How I see recreational using of AAS, in chart form!!

[thex95]

This is sort of how I see it in chart form. Bottom axes representing weeks, and the blue line representing a persons LBM, the red line indicating genetic max. So over prolonged non usage the LBM returns to the individuals genetic max. Would anyone agree with this chart with regards to AAS usage?

NOTE: THE NUMBERS IN THIS CHART HAVE BEEN CREATED MERELY TO REPRESENT A VISUAL EXAMPLE OF WHAT I BELEIVE TO BE THE RESULT OF STOPPING THE USE OF AAS. THE PURPOSE WAS TO SHOW THE INDIVIDUAL RETURNING TO THEIR GENETIC MAX AFTER PROLONGED NON USE OF AAS

[Atomini]

Where did you get this chart from and where did the data come from that this chart is based upon?

[thex95]

Where did you get this chart from and where did the data come from that this chart is based upon?

100% MADE UP

My apologies I should have specified that. I do not in any way want to deceive anyone. These figures were simply created to illustrate what I beleive to be long term effects of not using AAS for a long time. These figures come from research I have ben doing on this forum, stating that when you go off you will eventually return to your genetic max.

[thelib]

Once you reach your genetic max, you can't maintain that extra muscle at a low bodyfat. Therefore you have to stay on gear and/or gh.

[Test pilot]

I just had to reply as I would class myself as a recreational user and I have several friends who probably fit that bill as well. I am not competitive as an athlete, I have used and will continue to use AAS purely for fun and/or to shortcut nature. I don't eat particularly well, besides the fact that I genuinely like meat and vegetables and I don't have much of a sweet tooth. I was probably pushing 30% BF when I did my first cycle - I'm prolly still around 20%, give or take a couple. Just illustrating why I call myself "recreational"
Anyway, all I wanted to say here is that after each of the 2 cycles I have done (separated by 2 years, the last one about 6 months ago) I have seen positive changes in my body that have remained even after going off cycle, even after losing focus or getting busy with work and home and falling off the wagon at the gym. I am now 30, I still eat like I'm 20, and while my friends are getting softer with age, I keep getting a little bit closer to the build I have wanted since I was 16. One of my best friends has a similar experience. I haven't experienced any acute sides from the gear itself (no gyno, no acne, and I think any hair loss was my imagination). So from my perspective, based on extremely limited experience, recreational use is not without its benefits.
On the downside: I failed miserably at PCT my first cycle and spent 6 months feeling like a whipped bitch - I almost lost my job because I suddenly wasn't dominant enough to manage my department effectively. My soon-to-be ex almost caught me the last time, that probably would have cost me my kids. They're kind of an expensive hobby for what amounts to masturbation. I also do not claim that they are harmless - make sure you can make an educated decision regarding cost/benefit. In other words, is the juice worth the squeeze?
for me personally, Imma keep going. There are lots of unhealthy and dangerous things you can do to yourself. Im going with the one that makes me look good and feel good about myself.

[Bonaparte]

That's fairly accurate, IMO. But few guys will ever achieve their genetic max naturally, so they could still end up bigger and stronger than before. Strength being the key point here, as the strength gains from AAS can stick around much better than the mass gains (since much of that is CNS-based). AAS use can also cause certain visual changes in the muscle that one may not have been able to achieve naturally (striations, etc).

What is the conclusion you're arriving at?

[thex95]

That's fairly accurate, IMO. But few guys will ever achieve their genetic max naturally, so they could still end up bigger and stronger than before. Strength being the key point here, as the strength gains from AAS can stick around much better than the mass gains (since much of that is CNS-based).

What is the conclusion you're arriving at?

the more and more I think about cycling again the more I think its just not for me. I would really love to add some more solid pounds of muscle, but if its just going to go away after a while then whats the point you know? I honestly dont plan on staying on and I would like to avoid TRT so maybe another cycle just isnt in the future for me.

My main conclusion being if you dont plan on staying on, then why start?

[Bonaparte]

the more and more I think about cycling again the more I think its just not for me. I would really love to add some more solid pounds of muscle, but if its just going to go away after a while then whats the point you know? I honestly dont plan on staying on and I would like to avoid TRT so maybe another cycle just isnt in the future for me.

My main conclusion being if you dont plan on staying on, then why start?

If you don't feel psychologically driven to get bigger and stronger than naturally possible, then you're correct. There is no good point in the long term. If you're satisfied with what you can naturally achieve and maintain, save yourself from a lot of money, headache, and risk.

[thex95]

If you don't feel psychologically driven to get bigger and stronger than naturally possible, then you're correct. There is no good point in the long term. If you're satisfied with what you can naturally achieve and maintain, save yourself from a lot of money, headache, and risk.

oh I am definetley not satisfied I fricking hate how i look. But ya long term their is not point if you just do a few cycles and stop.

It seems one would have to cycle forever or get on TRT to have success exeeding genetic limits in the long term

[Judah]

oh I am definetley not satisfied I fricking hate how i look. But ya long term their is not point if you just do a few cycles and stop.

It seems one would have to cycle forever or get on TRT to have success exeeding genetic limits in the long term

I really really feel your not grasping this fully. There are plenty of reasons to do "a few" cycles and stop. You can use AS and still not reach your max potential and maintain a lot of the gains you achieved from those cycles. Your mind fuc-king your self brother. Cut yourself some slack lol.

[Razor]

oh I am definetley not satisfied I fricking hate how i look. But ya long term their is not point if you just do a few cycles and stop.

It seems one would have to cycle forever or get on TRT to have success exeeding genetic limits in the long term

Don't be so hard on yourself man, train hard eat right, you can overcome anything you set your mind too.

[Judah]

the more and more I think about cycling again the more I think its just not for me. I would really love to add some more solid pounds of muscle, but if its just going to go away after a while then whats the point you know? I honestly dont plan on staying on and I would like to avoid TRT so maybe another cycle just isnt in the future for me.

My main conclusion being if you dont plan on staying on, then why start?

"but if its just going to go away after a while then whats the point you know? "

Is this another way of saying "getting old" lol. Everything is lost in old age, eventually your heart stops beating lol. You can't even keep the hair on your head forever. So I think the answer is less specific than your making it. While your body can maintain it, what build do you want to achieve before your body can no longer hold on to it?

[t-dogg]

Well imo thats also going off getting older also. They made a saying long ago "if you dont use it, you lose it". I mean that chart could be for anything with the body without aas. You dont workout, diet, lift, live well you lose good health.

[gixxerboy1]

That's fairly accurate, IMO. But few guys will ever achieve their genetic max naturally, so they could still end up bigger and stronger than before. Strength being the key point here, as the strength gains from AAS can stick around much better than the mass gains (since much of that is CNS-based). AAS use can also cause certain visual changes in the muscle that one may not have been able to achieve naturally (striations, etc).

What is the conclusion you're arriving at?

exactly. Most guys think because that Plataead at what they were doing they are at their genetic max. If most realized making changes and gaining a couple lbs a year is still growing. They are not at their max.

[Razor]

I started at 160 and am now 200lbs. My father is 150lbs, I have surpassed my genetic limit and I dont ever see myself shrinking back down to 160 even if I never ran another cycle. Maintaining nutrion and exercise you can keep your gains, even without gear. I dont know about upper limits say above 225, but since that is my goal time will tell. With all the growth I have run its made a permanent change in my structure. And I can maintain 200lbs very easy now, even without eating 5-6 times a day.

[Stosh_112]

Genetic Mass Limitation is the key point to concentrate on. People dont realize that reaching ur GML before cycle is key to retaining the gains made during cycle. Nice post OP.

[Judah]

Genetic Mass Limitation is the key point to concentrate on. People dont realize that reaching ur GML before cycle is key to retaining the gains made during cycle. Nice post OP.

I disagree, but would love to hear your opinion. Maybe you can change mine.

[noon]

The way he is looking at it seems to me that he is simply worried that it will be a waste of time
I feel that the best way to go bout it is find something that you are comfortable with. give it a solid effort and see what stays with you that's going to be the best way and the only way to know what will work for you
stay inside your comfort zone at the end of the day its your body. best of luck

[Jonnyg419]

I'm gonna stop spiking up my hair when I go out, It's just gonna get fu**ed up when I shower anyway - said the wise man, haha

[thex95]

I'm gonna stop spiking up my hair when I go out, It's just gonna get fu**ed up when I shower anyway - said the wise man, haha

Lol funny comparison. Too bad you don't risk fines, damaging hpta, and gyno by spiking up your hair so the metaphor sort of falls through

[Judah]

I'm gonna stop spiking up my hair when I go out, It's just gonna get fu**ed up when I shower anyway - said the wise man, haha

Hah lmao, funny shit dude.

[JAB1]

thex95, I think youre right about yourself, you should not do aas. At 20-30% bf you dont even train recreational. You say your friends are getting soft, what do you call 20 plus % bf, lol... Not to be harshe but your clearly not dedicated enough to even think about aas, let alone do it. Hit the nutrition/workout sections and get some info there, that will get you going in the right direction. You say you are not happy with how you look, then change it, you are way off from needing aas to improve. I guarantee you you can genetically hold WAY more muscle than you have. I recomend cutting to atleast 12%bf and then doing a natural clean bulk from there, I tend to take isssue with the generalization of"genetic limit", as I think most people have no idea where that is for themselves, and use that term as an excuse for their subpar habits . Diet/training/rest/supplimentation/ etc can be tweaked changed etc to continue to grow and change well beyond what 99% of peope(yes myself incuded) consider to be there genetic max. In my opinion anything short of being hooked up to monitors for every possible reading and monitoring by the best docs in the world in all said fields for years of research is just a guess as to if your it the elusive genetic max plateau. Good luck man, do some reading here and you should start learning how to move forward and make some real progress, the biggest thing is actaully geting of your ass and doing it, day in and day out

[thex95]

thex95, I think youre right about yourself, you should not do aas. At 20-30% bf you dont even train recreational. You say your friends are getting soft, what do you call 20 plus % bf, lol... Not to be harshe but your clearly not dedicated enough to even think about aas, let alone do it. Hit the nutrition/workout sections and get some info there, that will get you going in the right direction. You say you are not happy with how you look, then change it, you are way off from needing aas to improve. I guarantee you you can genetically hold WAY more muscle than you have. I recomend cutting to atleast 12%bf and then doing a natural clean bulk from there, I tend to take isssue with the generalization of"genetic limit", as I think most people have no idea where that is for themselves, and use that term as an excuse for their subpar habits . Diet/training/rest/supplimentation/ etc can be tweaked changed etc to continue to grow and change well beyond what 99% of peope(yes myself incuded) consider to be there genetic max. In my opinion anything short of being hooked up to monitors for every possible reading and monitoring by the best docs in the world in all said fields for years of research is just a guess as to if your it the elusive genetic max plateau. Good luck man, do some reading here and you should start learning how to move forward and make some real progress, the biggest thing is actaully geting of your ass and doing it, day in and day out

LOL WHAT!?! Where are you getting these stats from man? I am currently hovering around 11-12% bf and working on a lean bulk. Heres my most recent pic take a look for yourself.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cs)&highlight=

[BlueWaffle21]

LOL WHAT!?! Where are you getting these stats from man? I am currently hovering around 11-12% bf and working on a lean bulk. Heres my most recent pic take a look for yourself.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cs)&highlight=

He confused you with Test Pilot!!

[thex95]

He confused you with Test Pilot!!

hahahaha frick!

[JAB1]

hahahaha frick!

My appologies thex95, yeah I definately confused you with testpilot... My bad. Youre pics look great man good work

[Test pilot]

He confused you with Test Pilot!!

True story - but that's why I classed myself as "recreational". And I stand by the original concept that there is a point even if you aren't a serious athlete. Steroids are no more harmful and at least as much fun as any other recreational drug, alcohol included. And I am happier with the way I look after each cycle. For me, that's more "the point" than any stats.
I am jealous of you guys with the sub-12% bf, though...

[Judah]

True story - but that's why I classed myself as "recreational". And I stand by the original concept that there is a point even if you aren't a serious athlete. Steroids are no more harmful and at least as much fun as any other recreational drug, alcohol included. And I am happier with the way I look after each cycle. For me, that's more "the point" than any stats.
I am jealous of you guys with the sub-12% bf, though...

I know every other member on here has basically dismissed your posts because you a poster child of exactly how not to run gear lol. That being said, despite the manner in which you did gear that makes most of our ass-holes itch, I really appreciate you no nonsense opinion that is based on real/personal experience.

[Shadowmaker]

steroids are a lifestyle choice... those who make it a part of their life, sooner or later will cycle again...

also, being on roids for many years kinda changes your body so when you get off them, it will never be the way it was - your body adopts to things... dont think that if you are 200lbs natural and gain 250lbs on roids, that you will take a year or two off roids and lose 50lbs during that time - if your diet is good and your training is ok, and if you have been 250lbs for a long time, its not goin anywhere soon... a few lbs here or there - yes, but not all of it...

and also, if we speak about far future and drug use... i think, many guys will want to use at least some test at 50 years of age or later on, just because of health and anti-aging benefits - look at Sly Stallone - the guy is 65...
everyone should use some test at older age, so you can just stack on some muscle now, and later on - if you want to have some sex drive and strenght to get out of bed, youll be doin roids anyway.

[Judah]

steroids are a lifestyle choice... those who make it a part of their life, sooner or later will cycle again...

also, being on roids for many years kinda changes your body so when you get off them, it will never be the way it was - your body adopts to things... dont think that if you are 200lbs natural and gain 250lbs on roids, that you will take a year or two off roids and lose 50lbs during that time - if your diet is good and your training is ok, and if you have been 250lbs for a long time, its not goin anywhere soon... a few lbs here or there - yes, but not all of it...

and also, if we speak about far future and drug use... i think, many guys will want to use at least some test at 50 years of age or later on, just because of health and anti-aging benefits - look at Sly Stallone - the guy is 65...
everyone should use some test at older age, so you can just stack on some muscle now, and later on - if you want to have some sex drive and strenght to get out of bed, youll be doin roids anyway.

Some very good truths here.

[DeadlyD]

Very interesting, good post.

[kelkel]

"No man I am fully grasping all this, i am just weighing the pros and cons to come to a well thought out conclusion."

Exactly what you should be doing.

"Also I feel the point your making is not comparable in terms of logic of what I am talking about. I realize everything is lost in old age, however I am talking about losing gains in a matter of many weeks. Losing everything with old age is a matter of many many years."

At what point do you think "old age" sets in and you start losing things? I don't feel you have to lose it all if proper diet and training is implemented knowledgeably. Basic lifts, intelligent training and proper eating are key. Hell, I'm old and I refuse to lose it.

[thex95]

"No man I am fully grasping all this, i am just weighing the pros and cons to come to a well thought out conclusion."

Exactly what you should be doing.

"Also I feel the point your making is not comparable in terms of logic of what I am talking about. I realize everything is lost in old age, however I am talking about losing gains in a matter of many weeks. Losing everything with old age is a matter of many many years."

At what point do you think "old age" sets in and you start losing things? I don't feel you have to lose it all if proper diet and training is implemented knowledgeably. Basic lifts, intelligent training and proper eating are key. Hell, I'm old and I refuse to lose it.

I like your attitude man!

I have no idea when old age sets in to cause losses. Frick I'm 24 and my dam hairline is already receeding and my hair is turning grey.

[kelkel]

Age seriously is a state of mind. Equally important is how you live your life in effort to maintain your youth and well being. Barring unforseen medical pathologies I think we can maintain a high degree of muscularity into old age. I know I am.

[thex95]

Age seriously is a state of mind. Equally important is how you live your life in effort to maintain your youth and well being. Barring unforseen medical pathologies I think we can maintain a high degree of muscularity into old age. I know I am.

care to share your stats bro? Just curious of what I can shoot for later in life

[kelkel]

care to share your stats bro? Just curious of what I can shoot for later in life

6', 220ish, be 55 later this year. Only do cardio when I cut the grass. Haven't done abs in 20 years. Basic Ectomorph frame if it wasn't for lifting. Oh, zero AAS use between 89 (last contest) and two years ago (would have lost job) when hit with a pituitary tumor which shut me down totally. Now just a TRT'er. 60 mg cyp every 3.5 days, HCG, that's it. No AI needed at that dosage. TRT put about 10lbs back on me that I lost when unknowingly growing the tumor crap. Lovely. The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years. Old school, basic lifts.

[austinite]

6', 220ish, be 55 later this year. Only do cardio when I cut the grass. Haven't done abs in 20 years. Basic Ectomorph frame if it wasn't for lifting.

Riding mowers don't count, kelkel!!

[thex95]

6', 220ish, be 55 later this year. Only do cardio when I cut the grass. Haven't done abs in 20 years. Basic Ectomorph frame if it wasn't for lifting. Oh, zero AAS use between 89 (last contest) and two years ago (would have lost job) when hit with a pituitary tumor which shut me down totally. Now just a TRT'er. 60 mg cyp every 3.5 days, HCG, that's it. No AI needed at that dosage. TRT put about 10lbs back on me that I lost when unknowingly growing the tumor crap. Lovely. The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years. Old school, basic lifts.

Your a beast good sir

[Shadowmaker]

The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years

hi 5 on this one

ive been working out in my appartment bedroom - i have a bed and next to it i have a 40 years old squat rack, a bench and 2 dumbbells with changable weights
oldschool 4ever

[Shadowmaker]

The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years

hi 5 on this one

ive been working out in my appartment bedroom - i have a bed and next to it i have a 40 years old squat rack, a bench and 2 dumbbells with changable weights
oldschool 4ever