First Cycle, advice needed before the plunge!

[kinderbueno]

Hi, I'm 21 5'7" 68Kgs 10% bf have been working out for 2 years, good diet etc..

I'm going to start my first cycle within the next 2 months and want your advice on my cycle and PCT before I go ahead as I have a couple of queries. This is the cycle I am planning on doing:

Week Dosages
1 400mg Test-C 20mg D-Bol ED
2 400mg Test-C 20mg D-Bol ED
3 400mg Test-C 20mg D-Bol ED
4 400mg Test-C 20mg D-Bol ED
5 400mg Test-C
6 400mg Test-C
7 400mg Test-C
8 400mg Test-C
9 400mg Test-C
10 400mg Test-C
11 400mg Test-C
12 400mg Test-C
**18 days after last injection of Test C**
Clomid 25mgED Nolva 20mgED Aromasin 20mgED
14 Clomid 25mgED Nolva 20mgED Aromasin 20mgED
15 Clomid 25mgED Nolva 20mgED Aromasin 20mgED
16 Clomid 25mgED Nolva 20mgED
17 Clomid 25mgED Nolva 20mgED


Other Supplements used throughout:
Milk Thistle
Nizoral Shampoo
Glutamine Solphate
Multivitamin
Fish Oil
Flax Seed oil

********************************************

However, I was reading Bignats post on steroids for dummies and he recommended this:

Cycle 4:
1 – 4 D-bol 40mg ED
1 – 10 Cyp 400mg/wk
1 – 12 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg ED

Start PCT 18 days after last Cyp injection

Now, I know PCT can be very confusing so I am probably just being an idiot, but could someone point me into the right direction?


Advice would be greatly appreciated!

[MBMETC]

sorry bro but at 21 no one will advice you on how to cycle

[kinderbueno]

FFS really? Okay, well I am going to quote from the home page "If youe;re under eighteen years old, you probably haven´t stopped growing yet. So answering  no to my first question means you run a very real risk of stunting your growth if you should choose to use steroids. In addition, I suppose there´s some kind of moral/ethical/legal issue in telling a minor that it´s alright to use steroids. So lets assume that if you´re still reading this, you´re of legal age to vote (but perhaps not to buy a beer which is another issue altogether )."

I am 21, so why can't I use roids. I am probably more advanced than most of the 26 year olds who gear up on here anyway. It is my body and my life so I can do what I want with it, why can't you guys just help me out?

[Eazy20]

FFS really? Okay, well I am going to quote from the home page "If youe;re under eighteen years old, you probably haven´t stopped growing yet. So answering no to my first question means you run a very real risk of stunting your growth if you should choose to use steroids. In addition, I suppose there´s some kind of moral/ethical/legal issue in telling a minor that it´s alright to use steroids. So lets assume that if you´re still reading this, you´re of legal age to vote (but perhaps not to buy a beer which is another issue altogether )."

I am 21, so why can't I use roids. I am probably more advanced than most of the 26 year olds who gear up on here anyway. It is my body and my life so I can do what I want with it, why can't you guys just help me out?

You are totally right. It is your body and your life and you are more than welcome to put whatever you want in it if you're 21 years old or 5 years old. HOWEVER, that being said, the general rule of thumb here is that your endocrine system is still developing up until 24-25 yrs old on average; and as such we are in no way inclined to help you in your endeavors. If you want to cycle before the recommended age on this forum, you'll have to do your own research and take the risk on your own. Good luck to you, and I hope you're wise enough to hold of a couple more years.

[kinderbueno]

Okay, I see where you are coming from and I appreciate it. I am going to book an appointment with my Doctor tomorrow anyway just so he can monitor me during my cycle. I'll check to see if my growth plates are closed yet, as I am taller than my mum and dad. If it turns out I still have a lot of growing to do I will wait another couple of years and then check again, if they are closed I'll go ahead. Fair?

[Eazy20]

Okay, I see where you are coming from and I appreciate it. I am going to book an appointment with my Doctor tomorrow anyway just so he can monitor me during my cycle. I'll check to see if my growth plates are closed yet, as I am taller than my mum and dad. If it turns out I still have a lot of growing to do I will wait another couple of years and then check again, if they are closed I'll go ahead. Fair?

Growth in height is not the only "growing" that occurs...Your brain is developing much far after growth plates have closed..Ie the endocrine system which is responsible for managing hormones and keeping your body in homeostasis. Flushing your body with an influx of synthetic hormones before your endocrine system is finished developing could cause a variety of very serious problems such as, erectile dysfunction and low test levels for life. Nothing like being 21 and telling your girlfriend that you need 30min for your viagra to kick in before you can get some.

[kinderbueno]

Well I read that erectile dysfunction only really occurs in steroid abuse, the cycle I am doing is a smart first cycle with good PCT, I don't see how much can go wrong when I am not using huge dosages?

[MBMETC]

FFS really? Okay, well I am going to quote from the home page "If youe;re under eighteen years old, you probably haven´t stopped growing yet. So answering no to my first question means you run a very real risk of stunting your growth if you should choose to use steroids. In addition, I suppose there´s some kind of moral/ethical/legal issue in telling a minor that it´s alright to use steroids. So lets assume that if you´re still reading this, you´re of legal age to vote (but perhaps not to buy a beer which is another issue altogether )."

I am 21, so why can't I use roids. I am probably more advanced than most of the 26 year olds who gear up on here anyway. It is my body and my life so I can do what I want with it, why can't you guys just help me out?

at 5'7'' 150lbs why do you feel you need steroids to grow.
im 5'8" 192lbs and 13% bf surely you dont think you hit your natural limit

[kinderbueno]

I don't want to get as big as I can, I want to be 80/85Kgs shredded (<10%bf). I know on here everyone thinks you need to be as big as possible, but I train for aesthetics more than max size. And a cycle is exactly what that will help me achieve. I have my own personal reasons why I don't want to do a cycle later on.

[MBMETC]

I don't want to get as big as I can, I want to be 80/85Kgs shredded (<10%bf). I know on here everyone thinks you need to be as big as possible, but I train for aesthetics more than max size. And a cycle is exactly what that will help me achieve. I have my own personal reasons why I don't want to do a cycle later on.

you have been training 2 years and according to you your die is ok, if bb is in your blood you waould have your diet dialed in.
work on your diet and train hard and im sure your result will come. its been 2 years how about paying your dues.

[Windex]

21 5'7" 68Kgs 10%

Your smaller than some of the females that post on this forum and train at the gym I go to.

YOU WILL NOT KEEP ANY OF YOUR GAINS OR POUNDS LOST IF YOU CANNOT EAT PROPERLY.

Go to the diet section, get your diet fixed, and work on training & eating properly.

Everyone here has already mentioned everything else. You understand so little and your willing to potentially ruin your body for the rest of your life.

[THE-DET-OAK]

you are too young as everyone has pointed out. everyone says your plates are closed by 21 but there is some eveidence that it takes more time than that. I myself grew like an inch and half from 21-25.

guys that are silly enough to cycle that young better go to the doc and see if they have closed. estrogen is what closes the plates. so young guys better take an AI to keep the E2 in normal range if they are going to go against the grain.

[THE-DET-OAK]

good point i didnt even catch that.

[marcus300]

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

[Bigd89]

Im 21 as well, bro. I was determined to cycle real soon but had a change of heart. I decided to play it safe and wait a couple more years. It sucks.

[marcus300]

You don't need steroids, and you do need help with your diet otherwise you wouldn't be 68kgs. You won't stop the negative sides. Your listening to the wrong people and I can see I'm wasting my time posting the information I've already posted. Best of luck you will need it.

[Honkey_Kong]

Kinderbueno, I can see you're not going to listen to anyone on here and go ahead with your cycle. I just hope you also have the ESPN package with your cable or satellite provider. You're going to need something to fill up your time when you cant get it up to plow your future girlfriend.

By the way, if you're 5'7 and 150lbs, you don't have a good diet. You don't eat enough to have a diet. I'm willing to bet your training sucks as much as your eating does too.

[Buddhabody]

I love the informaton on here......I'm always learning......Good luck to you bro.......My advice is to focus on your diet and hardcore lifting......Leave the gear alone for a few years. Best of luck to you