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  1. #1
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    Philidelphia to Boy Scouts: Renounce Ban on Gays, or No More Free Rent

    Philidelphia City Solicitor Tells Local Boy Scouts Branch to Renounce Its Ban on Gays or Lose Rent Subsidy

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111800949.html


    By Dafna Linzer
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Monday, November 19, 2007

    PHILADELPHIA -- This may be the last free Thanksgiving dinner for the Boy Scouts of Philadelphia.

    Citing a local 1982 "fair practices" law, the city solicitor has given the Scouts until Dec. 3 to renounce its policy of excluding homosexuals or forfeit the grand, Beaux-Arts building it has rented from the city for $1 a year since 1928.


    "While we respect the right of the Boy Scouts to prohibit participation in its activities by homosexuals," the solicitor, Romulo Diaz, said last week in an interview, "we will not subsidize that discrimination by passing on the costs to the people of Philadelphia."

    The city has yet to complete an official assessment of the property. But it has tentatively placed the market value at $200,000 a year and has invited the Boy Scouts to remain in the nearly 100-year-old building as paying tenants.

    The confrontation between the city and the nation's third-largest Scouts chapter has been building for four years, with each side blaming the other for backing out of previous agreements and for escalating tensions.
    The local branch, which operates as the Cradle of Liberty Council, tried to skirt the bylaw in 2004 by issuing a four-line statement, which concluded: "Prejudice, intolerance and unlawful discrimination in any form are unacceptable within the ranks of Cradle of Liberty Council."

    The statement satisfied the city until gay rights groups worried that "unlawful discrimination" gave the chapter cover to continue the anti-homosexual hiring practices of the Boy Scouts of America.

    "We thought it meant unlawful under the city code," Diaz said. "But when community folks started to complain, we asked for a clarification and got no response."

    The Supreme Court ruled seven years ago that the national Boy Scouts, as a private organization, had the right to exclude homosexuals from its ranks. The Boy Scouts also prohibit atheists and agnostics from employment on the grounds that such beliefs are inconsistent with the values of the country's largest youth organization. Two years ago, Congress passed the Support Our Scouts Act to protect chapters from local government attempts to strip them of access to public facilities in response to the anti-homosexual policy.

    Jeff Jubelirer, a spokesman for Cradle of Liberty, said the chapter, hoping to save its historic headquarters, had sought to renounce an affiliation with the national policy when the dispute with the city arose in 2003.




    "We were trying to be amenable to all sides, but National would not allow us to keep that language, so we rescinded it. We can't have a policy where we put in specific words that National won't allow or we'll loose our charter. We can't afford not to be part of the national Boy Scouts," he said.

    Jubelirer said Cradle of Liberty has not received any complaints from an individual claiming discrimination. While the national application for scout leaders clearly states that employment is not open to homosexuals, Jubelirer suggested the local chapter has been operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for other employees.

    "It's not something that is asked" of applicants, he said. "But if someone were to come forward with something regarding sexual orientation, political beliefs, atheism or communism, that would be a problem."
    Cradle of Liberty says it serves more than 64,000 youths, mostly from the inner city, and that, as a result, its programming is centered more on mentoring and after-school programs instead of suburban camping trips. But it also hosts the oldest scouting event in the country, a three-day annual encampment at Valley Forge. Each year, thousands of troops gather to commemorate the harsh winter that George Washington spent there with Continental army soldiers.




    Jubelirer said the council board has not decided how it will respond on Dec. 3 and is weig-hing its options, including a legal fight. What it would like is another compromise, and Jubelirer said it is hoping the city's next Democratic mayor, Michael Nutter, will be more amenable to a deal after his January swearing-in.
    But Diaz said he had the support of Nutter and the city council, which voted in May to evict the Scouts if they did not change the policy.
    "If I do not receive an executed lease, signed by the Boy Scouts, to remain as tenants paying a fair market rent, we will begin looking for alternative tenants that can take over the property June 1, 2008," Diaz said.
    Last edited by Tock; 11-19-2007 at 09:34 PM.

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    Sounds like a fair deal to me.

    If it was some other charity that wouldn't let Jehovah Witnesses or Catholics or Mormons or Atheists join (oops, the Boy Scouts won't let Atheists join), why should the city bother to give them free rent?

    If the Boy Scouts decide to continue its anti-gay and anti-unbeleiver policy, I'm sure that some other service provider will come along to take their place. It's not like Philidelphia is running low on charities and charity administrators, especially ones that get to operate with cheap rent.
    Last edited by Tock; 11-19-2007 at 10:15 PM.

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    I agree Tock. This should be interesting. The Boy Scouts have no choice to either pay up or move since renouncing the ban on Gays isn't going to happen. With that said .. I'm sure an organization like the Boy Scouts can come up with the 200K to cover the cost of rent yearly don't you think?

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    Renounce it...shit. Just another example of a wonderful and charitable institution being brought down by a few complainers.

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    there are so many gay ppl philadelphia this wont last long. I dont mean this in a bad way its just that ive got used to seeing 2 guys walking down the street holding hands. So a matter of time before they protest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexed View Post
    there are so many gay ppl philadelphia this wont last long. I dont mean this in a bad way its just that ive got used to seeing 2 guys walking down the street holding hands. So a matter of time before they protest
    I know, i live in phila.

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    really DSM?

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    Yes. I lived in phila all my life.

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    same here im in philly for the week with family for thanksgiving then back to state college... I think I saw you before at Club Shampoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexed View Post
    same here im in philly for the week with family for thanksgiving then back to state college... I think I saw you before at Club Shampoo
    Never been to shampoo never want to (hear bad stuff about it). Now if you want to see me go to bars like 12th air and occasionally Woodys

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    Never been to shampoo never want to (hear bad stuff about it). Now if you want to see me go to bars like 12th air and occasionally Woodys
    lol @ woody's havent heard that name in a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixxerboy1 View Post
    lol @ woody's havent heard that name in a while.
    Its not the best place to go but a lot of people know of that place mostly because of the catchy name. Most peoples first gay bar experience happens at that bar.

    I just go for the young meat ! haha (j/k.....i think)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    Its not the best place to go but a lot of people know of that place mostly because of the catchy name. Most peoples first gay bar experience happens at that bar.

    I just go for the young meat ! haha (j/k.....i think)
    When i'm poor i go there to get free drinks.

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    lol....

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    I hope the Scouts tell the city to shove the building up their collective asses. Let Philly rent it out NAMBLA for all I care. Got a problem with it?? Damn right I do. Just as I would be against a hetro male applying to work as a GIRL SCOUT LEADER, I am against a homo male working with Boy Scouts. My issue is protecting the kids..not some PC agenda run by losers and pervs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teabagger View Post
    I hope the Scouts tell the city to shove the building up their collective asses. Let Philly rent it out NAMBLA for all I care. Got a problem with it?? Damn right I do. Just as I would be against a hetro male applying to work as a GIRL SCOUT LEADER, I am against a homo male working with Boy Scouts. My issue is protecting the kids..not some PC agenda run by losers and pervs.
    Thats a pretty flawed logic. To classify a homosexual as a peadophile just because they happen to like the same sex, does NOT mean that they are attracted to young children.

    Spare me the rhetoric on "protecting the children," thats the main reason being given for just about every injustice that the American people are undergoing right now, that and "terrorism." Rememeber, that the beaurocrats in Washington are using the "protect the children" bullshit, to fight their war against performance enhancing drugs that we hold dear. Remember that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    Thats a pretty flawed logic. To classify a homosexual as a peadophile just because they happen to like the same sex, does NOT mean that they are attracted to young children.

    Spare me the rhetoric on "protecting the children," thats the main reason being given for just about every injustice that the American people are undergoing right now, that and "terrorism." Rememeber, that the beaurocrats in Washington are using the "protect the children" bullshit, to fight their war against performance enhancing drugs that we hold dear. Remember that...
    Thanks for writing that. I didn't have the time...

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    Theres nothing wrong with wanting a hetero christian male for a scout leader. That is what I choose for my son and many people, apparently, want the same thing for their sons.


    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    Thats a pretty flawed logic. To classify a homosexual as a peadophile just because they happen to like the same sex, does NOT mean that they are attracted to young children.

    Spare me the rhetoric on "protecting the children," thats the main reason being given for just about every injustice that the American people are undergoing right now, that and "terrorism." Rememeber, that the beaurocrats in Washington are using the "protect the children" bullshit, to fight their war against performance enhancing drugs that we hold dear. Remember that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with wanting a hetero christian male for a scout leader. That is what I choose for my son and many people, apparently, want the same thing for their sons.
    Indeed, I understand that and as Scouting is for the kids and NOT for the leaders, I fully support their right to pick and choose adult leaders.

    But I also understand that the city has a right not to use taxpayers money to subsidize (with money or "free rent") an organisation that discriminates against a certain group of people.

    Remember that the Boy Scouts of America don't just refuse gay leaders, but they also discriminate and "excommunicate" gay youths. That is where I have a problem. A young man of 16 or 17, model Scout for years, pillar of society, well on his way to Eagle Scout who "comes out of the closet" will get a one way ticket out of the BSA.

    Red

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    Theres just something about a bunch of dudes camping out in the woods, sleeping in tents with each other... I'd want to make damn sure no one had any alterior motives. Good example about the girl scouts from Teabagger... I don't want some dude whos going to try to fukk my son taking a bunch of boys on a camping trip. Its not about intolerance, its about protecting your kids and making sure they don't get their wieners fondled and buttholes widened.
    Last edited by AandF6969; 11-21-2007 at 12:05 AM.

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    This thread is gay

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    Schools do not consider bullying just bullying anymore. In many cases they are calling it harassment or assault. I think that kids need normal social interaction, I am not a fan of homeschooling, I've met quite a few homeschooled children and adults, and they just really lack a lot of the social skills that most people have.

    Harassment and Assault are not accepted in everyday society, there are legal consequences, so why should we justify it in schools?

    Other than that, I'm gonna bow out of this argument guys. I do think my comments comparing the people to Galileo and such were a little off base, so I'll admit to that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    I think that kids need normal social interaction, I am not a fan of homeschooling, I've met quite a few homeschooled children and adults, and they just really lack a lot of the social skills that most people have.
    This is something I've always wondered about. Specifically, what kinds of social skills do they tend to lack, in your experience?

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    our schools teach a wide curriculum of studies that can cater for most individuals. we create cultural, social and possibly ecconomic boundries with schools like these, wether it be to specifically teach gay kids or jews or muslims or christians it can create a kind of separatism as it were. which i believe is very un-healthy for a global society which is becoming so closely connected. by all means keep your cultural identity and practice your beliefs but do it in a way that does not isolate you from other parts of society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by helium3 View Post
    our schools teach a wide curriculum of studies that can cater for most individuals.
    Most being the key word. I went to a predominately White school in the midwest and the only thing we learned about Black history is slavery and George Washington Carver had a thing for peanut butter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
    Most being the key word. I went to a predominately White school in the midwest and the only thing we learned about Black history is slavery and George Washington Carver had a thing for peanut butter.
    We are about the same age and I also went to school in the Midwest, all of my life in fact. We always had a rather extensive curriculum in regards to black history, which included visiting the many "underground railroad" sites in my hometown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13 View Post
    We are about the same age and I also went to school in the Midwest, all of my life in fact. We always had a rather extensive curriculum in regards to black history, which included visiting the many "underground railroad" sites in my hometown.
    What state? Were there minorities at your school? Our school was all White, just our family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
    What state? Were there minorities at your school? Our school was all White, just our family.
    Iowa. I went to k-5 in a working class neighborhood that actually had quite a few hispanics in it, but only about 10% were black. I really enjoyed going to school K-5. I never remember people using the N word, refering to someone by their skin color (he's that black kid). In high school, all of that seemed to change. I never understood what caused that change, but we did have alot more blacks in high school than we did in the earlier grades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
    Most being the key word. I went to a predominately White school in the midwest and the only thing we learned about Black history is slavery and George Washington Carver had a thing for peanut butter.
    american history, wether it be black or white isnt very extensive anyway.unless you include native indian tribes etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by helium3 View Post
    american history, wether it be black or white isnt very extensive anyway.unless you include native indian tribes etc.
    We were taught American and European history in middle school. I just think it's funny because only 40-50% of my school was of European descent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scriptfactory View Post
    We were taught American and European history in middle school. I just think it's funny because only 40-50% of my school was of European descent.
    But we are all, nonetheless, Americans........
    Black Culture Club seems to get alot more in depth than the regular curriculum. But keep in mind, we did not spend anytime on Irish or Sioux history. I did not feel slighted like many blacks seem to be in regards to a lack African history being taught in schools.........

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