Ghrp-2/ghrh

[SUPERMAN5039]

Ok I found this on the The Journal of Clinical Endorcrinology + Metabolism site. I'm not sure if I should put it here on on the HRT site.

Sustained Elevation of Pulsatile Growth Hormone (GH) Secretion and Insulin-Like Growth Factor I (IGF-I), IGF-Binding Protein-3 (IGFBP-3), and IGFBP-5 Concentrations during 30-Day Continuous Subcutaneous Infusion of GH-Releasing Peptide-2 in Older Men and Women


Cyril Y. Bowers, Ramona Granda, Subburaman Mohan, Jonathan Kuipers, David Baylink and Johannes D. Veldhuis
Tulane University Health Sciences Center (C.Y.B., R.G.), New Orleans, Louisiana 70112; Loma Linda University, J. L. Pettit Veterans Affairs Medical Center (S.M., D.B.), Loma Linda, California 92357; and Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine, Mayo Medical and Graduate Schools, General Clinical Research Center, Mayo Clinic (J.K., J.D.V.), Rochester, Minnesota 55905
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Cyril Y. Bowers, Tulane University Health Sciences Center, Box SL 53, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112. E-mail: rjabower{at}tulane.edu.


Abstract
We test the interlinked hypotheses that in healthy older adults: 1) iv injection of GH-releasing peptide-2 (GHRP-2) and GHRH synergizes more in aging women than men; 2) sc infusion of both GHRP-2 (1 μg/kg·h = 1) and GHRH (1, 3, or 10) for 24 h augments GH secretion more than either agonist alone; and 3) continuous sc delivery of GHRP-2 (1) for 30 d stimulates daily GH secretion and IGF-I, IGF-binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3), and IGFBP-5. Acute two-peptide synergy was 3-fold greater in young (n = 16) than older volunteers (n = 17; P < 0.025) and was 2.3-fold higher in elderly women than men (P < 0.025). The 24-h infusion of GHRP-2 (1) combined with GHRH (3 or 10) in men and with GHRH (10) in women drove GH secretion more than GHRH alone (P ≤ 0.024). In the entire cohort (n = 11), GHRP-2/GHRH (1/10) stimulated GH secretion more than either GHRP-2 (1; P = 0.021) or GHRH (10; P = 0.012). The 30-d delivery of GHRP-2 (1; n = 17 subjects): 1) stimulated pulsatile, rhythmic, and entropic GH secretion by more than 3-fold on d 1 and more than 1.8-fold on d 14 and 30 (each P < 0.001 vs. saline); 2) elevated IGF-I to a stable plateau on d 1, 14, and 30 (P < 0.025 vs. baseline); and 3) increased IGFBP-3 (P < 0.01) and IGFBP-5 (P < 0.025) on d 14 and/or 30. Safety screening tests remained normal. In summary, in healthy elderly women and men: 1) acute synergy of GHRP-2 and GHRH is greater in the female; 2) 24-h combined GHRP-2 and GHRH drive is more effective than either agonist alone; and 3) 30-d stimulation with GHRP-2 sustains a physiologically activated somatotropic axis. We conclude that age, gender, stimulus duration, and secretagogue combination determine acute, intermediate, and extended responses of the somatotropic axis in the older adult.

It appears that these peptides work better in younger men and women than older men. And it verifies that both GHRP- 2 and GHRH are more effective together. The study did not indicate at what doseage the test subjects were injected SC.

[Hondarocks]

Thanks for posting, feel a lot better about the GHRH and GHRP now that I am taking them. I am 29. I am doing 3-4 injections 7 days a week of these two and doing the synthetic injections 5 on 2 off. So I figure on the weekends I am getting a total of 8-10iu's of natural release and during the week I am getting 14-16iu's a day. I am also doing the T4.

[SUPERMAN5039]

Thanks for posting, feel a lot better about the GHRH and GHRP now that I am taking them. I am 29. I am doing 3-4 injections 7 days a week of these two and doing the synthetic injections 5 on 2 off. So I figure on the weekends I am getting a total of 8-10iu's of natural release and during the week I am getting 14-16iu's a day. I am also doing the T4.

If you go to the site that I got this abstract from there are other abstracts from other trials they conducted. I'm waiting on peptides to run along with my pharm grade hgh. One of the trials mentioned running L-arginine with the peptides to further bloster the peptides and gh secretion. I'm going to include that alongwith T-4 which should be in this week. I'm going to amp up slowly. I plan on being at 6iu (daily) of the peptides by my 3rd month. I'm going to keep my pharm grade hgh at 2 iu for the duration( I have 20 weeks @ 2iu daily). If I don't get the results I think I should then I will bump up the pharm hgh and go from there. But, it seems there is alot of info on peptides, as I've read other sites which stated that peptides could replace synthetic gh for treating gh deficenies and it reflects your own gh secretion better than syn gh. I'll see what happens as I plan on being on both for a while. Good luck to you.

[M302_Imola]

If you go to the site that I got this abstract from there are other abstracts from other trials they conducted. I'm waiting on peptides to run along with my pharm grade hgh. One of the trials mentioned running L-arginine with the peptides to further bloster the peptides and gh secretion. I'm going to include that alongwith T-4 which should be in this week. I'm going to amp up slowly. I plan on being at 6iu (daily) of the peptides by my 3rd month. I'm going to keep my pharm grade hgh at 2 iu for the duration( I have 20 weeks @ 2iu daily). If I don't get the results I think I should then I will bump up the pharm hgh and go from there. But, it seems there is alot of info on peptides, as I've read other sites which stated that peptides could replace synthetic gh for treating gh deficenies and it reflects your own gh secretion better than syn gh. I'll see what happens as I plan on being on both for a while. Good luck to you.

So when are you going to dose your L-Arginine?

[SUPERMAN5039]

I found this on the site. If I read it correctly, a trial study was done injecting synthetic gh 2 hours before GHRP-2. I've read posts here where it is suggested to inject the peptides first then the gh. The abstract also indicates that testosterone usage @ 200 mgs 3 x weekly help elevate gh secretions and blunt negative gh feed back on gh secretion. If I read it correctly.

As far as the L-arginine the abstract does not indicate a doseage, or duration on introducing it alongwith the peptides. I will look around more to see if I can get this information.

Short-Term Testosterone Supplementation Relieves Growth Hormone Autonegative Feedback in Men

Johannes D. Veldhuis, William S. Evans, Ali Iranmanesh, Arthur L. Weltman and Cyril Y. Bowers
Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism (J.D.V.), Department of Internal Medicine, Mayo Medical and Graduate Schools of Medicine, General Clinical Research Center, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota 55905; Division of Endocrinology (W.S.E., A.L.W.), Department of Internal Medicine, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology (W.S.E.), General Clinical Research Center, and Department of Human Services (A.L.W.), School of Education, General Clinical Research Center, University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908; Research and Development Office (A.I.), Salem Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Salem, Virginia 24153; and Department of Internal Medicine (C.Y.B.), Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Tulane Medical School, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112-2699
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Johannes D. Veldhuis, Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine, Mayo Medical and Graduate Schools of Medicine, General Clinical Research Center, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota 55905. E-mail: veldhuis.johannes{at}mayo.edu.

Abstract
The present study tests the postulate that testosterone (Te) stimulates GH secretion, in part, by attenuating autonegative feedback. To this end, 13 healthy men (ages 43–71 yr) received three consecutive weekly im injections of placebo (Pl) (n = 7) or Te (200 mg) (n = 6) in a prospectively randomized, double-blind, parallel-cohort design. An iv pulse of saline or recombinant human (rh)GH (3 μg/kg·6 min) was infused 2 h before bolus saline or GH-releasing peptide (GHRP)-2 (1 μg/kg) in the fasting state. Blood was withdrawn every 10 min, GH concentrations were quantitated by chemiluminometry, secretion was determined by deconvolution analysis, and outcomes were compared by ANOVA. After Pl, rhGH suppressed basal, pulsatile, and GHRP-2-stimulated GH secretion by 2.6-, 2.4-, and 2.1-fold, respectively (each P < 0.03), and truncated GHRP-2-stimulated GH secretory bursts (P < 0.005). Compared with Pl, Te: 1) stimulated basal and pulsatile GH secretion by 1.9 and 2.4-fold (P < 0.01 and P < 0.02), respectively; 2) reduced feedback on basal GH secretion (P < 0.01); 3) blunted GHRP-2-stimulation by 1.9-fold (P < 0.01); and 4) facilitated initial recovery of rhGH-suppressed GH concentrations (P < 0.005). The foregoing actions were selective, inasmuch as Te did not relieve autoinhibition of pulsatile GH secretion.

In summary, short-term Te supplementation decreases rhGH-imposed negative feedback on basal GH secretion and enhances early escape of GH from autoinhibition. In principle, such actions could potentiate the renewal of high-amplitude pulses of GH in androgen-replete individuals.

[SUPERMAN5039]

This is what I found from the site for L-Arginine usage with GHRP-2. It states L-Arginine was iv infused over a 30 minute period alongwith the GHRP-2, but it does not indicate a doseage. I'm going to run the arginine at the recommended daily doseage with the ghrp-2 and see what happens. I'm in for the long haul and I'm not expecting a whole body transfomation overnight.

Consecutive iv infusion of l-arginine over 30 min, followed by bolus iv injection of a maximally stimulatory dose of GHRH or GHRP-2, induced marked GH release (Fig. 2A⇓). Pulsatile GH secretion after successive l-arginine/GHRH stimulation was 21-fold, and that after l-arginine/GHRP-2 was 56-fold, higher than baseline unstimulated values in young men (both P < 0.0001). By comparison, GHRH and GHRP-2-stimulated GH responses were only 8.6-fold (P = 0.031 vs. young) and 24-fold (P = 0.055 vs. young) baseline values, respectively, in older men. In absolute terms, pulsatile GH secretion (μg/liter · 3 h) was also significantly greater in young men than in older men after maximal GHRH (P = 0.021) and GHRP-2 (P = 0.045) stimulation (Fig. 2B⇓). In contrast, there was no age difference in unstimulated pulsatile GH secretion assessed during saline infusion.

[SUPERMAN5039]

So when are you going to dose your L-Arginine?

Ok I found this:

Taking a few capsules of arginine will have no effect on growth hormone in adults, although arginine by be beneficial for other reasons. Arginine's growth hormone release is greatly enhanced if supplemental choline and B5 (calcium pantothenate) are taken at the same time. The choline can be in the form of any available form of choline or DMAE supplement. (Centrophenoxine, a very safe substance available from European or Mexican pharmacies, can also be used as a choline source. Centrophenoxine is converted to choline in the body.)

The effectiveness of arginine as a growth hormone releaser is highly unpredictable. There are great individual differences in the effectiveness of arginine as a growth hormone releaser, and the effect diminishes dramatically with increasing age. The effectiveness of arginine can best be maintained by not taking it continuously. A schedule of something like four weeks of continuous use followed by a two-week break generally works best.

The effectiveness of arginine in releasing growth hormone is greatly diminished if foods have been consumed that cause other amino acids or significant amounts of insulin to be present in the bloodstream along with the arginine. That is why the arginine should be taken on an empty stomach (i.e., at least one hour before or three hours after a meal).

Growth hormone releasers should not be used by young people until five years after they have completed their long bone growth (unless under careful medical supervision). The effectiveness of arginine for growth hormone release is very age-dependent. It usually causes a massive growth hormone release in people in their 20s. By the time a person reaches their late 40s or early 50s, however, arginine often still causes a very small growth hormone release, but the growth hormone levels rarely approach youthful levels.

[Hondarocks]

Thanks for all the info, I dont think I will be doing the arginine based because the evidence just is not that compelling. Im taking a lot of Serostim and Peptides, I think its doing the job fine and the only way to get more benefit is to do a cyle of test and primobolan.