A National Majority Now Disagrees With The Theocons About Gay Marriage

[Carlos_E]

Most say gay marriage private choice
By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY

Six in 10 Americans say the government should not regulate whether gays and lesbians can marry the people they choose, a survey finds.

As same-sex couples line up to get marriage licenses in California on June 17, the USA TODAY/Gallup Poll found that 63% of adults say same-sex marriage is "strictly a private decision" between two people.

That the government has the right "to prohibit or allow" such marriages was stated by 33%, and 4% had no opinion.

On Monday, the California secretary of state said an initiative to amend the state Constitution to define marriage as a union "between a man and a woman" will be on the ballot Nov. 4. If it passes, it would overturn a state Supreme Court ruling in May that legalized same-sex marriage. After Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage in 2004, 11 states voted on similar questions.

"Those initiatives … did have an impact in election results," says Mark Rozell, professor of public policy at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Turnout was 2.4% higher on average in those 11 states than the other 39 states."

But these poll findings "suggest caution" to conservative activists who think this will mobilize voters, he says. "People were warned, with lots of overheated rhetoric, about the consequences of gay marriage in Massachusetts. They didn't see it affect their own lives. Now, most people have let loose a collective yawn about the issue."

Poll findings:

A majority of respondents at every level of education and income say same-sex marriage is "strictly private." This was true:

• In every region: East (71%), West (64%), Midwest (63%) and South (56%).

• Among all ages except "65 and older": 18 to 29 (79%), 30 to 49 (65%), 50 to 64% (62%) and 65 and older (44%).

• Among people who also say they have a favorable view of any of the three leading presidential candidates. For those holding favorable views for John McCain, 55% say marriage is a private decision; for Barack Obama, 75% say so; and for Hillary Clinton, 69% do. All three oppose same-sex marriage. Both Democrats both favor civil unions.

• Among people who say a relative, friend or co-worker personally has told them he or she was gay or lesbian (73%).

The strongest support for government regulation of same-sex marriage came from people who say they:

• Attend religious services weekly (56%).

• Are Republicans (56%).

• Are politically conservative (54%).

"After Massachusetts, the public has seen that the decision there has not affected people's lives as much as was feared," Rozell says.

Still, there are forms of marriage Americans overwhelmingly do want to see regulated: 66% say polygamy should not be a strictly private decision; 78% say the government should regulate marriages involving someone under 16.

Every state but one, New Hampshire, requires parental permission to marry someone under 18, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. New Hampshire sets the age at 17. Mississippi sets it at 21.

[Carlos_E]

The strongest support for government regulation of same-sex marriage came from people who say they:

• Attend religious services weekly (56%).

• Are Republicans (56%).

• Are politically conservative (54%).

What's with you people?

[SMCengineer]

The strongest support for government regulation of same-sex marriage came from people who say they:

• Attend religious services weekly (56%).

• Are Republicans (56%).

• Are politically conservative (54%).

What's with you people?

Sorry to tell you this, but most people, including you, don't know what it means to be a conservative Republican anymore. The "conservative Republicans" referred to in that article are actually a bunch of religious fanatics that have since taken over the Republican party and have nothing in common with the actual conservatism movement, yet they are always referred to as "conservatives."

[FallenWyvern]

Sorry to tell you this, but most people, including you, don't know what it means to be a conservative Republican anymore. The "conservative Republicans" referred to in that article are actually a bunch of religious fanatics that have since taken over the Republican party and have nothing in common with the actual conservatism movement, yet they are always referred to as "conservatives."

You are my new online friend. "Conservatism" has been destroyed.

[Carlos_E]

The "conservative Republicans" referred to in that article are actually a bunch of religious fanatics that have since taken over the Republican party and have nothing in common with the actual conservatism movement, yet they are always referred to as "conservatives."

I agree.

[Gators]

Good gracious, go get married and spare us all your gay agenda. Look for me in the "I'm straight and proud" march...

If it's such a majority, then why are you for activist judges going against the vote of the people? You mentioned about the past racial issues, but minorities don't have a choice, you do.

Will this post get me banned, like the ******* banning last time?

[SMCengineer]

Good gracious, go get married and spare us all your gay agenda. Look for me in the "I'm straight and proud" march...

If it's such a majority, then why are you for activist judges going against the vote of the people? You mentioned about the past racial issues, but minorities don't have a choice, you do.

Will this post get me banned, like the ******* banning last time?

...because our system is not set-up as a democracy. There are checks and balances for every branch of government and that includes the branch "of the people."

[Act of God]

...because our system is not set-up as a democracy. There are checks and balances for every branch of government and that includes the branch "of the people."

Lol, not exactly Blome. There is no branch "of the people". Oddly, the Court in this decision has basically said:

The people cannot vote upon the rights of others. Therefore we will not allow the referendum vote to prohibit gay marriage.

The key there is that the courts intervened and said that the people cannot vote to prohibit RIGHTS.

At the same time, the same courts allow people to vote to prohibit gun rights ad nauseum. Owning a gun is the freaking SECOND amendment. There is no marriage amendment (gay, straight, or otherwise). Yet, the bs California Court sees fit to uphold gun bans and allow gay marriage. They are effectively taking away one core constitutional right and creating one that did not ever exist.

If they want to allow gay marriage, fine. Using the same logic, however, they have to overturn every single gun ban in this country.

[SMCengineer]

Lol, not exactly Blome. There is no branch "of the people". Oddly, the Court in this decision has basically said:

The people cannot vote upon the rights of others. Therefore we will not allow the referendum vote to prohibit gay marriage.

The key there is that the courts intervened and said that the people cannot vote to prohibit RIGHTS.

At the same time, the same courts allow people to vote to prohibit gun rights ad nauseum. Owning a gun is the freaking SECOND amendment. There is no marriage amendment (gay, straight, or otherwise). Yet, the bs California Court sees fit to uphold gun bans and allow gay marriage. They are effectively taking away one core constitutional right and creating one that did not ever exist.

If they want to allow gay marriage, fine. Using the same logic, however, they have to overturn every single gun ban in this country.

I didn't mean that literally, hence the quotes, but the voice of the people is certainly an aspect of government that can't be aloud to have free rein. Just as there are checks and balances protecting the people from the goverment becoming tyrannical there are also checks and balances to protect the government from the people voting themselves into a tyrannical state.

[Carlos_E]

Good gracious, go get married and spare us all your gay agenda. Look for me in the "I'm straight and proud" march...

If it's such a majority, then why are you for activist judges going against the vote of the people? You mentioned about the past racial issues, but minorities don't have a choice, you do.

Will this post get me banned, like the ******* banning last time?

This post will not get you banned but it sure makes you look like a fool. We'll keep you around for comic relief.

[Gators]

This post will not get you banned but it sure makes you look like a fool. We'll keep you around for comic relief.

nice 'duck'....

Like Act of God said, liberals are hypocrites.

I'm not a Republican anymore, i'm a conservative independant.

[Carlos_E]

nice 'duck'....

Like Act of God said, liberals are hypocrites.

I'm not a Republican anymore, i'm a conservative independant.

Oh, so when you disagree, it makes me a fool eh? Nice one Carlos, right up there w/ calling me a poopoo head.

I like how it took you 4 minutes to come up with your second reply. Like I said, comic relief.

[Gators]

This post will not get you banned but it sure makes you look like a fool. We'll keep you around for comic relief.

Oh, so when you disagree, it makes me a fool eh? Nice one Carlos, right up there w/ calling me a poopoo head.

[DSM4Life]

This post will not get you banned but it sure makes you look like a fool. We'll keep you around for comic relief.

[soulstealer]

Good gracious, go get married and spare us all your gay agenda. Look for me in the "I'm straight and proud" march...

If it's such a majority, then why are you for activist judges going against the vote of the people? You mentioned about the past racial issues, but minorities don't have a choice, you do.

Will this post get me banned, like the ******* banning last time?

Man what a post... seriously bro this post has nothing to do with being gay..(well it does) but more so to do with a step in the right direction of breaking down group barriers and attaining true equality (removing group mentality).... its finally a step in the right direction...we will only have truly evolved as a species when we can say the right of the individual is paramount and what that person decides to do with their life is their own business...so regardless of your orientation you should very excited to see this and be living in these times...

[Gators]

Man what a post... seriously bro this post has nothing to do with being gay..(well it does) but more so to do with a step in the right direction of breaking down group barriers and attaining true equality (removing group mentality).... its finally a step in the right direction...we will only have truly evolved as a species when we can say the right of the individual is paramount and what that person decides to do with their life is their own business...so regardless of your orientation you should very excited to see this and be living in these times...

See, i flat out disagree. I think homosexuality is a choice, and the definition of marriage should not be changed because of what one group CHOSES to do. Don't give me that bs that 'they can't help it, i am a recovering cocaine addict, been clean for 20 years, and i made a conscious decision not to be an addict of anything anymore. It wasn't easy, especially at 1st, but i did it. Now that may be a far out analogy, but because Carlos makes the choice to put his penis where another man evacuates his bowels, that doesn't mean we have to change everything for that group. That's the difference between the gay marriage issue and the civil rights issues.

Personally, i don't dislike gay people, but as a Christian, i cannot accept it is 'normal' because the Bible, and i believe Christ himself said sex is for husband and wife, anything outside of that is a sin. Sin is sin, and I am told not to judge, so i'll let Him do that.

I still think it should be determined by a vote of the people, not by legislation from the bench.

Peace.

[DeputyLoneWolf]

See, i flat out disagree. I think homosexuality is a choice, and the definition of marriage should not be changed because of what one group CHOSES to do. Don't give me that bs that 'they can't help it, i am a recovering cocaine addict, been clean for 20 years, and i made a conscious decision not to be an addict of anything anymore. It wasn't easy, especially at 1st, but i did it. Now that may be a far out analogy, but because Carlos makes the choice to put his penis where another man evacuates his bowels, that doesn't mean we have to change everything for that group. That's the difference between the gay marriage issue and the civil rights issues.

Personally, i don't dislike gay people, but as a Christian, i cannot accept it is 'normal' because the Bible, and i believe Christ himself said sex is for husband and wife, anything outside of that is a sin. Sin is sin, and I am told not to judge, so i'll let Him do that.

I still think it should be determined by a vote of the people, not by legislation from the bench.

Peace.

Gator, I totally agree, good post.

[soulstealer]

See, i flat out disagree. I think homosexuality is a choice, and the definition of marriage should not be changed because of what one group CHOSES to do. Don't give me that bs that 'they can't help it, i am a recovering cocaine addict, been clean for 20 years, and i made a conscious decision not to be an addict of anything anymore. It wasn't easy, especially at 1st, but i did it. Now that may be a far out analogy, but because Carlos makes the choice to put his penis where another man evacuates his bowels, that doesn't mean we have to change everything for that group. That's the difference between the gay marriage issue and the civil rights issues.

Personally, i don't dislike gay people, but as a Christian, i cannot accept it is 'normal' because the Bible, and i believe Christ himself said sex is for husband and wife, anything outside of that is a sin. Sin is sin, and I am told not to judge, so i'll let Him do that.

I still think it should be determined by a vote of the people, not by legislation from the bench.

Peace.

I have to make a point here that being a Christian is also a "choice"....just like believing in the bible is a "choice" and without getting any further into this.... its only bad or wrong in your eyes because of your "choice" so how can we accept you as being 'normal' as you put it if your views are extreme (or not normal) being that you are currently out of step with the majority?

[DSM4Life]

I have to make a point here that being a Christian is also a "choice"....just like believing in the bible is a "choice" and without getting any further into this.... its only bad or wrong in your eyes because of your "choice" so how can we accept you as being 'normal' as you put it if your views are extreme (or not normal) being that you are currently out of step with the majority?

+2...

[DeputyLoneWolf]

I have to make a point here that being a Christian is also a "choice"....just like believing in the bible is a "choice" and without getting any further into this.... its only bad or wrong in your eyes because of your "choice" so how can we accept you as being 'normal' as you put it if your views are extreme (or not normal) being that you are currently out of step with the majority?

We are not out of step with the majority. The liberal media would have you believe this but it is not the case. Since the pilgrims landed this country has been founded on biblical principles. Even the native americans that were here before knew about "The great Spirit." Why do you think that America is the greatest country on earth?

[inheritmylife]

Good to hear that the majority disagree with restricting the Rights of gay Americans. Not like it matters really. I don't have the power to restrict, permit, or deny the rights of anyone else anymore than they have that same power to disparage my own. Any law restricting gay marriage was never a law in the first place.

I hate the whole idea that marriage licenses are needed anyway. A license is really just a permit, and a permit implies that permission is needed. If we have unlimited Right to contract, why then would I need to get permission from another in order to make my union to another legal?

State sanctioned marriage is BS.

[thegodfather]

DeputyLoneWolf+Gator= Never a more clear stereotypical example of the "Uneducated Ignorant Southern Religious Fanatics."

You two might be surprised to know that more and more scientific evidence points to homosexuality being a biological disorder like any other. Sexual orientation is genetically predispositioned, and you bigots might have known that and saved yourselves the embarassment of this thread if you had bothered to get your news and information from more than just your Sunday morning Pastor and Rush Limbaugh's blog...

[DeputyLoneWolf]

DeputyLoneWolf+Gator= Never a more clear stereotypical example of the "Uneducated Ignorant Southern Religious Fanatics."

You two might be surprised to know that more and more scientific evidence points to homosexuality being a biological disorder like any other. Sexual orientation is genetically predispositioned, and you bigots might have known that and saved yourselves the embarassment of this thread if you had bothered to get your news and information from more than just your Sunday morning Pastor and Rush Limbaugh's blog...

"Uneducated Southern Religious Fanatics"? "Bigots" Hmm, Im sure if I were to call someone a flaming butt pirate I would get suspended huh.

Grow up and if you can't enter any valid points in this discussion then don't bother posting. It has never been proven in any scientific test to be predispositioned and I would like for you to find me one such study.

You sir, by your language are the one embarassing yourself.

[gixxerboy1]

"Uneducated Southern Religious Fanatics"? "Bigots" Hmm, Im sure if I were to call someone a flaming butt pirate I would get suspended huh.

Grow up and if you can't enter any valid points in this discussion then don't bother posting. It has never been proven in any scientific test to be predispositioned and I would like for you to find me one such study.

You sir, by your language are the one embarassing yourself.

yes you would.

Prove that its not? Whats your proof a fiction book?

There are many gay people that will say they are born that way thats enough proof for me.

[Peducho0113]

yes you would.

Prove that its not? Whats your proof a fiction book?

There are many gay people that will say they are born that way thats enough proof for me.

+2..

[thegodfather]

"Uneducated Southern Religious Fanatics"? "Bigots" Hmm, Im sure if I were to call someone a flaming butt pirate I would get suspended huh.

Grow up and if you can't enter any valid points in this discussion then don't bother posting. It has never been proven in any scientific test to be predispositioned and I would like for you to find me one such study.
You sir, by your language are the one embarassing yourself.

Canadian scientists have uncovered new evidence which shows genetics has a role to play in determining whether an individual is homosexual or heterosexual.

The research was conducted by Dr. Sandra Witelson, a neuroscientist in the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University, and colleagues at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto who studied the brains of healthy, right-handed, 18- to 35-year-old homosexual and heterosexual men using structural Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI).

About 10 years ago, Witelson and Dr. Cheryl McCormick, then a student of Witelson's, demonstrated there is a higher proportion of left-handers in the homosexual population than in the general population -- a result replicated in subsequent studies which is now accepted as fact.

Handedness is a sign of how the brain is organized to represent different aspects of intelligence. Language, for example, is usually on the left - music on the right.

In other research, Witelson and research associate Debra Kigar, had found that left-handers have a larger region of the posterior corpus callosum -- the thick band of nerve fibres connecting the two hemispheres of the brain -- than right handers.

This raised the hypothesis for the current study -- whether the anatomy of the brain of the sub-group of right-handed homosexual men is similar to that of left-handers.

They found that the posterior part of the corpus callosum is larger in homosexual than heterosexual men.

The size of the corpus callosum is largely inherited suggesting a genetic factor in sexual orientation, said Witelson "Our results do not mean that heredity is destiny but they do indicate that environment is not the only player in the field," she said.

While this is not a litmus test for sexual orientation, Witelson said this finding could prove to be one additional valuable piece of information for physicians and individuals who are trying to determine their sexual orientation. "Sometimes people aren't sure of their sexual orientation."

The researchers also undertook a correlational analysis which included size of the corpus callosum, and test scores scores on language, visual spatial and finger dexterity tests. "By using all these variables, we were able to predict sexual orientation in 95 per cent of the cases," she said.

The research was just reported in the on-line edition of the Archives of Sexual Behaviour prior to the release of its printed version.

Perhaps if you extended your reading beyond that of a 5,000 year old work of fiction, you might be more aware of some of the latest research in science. I'd say since their study was able to predict homosexuality in 95% of cases that it presents very strong evidence that homosexuality is biologically based, and it is not rather a choice that a person makes. Does that burn you up inside? That these people you and your religious cronies ostracize and treat with contempt have no choice in the matter? That the designer of all living things, your great God, is responsible for these people being the way they are? Because if it is biologically based, that is exactly what it means.

I have a huge problem with people like you. You live inside of a vacume, a bubble. You shut out evidence that doesn't agree with your viewpoint. On top of that, you believe that you have the RIGHT to tell other people how to live their lives, and then judge them for the way they live it. Doesn't God say that man should not judge?

All of that aside. Treating gays differently because you dont agree with their lifestyle is akin to treating African Americans differently because they are black. Racism of the past used RELIGION to justify chattel slavery, just as people today are using RELIGION to justify the discrimination of gays!

I just presented you with FACTUAL evidence of my view point. You say things which are nothing more than opinion, like "America is the greatest nation on earth." America disregards the rights of other sovereign nations, it ruthlessly slaughters MILLIONS of people in wars meant strictly for profiteering and modern day Crusading to wipe out the "False" religion. America openly TORTURES Gods children, and deprives them of inalienable rights they are born with. Yea, we're the greatest nation on earth, and we set a stellar example for other nations of people to follow. What a joke.

[DSM4Life]

I think this deserves a bump , DeputyLoneWolf can we get a response ?

[DeputyLoneWolf]

I think this deserves a bump , DeputyLoneWolf can we get a response ?

Absolutely when I get a chance (been working a lot of OT). And I appreciate that most responses to my posts are mature and not bashing.

[DSM4Life]

Absolutely when I get a chance (been working a lot of OT). And I appreciate that most responses to my posts are mature and not bashing.

I guess you haven't gotten a free 10 mins out of your day yet.

[Nicotine]

you know what....

i had been abused as a child. i had horrible very physically abusive parents. I have had HORRIBLE abusive relationships... hell, my mother sent me an email 2 weeks ago (after not talking to her for 10yrs) saying she is ashamed she made a faggot and hopes i die of aids.....

i'm gay - and i finally found someone i love, who treats me right, who i respect - and who respects me.

with all the shit going on in this world - 9/11, war, crime, hate crimes, murders, all the hate in the middle east....

what the **** is wrong with 2 people who love each other?

i can think of HUNDREDS of things in this world that are worse than 2 people who love each other, and want to show commitment to each other.

oklahoma has a 75% divorce rate. how sacred is that? how sacred is who wants to marry a millionare?

in canada, gay marriage is legal everywhere. and guess what? the family home still exists. the country didnt fall apart. there is no riots in the streets. the mom/dad/kids unit still exists. but at the same time, those who love each other who just happen to be of the same sex - they exist too.

the day MY marriage to my same sex partner affects the LIVES OF OTHERS DIRECTLY, then yes - i would see a problem. untill then, worry about your own lives and work on making your home a happy place for YOUR family.

[inheritmylife]

you know what....

i had been abused as a child. i had horrible very physically abusive parents. I have had HORRIBLE abusive relationships... hell, my mother sent me an email 2 weeks ago (after not talking to her for 10yrs) saying she is ashamed she made a faggot and hopes i die of aids.....

i'm gay - and i finally found someone i love, who treats me right, who i respect - and who respects me.

with all the shit going on in this world - 9/11, war, crime, hate crimes, murders, all the hate in the middle east....

what the **** is wrong with 2 people who love each other?

i can think of HUNDREDS of things in this world that are worse than 2 people who love each other, and want to show commitment to each other.

oklahoma has a 75% divorce rate. how sacred is that? how sacred is who wants to marry a millionare?

in canada, gay marriage is legal everywhere. and guess what? the family home still exists. the country didnt fall apart. there is no riots in the streets. the mom/dad/kids unit still exists. but at the same time, those who love each other who just happen to be of the same sex - they exist too.

the day MY marriage to my same sex partner affects the LIVES OF OTHERS DIRECTLY, then yes - i would see a problem. untill then, worry about your own lives and work on making your home a happy place for YOUR family.

Unfortunately, some people will never understand that. Here in America, we use the democratic process to decide issues like whether or not two men can wed, whether I want to allow people to smoke in my bar, and a million other things that should never be up for a vote. Who cares right?

It's majority rule here. If you aren't in the majority, you're SOL. It doesn't help that the average voting person in this country is an idiot.

[Flagg]

you know what....

i had been abused as a child. i had horrible very physically abusive parents. I have had HORRIBLE abusive relationships... hell, my mother sent me an email 2 weeks ago (after not talking to her for 10yrs) saying she is ashamed she made a faggot and hopes i die of aids.....

i'm gay - and i finally found someone i love, who treats me right, who i respect - and who respects me.

with all the shit going on in this world - 9/11, war, crime, hate crimes, murders, all the hate in the middle east....

what the **** is wrong with 2 people who love each other?

i can think of HUNDREDS of things in this world that are worse than 2 people who love each other, and want to show commitment to each other.

oklahoma has a 75% divorce rate. how sacred is that? how sacred is who wants to marry a millionare?

in canada, gay marriage is legal everywhere. and guess what? the family home still exists. the country didnt fall apart. there is no riots in the streets. the mom/dad/kids unit still exists. but at the same time, those who love each other who just happen to be of the same sex - they exist too.

the day MY marriage to my same sex partner affects the LIVES OF OTHERS DIRECTLY, then yes - i would see a problem. untill then, worry about your own lives and work on making your home a happy place for YOUR family.

Mate, a very touching post I thought, I feel sorry your mother is so blinded by ignorance. Your point about two people loving each other is a good point. Not to go off tangent but i watched a documentory on incestual relationships. Basically there was this couple that met, fell in love, etc, THEN they find out they are actually brother and sister. However they carry on their relationship. They even have children, but the children are taken away from them each time and the man gets thrown into prison. Now, is this a bad thing or not?

[Tock]

Mate, a very touching post I thought, I feel sorry your mother is so blinded by ignorance. Your point about two people loving each other is a good point. Not to go off tangent but i watched a documentory on incestual relationships. Basically there was this couple that met, fell in love, etc, THEN they find out they are actually brother and sister. However they carry on their relationship. They even have children, but the children are taken away from them each time and the man gets thrown into prison. Now, is this a bad thing or not?

Children of incestuous relations have physical difficulties, so to spare them needless pain and medical problems, intimate relations between close relatives are discouraged. It's a practical thing, not so much a moral thing. Seems to me that a practical solution would be to spay & neuter anyone inclined to this sort of sex. But, the community may beleive that punishing these people would discourage anyone else thinking about doing the same thing, which it may or may not.

What do you think?

[Act of God]

Children of incestuous relations have a greater chance of manifesting physical difficulties, so to spare them needless pain and medical problems, intimate relations between close relatives are discouraged. It's a practical thing, not so much a moral thing. Seems to me that a practical solution would be to spay & neuter anyone inclined to this sort of sex. But, the community may beleive that punishing these people would discourage anyone else thinking about doing the same thing, which it may or may not.

What do you think?

Fixed it for you. In all fairness, to play the advocate of el Diablo, at least an incestuous relationship is capable of producing life. Can't say the same thing about homosexual relationships. Plus, given the rampant egotism of the human race who wouldn't wanna fvck someone as close to themselves as possible?

[SMCengineer]

Fixed it for you. In all fairness, to play the advocate of el Diablo, at least an incestuous relationship is capable of producing life. Can't say the same thing about homosexual relationships. Plus, given the rampant egotism of the human race who wouldn't wanna fvck someone as close to themselves as possible?

Uhh...me.

[Tock]

Fixed it for you.

Thanks; details count.

In all fairness, to play the advocate of el Diablo, at least an incestuous relationship is capable of producing life. Can't say the same thing about homosexual relationships.

So?
Does Mr. El Diablo insist that only couples capable of reproduction should have the right to marry? Surely not . . .

Plus, given the rampant egotism of the human race who wouldn't wanna fvck someone as close to themselves as possible?

Anyone with a bunch of dysfunctional family members like mine, for one . . .

[Flagg]

Children of incestuous relations have physical difficulties, so to spare them needless pain and medical problems, intimate relations between close relatives are discouraged. It's a practical thing, not so much a moral thing. Seems to me that a practical solution would be to spay & neuter anyone inclined to this sort of sex. But, the community may beleive that punishing these people would discourage anyone else thinking about doing the same thing, which it may or may not.

What do you think?

I agree, that from the point of view of both parents sharing similiar DNA, the chances of their children being disabled or having mutations is very high. It's unfortunate that they both had to meet under such circumstances and then find out they are related, and THEN have their children taken away from them. I understand the law and I dont know the case 100%, I mean if they find out they are related AFTER they had children, does the law have the right to take their children away then?

[pump.joe]

i had been abused as a child. i had horrible very physically abusive parents. I have had HORRIBLE abusive relationships... hell, my mother sent me an email 2 weeks ago (after not talking to her for 10yrs) saying she is ashamed she made a faggot and hopes i die of aids.....

Wow Nic, that's heavy, dude. I'm glad you made it through that and are happy now.

I really don't understand who cares if two guys or two girls want to get married. Because it says something in the bible? Check out some of the points made here.

• Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
• I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
• A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
• Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? [Dwarfs and people with bad backs are also forbidden to approach.]
• Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

[Peducho0113]

you know what....

i had been abused as a child. i had horrible very physically abusive parents. I have had HORRIBLE abusive relationships... hell, my mother sent me an email 2 weeks ago (after not talking to her for 10yrs) saying she is ashamed she made a faggot and hopes i die of aids.....

i'm gay - and i finally found someone i love, who treats me right, who i respect - and who respects me.

with all the shit going on in this world - 9/11, war, crime, hate crimes, murders, all the hate in the middle east....

what the **** is wrong with 2 people who love each other?

i can think of HUNDREDS of things in this world that are worse than 2 people who love each other, and want to show commitment to each other.

oklahoma has a 75% divorce rate. how sacred is that? how sacred is who wants to marry a millionare?

in canada, gay marriage is legal everywhere. and guess what? the family home still exists. the country didnt fall apart. there is no riots in the streets. the mom/dad/kids unit still exists. but at the same time, those who love each other who just happen to be of the same sex - they exist too.

the day MY marriage to my same sex partner affects the LIVES OF OTHERS DIRECTLY, then yes - i would see a problem. untill then, worry about your own lives and work on making your home a happy place for YOUR family.

Wow! Speechless Nicotine, I totally agree with you. I love you man!

[gst528i]

why hate gay people or not give them the same rights when there other more pressing issues that directly affect our lives. Bitch about god said this and that while ignoring other things considered sin. So when did prostitution become okay in god's bible? Well las vegas is doing just fine ...Get over it and find other pressing issues that need to be solved.