First Cycle Questions

[MadHatter973]

Hello everyone. I am about to start my first cycle, and I have some questions. I have read many threads in the forum as well as others but I'm still looking for a little more clarification so I can be sure I get the most from my first cycle.

I was originally thinking about doing a Test E/Deca stack... but after some research I think its better to start out with just Test E to see how my body reacts. Is 600mg per week for 10 weeks too much for my first cycle?

I'm also concerned about losing most of my gains after my cycle is over. I have been told by some friends who use gear that taking Clomiphene after my cycle will prevent me from losing ALL my gains (I know its impossible to keep every pound you gain). Is there any truth to this Clomiphene theory?

And lastly, I also plan on having some Nolvadex on hand in case of Gyno... I have also read that 30mg per day would suffice for Nolva. Anybody have any conflicting information?

I really appreciate any information that anyone could give me. I know these are newbe questions, and I apologize in advance.

-MH-

[WARMachine]

First off bro, welcome to AR.

Secondly, lets get some stats from you.

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

What your buddys are talking about is taking Clomid for PCT.

PCT = Post Cycle Therpy

Its used to help restore your HPTA quickly, and get your body to begin producing Test again.

Its other purpose is to help you keep you gains.

Now Clomid is not enough for a PCT, but if you were to add the Nolva to it, then it would suffice.

Nolvadex is the cornerstone of ANY good PCT.


It seems youve done some research, but you need to learn about PCT before you begin a cycle. You also should read up on estrogen control while on cycle.

Some old school guys still prefer Nolva on cycle to combat gyno, but IMO the use of an AI is much better. They too can be included in PCT.

Check out these links and get back to me.

Drummerboys PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198848

Test Beginner Cycle Guide
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742

Steroid Profiles
http://www.steroid.com/drugprof.php

Again, welcome to AR!!

-WAR

[MadHatter973]

thanks for your reply war. here are my stats:


Age: 22
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 186 (as of this morning)
BF%: To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure.
Diet/# Of Meals: I try to eat about 6 small meals every day. I try to stay around 250g of protein daily and close to 2000 calories. WHAT I eat varies on my mood. But I always get at least 2 or 3 protein shakes daily. I dont drink alcohol in excess, just a beer here and there at dinner and such.
Years Lifting: In total, I have been working out for about 6 1/2 years, but I've been taking it seriously for about 3.
Workout Split: Monday - Chest(Heavy)/Triceps/Abs Tuesday - Back(Heavy)/Biceps/Traps Wednesday - Legs/Delts/Abs Thursday - Chest(Light) Friday - Back(Light)/Abs Saturday - Biceps(Heavy)/Triceps(Heavy)
PCS/Est. Control Knowledge: Apparently I don't know enough But I've done quite a bit of reading
Goals: I'm already pretty cut, but more wouldn't hurt. And of course I'm looking for Size & Strength

I hope I didn't forget anything.

[dieseldru]

First off bro, welcome to AR.

Secondly, lets get some stats from you.

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

What your buddys are talking about is taking Clomid for PCT.

PCT = Post Cycle Therpy

Its used to help restore your HPTA quickly, and get your body to begin producing Test again.

Its other purpose is to help you keep you gains.

Now Clomid is not enough for a PCT, but if you were to add the Nolva to it, then it would suffice.

Nolvadex is the cornerstone of ANY good PCT.


It seems youve done some research, but you need to learn about PCT before you begin a cycle. You also should read up on estrogen control while on cycle.

Some old school guys still prefer Nolva on cycle to combat gyno, but IMO the use of an AI is much better. They too can be included in PCT.

Check out these links and get back to me.

Drummerboys PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198848

Test Beginner Cycle Guide
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742

Steroid Profiles
http://www.steroid.com/drugprof.php

Again, welcome to AR!!

-WAR

War, please explain the bold. I know numerous, NUMEROUS people who have successfully used clomid for PCT, and furthermore the modes of actions between the two are different. If anything, clomid SHOULD be the cornerstone of any good PCT.

[MadHatter973]

at any rate i think im gonna go for the Clomid/Nolva combo just to be safe. i dont think you can have too much PCT, right?

-MH-

[MKD]

at any rate i think im gonna go for the Clomid/Nolva combo just to be safe. i dont think you can have too much PCT, right?

-MH-

im same as you begining but all i know is for pct you can run clomid or nolva. start 14 days after your last shot of test and run it for 30 days .

[breakbones]

Wait till you're 25 for AAS, you have a good amount of test. Try the diet section

[MadHatter973]

Thanks Breakbones, but I'm pretty comfortable with my decision to start a cycle. I was just here looking for some answers beforehand.

[chuckt12345]

wk 1-12 500 or 600mg/wk test E (shoot every 3.5 days)

wk 14 start pct

read the pct protocol for that

[WARMachine]

Have you read the links i provided?

And a guesstimate on the BF% would be helpful.

15%? 10%? 5%?

[MadHatter973]

War: Yes I read the articles last night and they provided some clear info. Gonna give them another read tonight. I checked my body fat at the gym today and I'm at 9%.

Chuck: Thanks. Thats along the lines of some of the info I was looking for. I had already mapped out a cycle of that sort through the reading I did last night, but you just put the nail in the coffin. Very much appreciated.

[Mulciber]

i use both clomid and nolvadex for pct.. if i had to choose one it would be clomid.
but both together is the way to go imo.

might check out pheednos pct as well..believe its a sticky in the pct forum.. will help explain things as well.. but as said many times there are many pct protocols.. read and learn all you can and decide what you think is best.. ive tried many to figure out what works best for me..

[WARMachine]

i use both clomid and nolvadex for pct.. if i had to choose one it would be clomid.
but both together is the way to go imo.

might check out pheednos pct as well..believe its a sticky in the pct forum.. will help explain things as well.. but as said many times there are many pct protocols.. read and learn all you can and decide what you think is best.. ive tried many to figure out what works best for me..

Good advice... Though i think Nolva is better than Clomid...

[MadHatter973]

I can use both of them together right? I'm sure there isnt such a thing as TOO MUCH PCT is there? I would of course like to keep as many of my gains as possible while minimizing side effects at the same time. I have both Clomid & Nolva readily available so wouldn't be any trouble to get both.

As I'm reading into PCT (Clomid especially), I've gotten two different dosage suggestions. According to Drummerboy's PCT guide he says 100mg daily should suffice. But I've also read its good to pyramid the Clomid. Day 1: 300mg, Day 2-11: 100mg daily, and Day 12-21: 50mg daily. Any conflicting info? Everything I've seen on Nolva seems pretty consistant at 20mg daily.

[WARMachine]

The best way to keep your gains is a good PCT and continued diet bro...

Keep on reading, you need to learn as much as possible...

You'll be ready soon enough.

Come back with a proposed Cycle and PCT and ill give you some more help.

[redz]

Not to be a dick but I would love to see your diet that has 250g of protein and only 2000 cals.

[WARMachine]

^^ Actually thats a good point...


Lets see it MH, lay it out.

Include everything, how much the food weighs, macros etc...

[MadHatter973]

The cycle I've worked out is as follows:


Week 1-12: 600mg of Test E (Injection days Monday AM & Thursday PM)

• PCT to begin week 14.

PCT
Day1: 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2-11: 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 12-21: 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 22-30: 20mg Nolva

I may have underestimated my diet at 250g Protein/2000 Cals. I was just taking a semi-educated guess last night. I can map out everything I eat all day tomorrow and post a more accurate diet structure. Sorry for jumping the gun.

-MH-

[WARMachine]

The cycle I've worked out is as follows:


Week 1-12: 600mg of Test E (Injection days Monday AM & Thursday PM)

• PCT to begin week 14.

PCT
Day1: 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2-11: 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 12-21: 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 22-30: 20mg Nolva

I may have underestimated my diet at 250g Protein/2000 Cals. I was just taking a semi-educated guess last night. I can map out everything I eat all day tomorrow and post a more accurate diet structure. Sorry for jumping the gun.

-MH-

Sadly a lot of the PCT stickies are outdated.

Many people who take Clomid at doses between 100-300 get terrible side effects.

IMO anything more than 100mgs is overkill.

Personally i use no more than 50mgs

Nolva - 20/20/20/20
Clomid - 50/50/25/25

Thats what i use...


Now onto the main problem, which is obviously your diet...

Lets see it MH, lay it out.

Include everything, how much the food weighs, macros etc...

[MadHatter973]

War, thanks alot man your really helping me tremendously. As is everybody else. I'll get back you to ASAP with a sample diet from tomorrow. Thanks again.

-MH-

[MadHatter973]

Hey War. Sorry I wasn't able to post yesterday I was tied up at work all day long. Here is what I ate all day yesterday.

Breakfast (8:00am)

• Scrambled Eggs (5 Whites & 1/2 Yolk)
• 2 Slices Wheat Toast w/ about a 1 TBSP Peanut Butter
• 1/2 Cup Oatmeal (Measured Dry)

Pre-Workout (10:00am)

• 1 Medium Banana
• 2 Dozen Large Grapes
• 1/2 Dozen Ritz Crackers
• Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)

Post-Workout (11:30pm)

• Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein, 1 Serving "Nature's Best Creatine Monohydrate" 5g)

Lunch (1:15pm)

• 6 oz. Grilled Chicken Breast
• 1 Cup Brown Rice (Measured Dry)
• 1/2 PB&J Sandwich on Wheat Bread

Snack (3:30pm)

• Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)
• 1 Medium Banana

Dinner (7:00pm)

• 6 oz. Top Round Steak
• About 3/4 Cup Green Beans sauteed w/ Garlic (Measured Cooked)
• Large Garden Salad (Lettuce, Tomatoes, Onions, Green Olives, Peppers, Crutons, Oil & Vinegar)
• 2 12 oz. Coronas

This is what I ate for the entire day. I drank about 1 1/2 gallons of water throughout the day. I always carry around a gallon of Poland Spring and drink often. My meals are structured about the same, and I usually eat about the same things and the same portions. Feedback? As always, thanks alot. Much appreciated.

-MH-

[Mulciber]

i use to use that pct protocol years ago.. the 300mg the first day is a bitch.. now i prefer 100mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex.30 days. some like to run the clomid lower or drop it to 50 the second 2 weeks.. i also take it at night to sleep through some of the possible sides.. makes me tired anyways..helps me sleep.. another added bonus..

[chuckt12345]

well thats over 2000 calories but id throw in a b4 sleep snack

[MadHatter973]

any suggestions as to what i could eat before bed? i know a bunch of people that eat cottage cheese before bed... but the thought of cottage cheese turns my stomach haha

-MH-

[chuckt12345]

dont see any fish in your diet

[Ernst]

Uhhh... guys... he used a double negative "don't NOT use pct".... He was saying DO PCT.

[MadHatter973]

haha i had to read that three or four times as well to fully understand what he was talking about. but yea i gotta say in his defense, he said DONT not do pct.

all who have replied have been very helpful and i really appreciate it. its good to see that there are so many people on this forum who are willing to give a newbie advice in a sincere manner. again, thanks alot to everyone who replied.

-MH-

[Big]

Uhhh... guys... he used a double negative "don't NOT use pct".... He was saying DO PCT.

I knew it was either bad advice or bad grammar, it just seemed to me if he was saying to use pct, there are better ways to phrase it lol. In any event, if he meant to say "don't not use pct", then I stand corrected. My warning should have been "don't not give good advice on this board".

[WARMachine]

Uhhh... guys... he used a double negative "don't NOT use pct".... He was saying DO PCT.

Wow i feel dumb.. Sorry bro!

[MKD]

I have been told by some friends who use gear that taking Clomiphene after my cycle will prevent me from losing ALL my gains-MH-

IS THAT TRUE ? about Clomiphene ?

[Big]

IS THAT TRUE ? about Clomiphene ?

Clomid is quite common as part of a pct.