Dr. Crisler Interview on SQ Testosterone Injections

[steroid.com 1]

Fellows - On Feb. 7th Dr. Crisler was interviewed by Carol Lanore on his Internet radio show Super Human Radio. Crisler has been interviewed by Lanore many times the past few years (see all interviews on the link below) and I find them all extremely interesting and another way to build knowledge.

You will hear Crisler speak to SQ vs IM testosterone injections by following the first link titled "Sub Q Injections: How, Where and How Much" on the link below. You will also see Crisler's other links to past interviews some of which are rich in learning as you will hear the insights of one of the leading Physician's in TRT. Make sure to close the space between the . and com when you past into your browser.

There are 3 interviews on this show and Crisler is the 2nd of the three so you might want to FF.



Crisler finally "gives in" to Shippen's pushing him to testing SQ with his patients. He also states clearly that there is no concrete studies on the effectiveness of SQ vs. IM especially not knowing half life via SQ.

Overall, he doesn't really see any significant issues, however, and admits to the smother levels vs the spikes "zig-zag" we see with IM and thinks SQ may be on the cutting edge of injections.

He'll even give you his injection protocol as well but what I found interesting is he recommends that a man not inject more then 40 mg at one time...which makes sense as SQ should be a more frequent injection cycle vs IM.

Enjoy my friends!

[bass]

ahhhhhh, finally from the horses month! so for us who take 120 mgs per week should we inject 3 times a week SQ? they really need to do an official study and make it final. good post as usual GD, i think this should be sticky at least until SQ becomes mainstream. Thanks!

[steroid.com 1]

ahhhhhh, finally from the horses month! so for us who take 120 mgs per week should we inject 3 times a week SQ? they really need to do an official study and make it final. good post as usual GD, i think this should be sticky at least until SQ becomes mainstream. Thanks!

Yes bass, with SQ he likes smaller doses more frequently like an EOD schedule which would be ideal.

Crisler likes it if for no other reason then a man not needing to puncture his muscles thousands of times.

It's an interesting interview and I think helps to some extent clear the smoke a bit on the subject.

Finally, Dr. Shippen has been a huge advocate of SQ for many years and he ain't chopped liver

[kelkel]

I'm on it! Thanks GD!

[steroid.com 1]

I'm on it! Thanks GD!

Kel, he talks to so many other things in his interview with Lanore it's really great.

Listen to his discussion on the use of needles and syringes and the wast of Testosterone and how it adds up over time...really interesting.

And he still likes gels do to the consistent levels and uptake...but doesn't talk to poor absorbers.

Thinks SQ is an odd injection compared to IM...

Just a ton of good shit.

[PetrX]

This is great news for me ! =]

[bass]

come to think of it, you can do it EOD between your hCG and Test shots, basically you do hCG one day and the next day you do Test and so on! think of the 48 hour peak, your test levels will be allot more stable! hmmmmm!

[steroid.com 1]

come to think of it, you can do it EOD between your hCG and Test shots, basically you do hCG one day and the next day you do Test and so on! think of the 48 hour peak, your test levels will be allot more stable! hmmmmm!

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking b

[ecdysone]

your test levels will be allot more stable! hmmmmm!

Yes, but here's the "ringer": how do you know that's a better way of administering test? For example, the studies with sublingual test showed peak levels into the low thousands, with a "half-life" of just a few hours, yet this route seems to produce good responses. Might just be your body needs that spike for the desired effects to take place.

[ecdysone]

Thanks gd, always interesting. Good to see Dr. John finally catching up with everyone else regards SQ.

Just as a point of clarification, he doesn't like his guys injecting 0.5 cc SQ unless they split it into two doses but admits he doesn't scientifically understand the process, nor did I hear him recommend more than twice per week injections.

Actually, I always liked Lanore's candid conversation more than that of his guests!

[bass]

who cares about the spikes or effects as long as your free T is stable and in the high normal range. i take 120 mgs split into 2 shots per week and my free T was above normal while my total T was 550 or so! maybe the spikes have other benefits who knows! our bodies produce testosterone continuously, not 1, 2 or 3 times a week, so logically it seems that if we administer more frequent we are mimicking our bodies production (GD's famous words). remember we're talking only 30-40 mgs per shot three times a week.

[ecdysone]

Well hell then...why not just do an IV drip?

[kelkel]

Well hell then...why not just do an IV drip?

Good one! Maybe a thigh pump!

[--->>405<<---]

i must just be an idiot but i dont see anything on there about crisler or an interview or super human radio???????

[jamotech]

I liked his reference to dumping the oil cans in the garbage bag! Even though he's on board with SQ he brings up that there is no understanding of the half times, ect, and did sound fairly skeptical of the whole SQ usage before he brought up the fact that pinning your muscle 1000 in a decade is crazy.

The test solution everyone uses is the same for IM or SQ, since muscle is different than fat id think the solution would be different for each. Id think a higher concentration solution would be better for SQ, it must hurt less, no nerves in fat, and maybe less of a ball of oil under the skin that I keep hearing about. Im sure once I get dialed in ill try it, mostly because if your gonna pin your muscle 2x a week its just not good in the long run.

[JD250]

Does he speak to the reason he recommends such low doses for sub Q, there are implications with no evidence, not to say he doesn't know what he's talking about but I like evidence and reasoning.....I've injected 200 mgs/ 1cc per SQ injection and could feel no difference.....why is it bad?

My understanding of the peaks and valleys is probably somewhat simplistic but isn't there a corresponding rise and fall of dopamine?

[jamotech]

if SQ has a smoother release which is probably also a slower release, I wouldnt think increasing dosage frequency is going to help anything?

[HRTstudent]

if SQ has a smoother release which is probably also a slower release, I wouldnt think increasing dosage frequency is going to help anything?

Crisler points out that there simply aren't any studies done on the pharmacokinetics of subq testosterone. So it's really just conjecture but ultimately it seems like Crisler still uses IM as his bread and butter compared to SQ.

[Herman Munster]

I’m having a hard time agreeing with the portion of the argument against IM because of the pinning of the muscle multiple times. I assume this is directed for those who administer to the same muscle or general area at each injection? I rotate through delts to quads; I am every 5 days, by the time I return to my left delt 20 days have passed. This is not adequate time for muscle to heal the hole a 25ga needle created? Even at 2x a week, 2 weeks would pass before the next injection, what is the duration required for adequate healing of the site?

BASS - Are you currently SubQ? Have you been IM in the past or has anyone (long time TRT'ers) been both and tested at each, curious to know your SubQ vs. IM results.

Thanks

[JohnnyVegas]

I'm confused. Of course levels are more stable when you inject EOD. But that defeats the purpose of a long ester. If I am going to inject EOD I might as well use Prop. This seems to be headed in the wrong direction to me.

Yes, I know that injecting SQ is easier so EOD wouldn't be as bad as EOD IM, but I don't have a problem injecting.

And just how stable do we need our levels to be? I feel just as good injecting Cyp twice a week as I do Prop every day. I think we are starting to solve problems that don't actually exist.

If it is better simply because it is easier...then I get it.

[APIs]

I'm confused. Of course levels are more stable when you inject EOD. But that defeats the purpose of a long ester. If I am going to inject EOD I might as well use Prop. This seems to be headed in the wrong direction to me.

Yes, I know that injecting SQ is easier so EOD wouldn't be as bad as EOD IM, but I don't have a problem injecting.

And just how stable do we need our levels to be? I feel just as good injecting Cyp twice a week as I do Prop every day. I think we are starting to solve problems that don't actually exist.

If it is better simply because it is easier...then I get it.

x2. Especially "the solving problems that just don't exist." I mean if you like SQ then fine, that's great & nothing is wrong with that. I just don't see the research that validates its true effectiveness over IM & I feel there's more Bro-Science going on here than a presentation of hard facts to back it up. Unless, I am truly missing the data that exists on the subject? Me personally, IM is simply more convenient 2xweek with my hectic schedule than SQ EOD and I too feel great. I would hate to see people questioning their IM Protocol over this when in reality it's not warranted.

BTW, Gdevine I see why you're upset. Seems to be some large Egos at work here thinking they can alter threads like this without explanation... The effort & dedication that's put in here deserves better than that. Just remember, we're a great community here & we all can continue to help one another at different venues if need be.

[bass]

i believe spikes is what creates e2 conversion, and SQ seems to minimize it, at least according to that Canadian study posted by GD. so even smaller injection EOD seems to make sense in terms of creating less e2 conversion, less AI, less stress on the liver and lipid! in fact i am willing to be a guinea pig and try it without AI (or less AI) for 4 weeks then do blood work to see how it works!

Herman, yes i do SQ and IM injections depending on my mood, but when i was on SQ exclusively my blood work came back with free T at above normal, and my total at about 550. i was on 60 mgs twice a week, very nice results!

[steroid.com 1]

I am sorry fellows but it appears, at least to me, that the link to the page where you can find the interview has been removed from my original post.

This is a very unfortunate turn of events and totally counter to what we are all here for (I may have to rethink my membership here).

My sincere apologies; my intentions were only good for you all and nothing more.

PS. I think you can figure out how to Google the interview of Feb 7th.

gd

[bass]

I am sorry fellows but it appears, at least to me, that the link to the page where you can find the interview has been removed from my original post.

This is a very unfortunate turn of events and totally counter to what we are all here for (I may have to rethink my membership here).

My sincere apologies; my intentions were only good for you all and nothing more.

PS. I think you can figure out how to Google the interview of Feb 7th.

gd

i hope not GD, you are a great asset not only to us in this section but to this site! i am sure there is a reason, but whomever edited your post should have at least explained why!

[steroid.com 1]

i hope not GD, you are a great asset not only to us in this section but to this site! i am sure there is a reason, but whomever edited your post should have at least explained why!

It's a privately owned site and the owners can do as they please...I get that...but it borders on Internet Censorship to me especially when content of a very relevant and timely nature that can improve a mans health and well being is eliminated for any reason is problematic to me and counter to my membership and dedication to this forum.

The core of this entire forum is dedicated to the passing of information and knowledge for the health and well being of ALL members and eliminating sources of validated information that can be a significant benefit to a members health for any reason just isn't right in my book.

Why waste my time anymore???

[keep fightin]

GD! you can loose a battle and win the war, don't even think your wasting your time.I joined this site because of you and several other great vets, please continue to share. Why did the link go into the black hole? some one should explain. I'm getting all choked up, good thing my 60mg SQ inject is tomorrow morning!

[kelkel]

GD! you can loose a battle and win the war, don't even think your wasting your time.I joined this site because of you and several other great vets, please continue to share. Why did the link go into the black hole? some one should explain. I'm getting all choked up, good thing my 60mg SQ inject is tomorrow morning!

Keep Fighting you might want to check your E2 level! HA!

[lovbyts]

When I did almost 1cc I got a lump and it was sore for a good week. When I cut it down to 1/2cc everything was fine. Some people seem to be ok with more but I would rather do it 2x a week if need be.

[JD250]

The Canadian research DOES seam to show less e2 conversion, EOD??.....I'm gonna pass on it for right now but if it can be done with no AI. Why not? I'm kinda thinking like Bass, as soon as I'm done with my Deca I will switch back to a sub Q and maybe try it with no AI and see how it goes.

However I will say this, if there is no appreciable difference in e2 conversion I will still do SQ once a week just because it's easy, cheap and painless.

[ecdysone]

The Canadian research DOES seam to show less e2 conversion, EOD??

See, now that I would doubt. From what I've read, E2 production pretty much tracks test concentration. High peak test levels, then high peak E2 levels. However it's the AUC (an integrated concentration vs. time) that will likely determine what effects are experienced. It's not as though E2 production cascades at a certain level of test, but is produced at all levels. It's important as a feedback chemical in the HPTA axis.

I believe Dr. John feels there is an inflammatory response to higher volumes of test oil when injected SQ, so he's advocating injecting 0.25cc or less. I've personally had severe inflammatory pockets formed when trying anything >0.75 cc, but nothing if less.

The great mystery is why no one has performed a peer-reviewed study of SQ injections of test oils.

[kelkel]

GD what if you just edited your post and "explained" where to go without inserting the link to avoid issues?

Also. Your not allowed to leave. A lot of us are here due to you and others like you (you know who you are.) This is a small hurdle which we can overcome!

ps: I know where you live......

[steroid.com 1]

GD what if you just edited your post and "explained" where to go without inserting the link to avoid issues?

Also. Your not allowed to leave. A lot of us are here due to you and others like you (you know who you are.) This is a small hurdle which we can overcome!

ps: I know where you live......

First, let me say a huge heartfelt Thank You to all my brothers here for the kind and caring words...it's why I call this place home and nowhere else.

I was just hurt that a link like the one posted here would be deleted without any explanation...it was so beneficial on so many levels.

I, like many of you, put a lot of personal time and effort into our posts all for the benefit of our members and I just got pissed off...but I am better now.

I think most guys here know how to find Crisler's interview with Lanore anyway.

Thanks guys for everything, trust me when I say I greatly appreciate it and more importantly your friendship

Peace.

gd

[spywizard]

When I did almost 1cc I got a lump and it was sore for a good week. When I cut it down to 1/2cc everything was fine. Some people seem to be ok with more but I would rather do it 2x a week if need be.

yep, that's what happened to me.. i'll try the smaller dose as well

[bass]

yep, that's what happened to me.. i'll try the smaller dose as well

i got lumps and lasted a week or so at the beginning, but later they got better but didn't get eliminated, still lasted a day or two even at smaller doses, however i found that injecting at 45 degrees and about 4" away from belly button totally eliminated the lumps, i was doing them 2" away from belly button, perhaps too close!

[bullshark99]

Agree above with API, I go IM just once a week, personally I do not feel the peaks and valleys. I feel good day 6 as I do day 2 in general. I do NOT like the "shot" although painless and never had a problem, hitting the nerve although probability next to non-existant if you hit the right area still messes with me alitle in the head (mind games). Sub Q is intriguing, but once a week is convenient for me anyhow.

GD, feel your frusration, you are an asset here, make no mistake about it! Please re-think your decision to move on.

[JD250]

Don't drop out just yet GD, I totally understand your frustration, I've posed the same questions and concerns on this board too, stick with us and lets see if we can work with Admin and find a way to get the info we need on the board without a direct link. I know it seems like BS but on a board this size I do understand the direct link rule, not only would it be impossible to keep on top of all of them but right at this time direct links can also be a legal issue although i suspect this one is a sponsor issue considering the advertisements during the interviews. None of that matters anyways, what does matter is that we ALL work with Admin and find out how we can conduct business within the guidelines, as much as they suck we still need to follow them and we need YOU to stay and keep helping us. And not you alone but there are several folks on this forum that deserve a big thank you and we don't want to lose any of you.

Let's talk with admin and see how we can get our info posted without problems, there must be a way. At least if we knew EXACTLY WHY, we could approach it from a different angle maybe.

[Vettester]

Let's talk with admin and see how we can get our info posted without problems, there must be a way. At least if we knew EXACTLY WHY, we could approach it from a different angle maybe.

I have been in contact with Admin on this subject. For now, the rules stand as they are, we can't post links to clinics and other forums. I know a few myself that I would enjoy talking about and sharing with other members, but it's just the platform we have set.

Gdevine, I understand your frustration, I don't think anyone meant you any disrespect, I'm sure Admin had several things on the plate when this happened.

[steroid.com 1]

I have been in contact with Admin on this subject. For now, the rules stand as they are, we can't post links to clinics and other forums. I know a few myself that I would enjoy talking about and sharing with other members, but it's just the platform we have set.

Gdevine, I understand your frustration, I don't think anyone meant you any disrespect, I'm sure Admin had several things on the plate when this happened.

Thanks Vette I understand...just frustrated for the guys.

Appreciate the help very much.

[bullshark99]

Forgot about that KelKel, I got him tracked down to about a 1 mile radious!! LOL

[gearbox]

The spike of e2 makes sense to me after reading everything and would love to see the results of a member running this for trial and error purposes