2 cycles. The first using test E at 500 mg every week with Adex at 0.5 EOD.. For his second cycle he used 600 mg of Cyp every week with 40 mg of Dbol everyday for a kick start and Adex at 0.5 EOD.. He ate right and trained right on both of his cycles .. He was not gaining on his cycles like he should have been ( and yes his gear was legit ).. I had told him about estrogen's role in building muscle.. He listened but didn't really understand everything about it .. I explained it again and he started to catch on to what I was explaining.. This was at the end of his second cycle.. He made an appointment with his Doc and asked him if he could order some blood work .. The doctor ordered a total testosterone and total estrogen blood test.. His estrogen was extremely low.. He then finished his cycle and did a proper pct and took time off to recover ..

Than he did another cycle using Dbol, Test E 600 mg per week, no AI . This time around he totally transformed his body . People that didn't see him in a few months didn't even recognize him. He went to the doctor again and asked for blood work while he was on cycle ( wk 7 I think) .. This time his estrogen was high ( something like 300 ng/ml, 120 ng/ml or less is in range).. His strength was through the roof and he said that there was a great sense of well being and that his energy level was way up. There were no real sides that where experienced. I saw him alot while he was on cycle and he never really looked bloated.

If you do a search on here you will see that alot of people are reporting that AI's are effecting thier gains .. I think AI's are a important compound to consider using, but keep in mind that estrogen's role is a important one .

Gyno also needs estrogen to form ( as well as progesterone, GH and IGF). So you also need to take into consideration that too much estrogen can cause problems....

Well there has been a lot of people asking if taking an AI will effect gains so I wanted to write this to give a little bit of input on estrogen's effects of building muscle..

What if someone used GH on hes cycles?

Estrogen roles thrue the GH, IGF pathway, would then be insignificant, Even when using a strong AI.

Is there other pathways that estrogen could be anabolic?

There seems to be easier to recover from a cycle when using an AI though, its very possible that high estrogen levels could harm the leydig cells...

[Merc..]

What if someone used GH on hes cycles?

Estrogen roles thrue the GH, IGF pathway, would then be insignificant, Even when using a strong AI.

Is there other pathways that estrogen could be anabolic?

There seems to be easier to recover from a cycle when using an AI though, its very possible that high estrogen levels could harm the leydig cells...

Good post..

I would like to get some feedback from people who used GH and an AI in thier cycle ?

Merc.

[Shane35aa]

Good Info. Thanks Merc

[dblock189]

Yea Merc, I'm with 305 guy too..if i dont use ai's my nipples hurt. I do know what you mean the role of estrogen. I'm on a current cycyle and im using less ai then ususal and my gains are so much better. nipples are sensitive still and im on letro.

[bpm1]

awesome as always merc, thanks

[Merc..]

i dunno what doses he uses but i have the same problem. i HAVE to take ridiculous amounts of either letro or adex to control it...... never use more than 450mg test/ same of deca

What ( AI) doses do you use?

Merc.

[5ifthCitizen]

What ( AI) doses do you use?

Merc.

ive tried letro ED at .25mg and .5 mg, probably helps about 50% with the gyno, so then ive tried using nolva with it also and that helps a little more but it kills my gains.

tried letro from .5 to 1.5mg/day. helps the gyno about 80-90%.

[mr newbreed]

so would you say that if no signs of gyno are evident leave the nolva and letro alone?
ive just started a cutting cycle
week 1-6 t3
week 1-12 test prop
week 1-12 tren
week 8-12 anavar
taking nolva everyday 20mgs

[Merc..]

so would you say that if no signs of gyno are evident leave the nolva and letro alone?
ive just started a cutting cycle
week 1-6 t3
week 1-12 test prop
week 1-12 tren
week 8-12 anavar
taking nolva everyday 20mgs

Nolva increases PgR and gives more for the 19 nors ( trens) metabolites to bind to and can possibly increase your chances of getting gyno..


Merc.

[mr newbreed]

so leave it alone?.if gyno was to start what would i be using

[number twelve]

good post merc.

whats your opinion on AI's during pct? i have found great sucess with them...

[Merc..]

good post merc.

whats your opinion on AI's during pct? i have found great sucess with them...

Yea I like using aromasin for my AI ( in pct) ..

I am on HRT now but when I did pct I used Hookers protocol..



Merc.

[PEWN]

good read merc....

[vitor]

One thing that is for sure; higher estrogen levels on a cycle will make you hold more water and glycogen(this will be less pronounced the leaner you are). If someone is 15%bf or higher chances are there will be significant more water stored in fat-cells, when estrogen levels go up.

Since this will increase scaleweight and bodysize, people will often mistakenly think they are gaining more...But higher scaleweight doesnt need to mean more LBM. So, not using an AI can sometimes give you an false impression of gains...

But the question remains: Is Estrogen anabolic thrue another pathway than by increasing levels of gh/igf?

[Merc..]

One thing that is for sure; higher estrogen levels on a cycle will make you hold more water and glycogen(this will be less pronounced the leaner you are). If someone is 15%bf or higher chances are there will be significant more water stored in fat-cells, when estrogen levels go up.

Since this will increase scaleweight and bodysize, people will often mistakenly think they are gaining more...But higher scaleweight doesnt need to mean more LBM. So, not using an AI can sometimes give you an false impression of gains...

But the question remains: Is Estrogen anabolic thrue another pathway than by increasing levels of gh/igf?

4-androstenedione ..


Merc.

[football2007]

I would love to not take AI's...but I have to...or here come man titties.

I wish I wasn't gyno prone.... I would most certainly make better gains.

[vitor]

I would love to not take AI's...but I have to...or here come man titties.

I wish I wasn't gyno prone.... I would most certainly make better gains.

If you feel that way, use an serm. They will not decrease estrogen..

If you take nolva, yust replace that with GH at a suitable dosage, to make up for the decrease nolva will make in igf levels.

[football2007]

I'm using NPP at the moment...so using nolva is kinna outta the question.

[Amorphic]

very informative post merc.

[Information]

Moved

[Merc..]

Moved

Thanks Admin ....



Merc.

[mr newbreed]

so just to finalize,do you recomend running any AI even if there is no sign of gyno,or should it be used as and when needed?

[Merc..]

so just to finalize,do you recomend running any AI even if there is no sign of gyno,or should it be used as and when needed?

If using tren I would consider using letro the entire cycle , from the start .... ( another benefit IMO is that letro has been shown to lower PgR )

Letro is strong and alot of people dont seem to like it ... Like I said I had to play with the dose ..


Merc.

[anhukem]

If using tren I would consider using letro the entire cycle , from the start .... ( another benefit IMO is that letro has been shown to lower PgR )

Letro is strong and alot of people dont seem to like it ... Like I said I had to play with the dose ..


Merc.

what the dose of letro that you use?

[Elite1287]

great post bro, very informative

[moush]

good post Merc...always comin through in the clutch.

I dont need any AI's during cycle - I may use nolva to keep bloat down but thats it...PCT i always used to use clomid and nolva but this time around I am going to use Aromasin and nolva.

[mr newbreed]

good post Merc...always comin through in the clutch.

I dont need any AI's during cycle - I may use nolva to keep bloat down but thats it...PCT i always used to use clomid and nolva but this time around I am going to use Aromasin and nolva.

yeah everything ive read off merc is really informative/helped me alot so far.
IN your opinion then would you only run an AI if gyno started,if i didnt just leave it alone