too much protein.

[getfit28]

I always thought that 2 grams per body weight is fine but I just got done reading something different. O read that 1.5 grams is plenty and if you take too much it can lower your test. Now true is this????

[austinite]

No. That would mean a 200lb man at 30% BF would eat 400 grams of protein. So would a 200lb man at 5% BF. Why would you feed your fat?

Protein intake is more overrated than anything else on earth... literally.

1 to 1.5 grams per LBM is plenty. There's not many people on earth that actually need and utilize 400mg of protein.

[MuscleInk]

No. That would mean a 200lb man at 30% BF would eat 400 grams of protein. So would a 200lb man at 5% BF. Why would you feed your fat?

Protein intake is more overrated than anything else on earth... literally.

1 to 1.5 grams per LBM is plenty. There's not many people on earth than actually need and utilize 400mg of protein.

^^^I've had the same conversation with current members offline. The whole 1.5-2g of protein per LBM is an approximation at best and probably the most misunderstood concept in recreational body building.

Your enteric system cannot breakdown much more than 40g of protein every 2-3 hours. Any more than that and the calories are generally waisted since you'll be dumping them in the toilet. If you are eating about 40g of protein 6-7x a day, you'll be consuming plenty of protein for muscle growth - provided you're lifting and not sitting on the couch. Lol

[kelkel]

^^^I've had the same conversation with current members offline. The whole 1.5-2g of protein per LBM is an approximation at best and probably the most misunderstood concept in recreational body building.

Your enteric system cannot breakdown much more than 40g of protein every 2-3 hours. Any more than that and the calories are generally waisted since you'll be dumping them in the toilet. If you are eating about 40g of protein 6-7x a day, you'll be consuming plenty of protein for muscle growth - provided you're lifting and not sitting on the couch. Lol

I have to get off the couch? Deal breaker.

[MuscleInk]

I have to get off the couch? Deal breaker.

No, for you it's all genetics you lucky bastard!

[GirlyGymRat]

I have to get off the couch? Deal breaker.

Depends who else is on the couch!

[gbrice75]

^^^I've had the same conversation with current members offline. The whole 1.5-2g of protein per LBM is an approximation at best and probably the most misunderstood concept in recreational body building.

Your enteric system cannot breakdown much more than 40g of protein every 2-3 hours. Any more than that and the calories are generally waisted since you'll be dumping them in the toilet.

I respectfully disagree with the latter. Assuming it were accurate - how do you explain people who are successfully incorporating daily fasts, consuming large meals in relatively short time spans (sometimes as extreme as a single huge meal, although that wouldn't be my personal preference) meaning ~100g protein at a single siting yet consistently maintaining muscle/strength or in some cases (goal dependent), continuing to make gains? I personally know people running IF diets and seeing great results.

I agree with you on one point - that our bodies can only assimilate 'x' grams of protein per few hours (personally I think 40g is an arbitrary number, but at least it's an improvement from the preciously widely accepted [and parroted] 30g, but I digress). However, my current understanding is that additional protein isn't 'wasted'; rather, larger meals will simply take longer to digest. Our bodies will still use what they need/can, whether it be 40g every few hours or 200g within a few hours, we have to look in terms of longer time spans.

We have to look into our ancestry as well. Hunters (and even people much later in civilized history) weren't eating every few hours. Often times they were eating a single 'feast' type meal, once daily. If protein was being wasted, they'd be losing muscle, would be weak and frail, etc. Considering the amount of physical labor men had to perform (in the absence of machines, etc), it's only logical to believe they we're relatively fit and while granted, it's doubtful they were purposely trying to build muscle for the sake of their physiques (like us), they needed to be strong and powerful just to perform daily tasks.

We have evolved as very efficient energy storage machines, not meant to perpetually underfeed every few hours with just enough protein to squeak by. Just my .02, sorry if this is a hijack.

[basketballfan22]

I respectfully disagree with the latter. Assuming it were accurate - how do you explain people who are successfully incorporating daily fasts, consuming large meals in relatively short time spans (sometimes as extreme as a single huge meal, although that wouldn't be my personal preference) meaning ~100g protein at a single siting yet consistently maintaining muscle/strength or in some cases (goal dependent), continuing to make gains? I personally know people running IF diets and seeing great results.

I agree with you on one point - that our bodies can only assimilate 'x' grams of protein per few hours (personally I think 40g is an arbitrary number, but at least it's an improvement from the preciously widely accepted [and parroted] 30g, but I digress). However, my current understanding is that additional protein isn't 'wasted'; rather, larger meals will simply take longer to digest. Our bodies will still use what they need/can, whether it be 40g every few hours or 200g within a few hours, we have to look in terms of longer time spans.

We have to look into our ancestry as well. Hunters (and even people much later in civilized history) weren't eating every few hours. Often times they were eating a single 'feast' type meal, once daily. If protein was being wasted, they'd be losing muscle, would be weak and frail, etc. Considering the amount of physical labor men had to perform (in the absence of machines, etc), it's only logical to believe they we're relatively fit and while granted, it's doubtful they were purposely trying to build muscle for the sake of their physiques (like us), they needed to be strong and powerful just to perform daily tasks.

We have evolved as very efficient energy storage machines, not meant to perpetually underfeed every few hours with just enough protein to squeak by. Just my .02, sorry if this is a hijack.

As far as ancient people are concerned, there is far more evidence that suggests we didn't eat that much meat, especially compared to how much modern day humans consume (at least for us fat Americans). While they had feasts, they weren't that common; and when they did have them, it was for special occasions. Even during these feasts, I am sure they weren't eating 400 grams of protein. Too much protein is hard on the body. I understand when one needs to consume a lot of Calories (I am eating 4500-4700), that he/she doesn't want to have so much of it come from carbs or fats, but I think this is where vanity takes a priority over overall health. I am not saying one will die if they eat so much protein, but it certainly is not the most ideal diet from an overall health standpoint.

[austinite]

As far as ancient people are concerned, there is far more evidence that suggests we didn't eat that much meat, especially compared to how much modern day humans consume (at least for us fat Americans). While they had feasts, they weren't that common; and when they did have them, it was for special occasions. Even during these feasts, I am sure they weren't eating 400 grams of protein. Too much protein is hard on the body. I understand when one needs to consume a lot of Calories (I am eating 4500-4700), that he/she doesn't want to have so much of it come from carbs or fats, but I think this is where vanity takes a priority over overall health. I am not saying one will die if they eat so much protein, but it certainly is not the most ideal diet from an overall health standpoint.

Hey speak for yourself, dingdong. 11.98% here

[austinite]

Eating a ton of protein in one sitting just sucks. Seriously puts me in a coma. And overeating protein regularly is certainly unhealthy, we have metabolic panels that prove this today.

[gbrice75]

As far as ancient people are concerned, there is far more evidence that suggests we didn't eat that much meat, especially compared to how much modern day humans consume (at least for us fat Americans). While they had feasts, they weren't that common; and when they did have them, it was for special occasions. Even during these feasts, I am sure they weren't eating 400 grams of protein. Too much protein is hard on the body. I understand when one needs to consume a lot of Calories (I am eating 4500-4700), that he/she doesn't want to have so much of it come from carbs or fats, but I think this is where vanity takes a priority over overall health. I am not saying one will die if they eat so much protein, but it certainly is not the most ideal diet from an overall health standpoint.

Unlike most people on this board (and in most bodybuilding circles), I'm a proponent of lower protein intake than what's widely accepted and preached. 200g/day - regardless of being consumed over the course of a day or within a 6-8 hour span - isn't an inordinate amount. Further, nobody said anything about the source being meat. People who are consuming 400+ grams of protein daily are... idiots IMO. These are usually the same people who fail to make gains despite insane caloric/protein intake and wonder why.

My point about our ancestors had less to do with the frequency of their 'feasts' (used for lack of a better term) and more to do with the fact that they didn't spend all day 'grazing' (which several small meals/day essentially is); they wouldn't have had time to stop for a protein shake every 2.34343543 hours lest they go catabolic. Our bodies are complex and will adapt to work efficiently with whatever we throw at them.

I tend to stay away from making comparisons between humans and animals as I do understand our metabolic processes and systems in general are vastly different, but there is a similarity in that we as well as some animals have evolved to eat when food is available, and store for when it isn't. A lion consumes pounds and pounds of meat and may not eat again for a week. I have yet to see a scrawny lion.

Again, my only contention is with the idea that what isn't assimilated with a few hours of consumption is wasted. I really don't care when people eat or how often. Honestly, I think it makes MUCH less of a difference, if any at all, than what people constantly worry about.

[krugerr]

1 to 1.5 grams per LBM is plenty. There's not many people on earth that actually need and utilize 400mg of protein.

400mg a day you say

[austinite]

400mg a day you say

In reference to my original example of a 200lb man eating 2gr per lb.

[Back In Black]

In reference to my original example of a 200lb man eating 2gr per lb.

Ha ha, re-read it buddy, you're too used to working in 'supplement' measurements

[austinite]

Ha ha, re-read it buddy, you're too used to working in 'supplement' measurements

OMG. Just realized it's in mg.

Doh!

[getfit28]

Damn, so here I thought I had my diet down pack but I don't. Please help me out brothers.. I weight 190lbs with about 15-16% bf... how much cals, protein, carbs and fats should I be consuming daily?.. I was now thinking more like 3400 cals, 160-190 protein, 380 carbs and 40 fats, how does this look?... if it helps any I work from home and o sit on my computer all day except when o go to the gym for 1.5-2hrs... I do hit it hard and sweat like crazy.. I'm also currently running test & deca...

[getfit28]

Damn, so here I thought I had my diet down pack but I don't. Please help me out brothers.. I weight 190lbs with about 15-16% bf... how much cals, protein, carbs and fats should I be consuming daily?.. I was now thinking more like 3400 cals, 160-190 protein, 380 carbs and 40 fats, how does this look?... if it helps any I work from home and o sit on my computer all day except when o go to the gym for 1.5-2hrs... I do hit it hard and sweat like crazy.. I'm also currently running test & deca...

Bump

[getfit28]

Bump

Bump, can someone tell me if I'm on the right track with my #'s or point me to the right direction? Thank you

[Back In Black]

Mate 2 bumps in 2 hours is more likely to get people's backs up than them come rushing in to help. It's daytime, people work, have families and lives.

Be patient and maybe read some stickies while you wait.

Oh, and unless we know your goals then nobody can help.

[getfit28]

K, I did some more research and figured out my #'s.. based off my current stats (190lbs, 16 bf, 5.8 ht) I need to weight 175lbs to be 9% bf.... meaning 262 protein, 350 carbs but not so sure of calories.. I'm thinking 2800???

[Back In Black]

I think your TDEE is close to 2400cals plus your gym activity. That's on the basis that you don't have a particularly active job.

How many times a week do you lift/cardio and for how long?

[getfit28]

I think your TDEE is close to 2400cals plus your gym activity. That's on the basis that you don't have a particularly active job.

How many times a week do you lift/cardio and for how long?

Thanks bro for helping out.. I go to the gym 6x a week. And every Sunday I try to jog for 6 miles ... do my other #'s look good? I'm consuming the protein and carbs off the new weight goal which is 175, is that right?.. need help in figuring v out the cals

[Back In Black]

I'd start at 2400cals and see what results you get from that in the first few weeks.

Pro 240g
Carbs 230g
Fat 50-60g

I've allowed 1.5g protein per lb of LBM. Fats are about 20% of the total and I wouldn't go lower than 50g, the rest is just made up from carbs. Sound ok?

[MuscleInk]

I'd start at 2400cals and see what results you get from that in the first few weeks.

Pro 240g
Carbs 230g
Fat 50-60g

I've allowed 1.5g protein per lb of LBM. Fats are about 20% of the total and I wouldn't go lower than 50g, the rest is just made up from carbs. Sound ok?

^^^This seems accurate. When I cut though I drop my carbs well below this but the above plan is solid based on the number OP provided.

[getfit28]

I'd start at 2400cals and see what results you get from that in the first few weeks.

Pro 240g
Carbs 230g
Fat 50-60g

I've allowed 1.5g protein per lb of LBM. Fats are about 20% of the total and I wouldn't go lower than 50g, the rest is just made up from carbs. Sound ok?

I kept getting different figures for my BMR cal intake. The more I'd search the net the more confusing it got... so these will be my #'s
2759 daily cal broken into
30% protein, 50% carbs and 20% fats

So I will break my meals in to 6 meals a day= 206g of protein, 344g of carbs and 61g of fats....... please feel free to comment.. thanks

[Back In Black]

LBM multiplied by 15 will give the best calculated TDEE for most people. I then added your activity.

Your plan has too many calories if you intend to cut, IMHO.

[bass]

Lee Haney 8x mr. Olympia took 1 gram per pound of body weight! I agree, its way over rated!

[GirlyGymRat]

Lee Haney 8x mr. Olympia took 1 gram per pound of body weight! I agree, its way over rated!

Interesting..

[getfit28]

LBM multiplied by 15 will give the best calculated TDEE for most people. I then added your activity.

Your plan has too many calories if you intend to cut, IMHO.

K, I get it now... thanks big dawg.. I will use this figure for 4-6 weeks to see what happens.. so say I want to bulk later on all I have to do is add 500 more cals to this #, right? But of course the carbs, protein and fats change..

[Back In Black]

K, I get it now... thanks big dawg.. I will use this figure for 4-6 weeks to see what happens.. so say I want to bulk later on all I have to do is add 500 more cals to this #, right? But of course the carbs, protein and fats change..

Your numbers to bulk will depend on your new stats. It's not quite as simple as just adding 500cals it may be more, it may be less. Either way your protein and fats won't go up as much your carb intake.

[gbrice75]

Sorry for the iPhone auto corrects. Annoying as shit!

[getfit28]

K, back to me vets... I wish I had you alls knowledge.... 1 last question and you all can go at it... I have my #'s for intakes thanks to homeboy earlier... my #'s are 2400 cals, 240g protein, 230g carbs and 50-60g fats.. I'm trying to list foods to add this # but its hard to have them all equal what I want.. how much can I go over or below on each.. thank you guys..

[Back In Black]

K, back to me vets... I wish I had you alls knowledge.... 1 last question and you all can go at it... I have my #'s for intakes thanks to homeboy earlier... my #'s are 2400 cals, 240g protein, 230g carbs and 50-60g fats.. I'm trying to list foods to add this # but its hard to have them all equal what I want.. how much can I go over or below on each.. thank you guys..

It just takes a little time buddy and an excel spreadsheet. After a while you will have no problem formulating any plan you wish to implement. A little leeway is ok but I wouldn't go over on protein and whatever you may be short on that macro you can add to your carbs.

[Brett N]

For me, getting my numbers to fit was a pain in the butt at first. I basically use egg whites, chicken and rice as my staples. I used an app on my phone called myfitnesspal (free) and I acted like I was logging in for the day. I filled in what I thought was good for all my meals which was usually 6 oz chicken breast and 3oz brown rice. For dinner I switched to 5 oz red potato. Also, broccoli and other greens.

The fats were the hard part, I use a couple whole eggs and 3 Tablespoons of a natural peanut butter. Almonds work good and dont forget to count the fat in any fish oil you take.

Once I got this dialed in, I learned where I could substitute and still hit close to my numbers but also get variety. Sometimes ground turkey, very lean beef, or even a few oz of lean ham in my egg white omelette.

If you are not cutting, I would think it would be easier with the proteins though.

[getfit28]

Thank you all.... I will follow black in black diet.. you all are the best.

[Brett N]

I totally get what you are saying....but, our ancestors also didn't have any supplements, didn't care about building more muscle than they really needed for survival, and were considered middle age at around 22 years old.

The hunters of our ancestry were lean, mean, kill anything you can to eat machines. You'd have to think they were built more like a welterweight fighter than a bodybuilder. I wasn't there so I don't know for fact, just saying.

I do think that all the protein and the eating all the time is a lot of marketing hype. The only reason I eat several smaller meals is that it keeps me from feeling hungry which prevents me from eating the crap that I know isn't that good for me.

[gbrice75]

I do think that all the protein and the eating all the time is a lot of marketing hype.

Yep

The only reason I eat several smaller meals is that it keeps me from feeling hungry which prevents me from eating the crap that I know isn't that good for me.

Bingo. Eat this way because it fits your lifestyle, schedule, or helps you stay honest with regard to cheating and/or binge eating. Others choose to eat larger, less frequent meals for the exact same reasons. But, the idea that the only way one can possibly make gains is to eat several small meals throughout the day is preposterous. That, or the dozens of people I personally know doing the opposite and seeing great success are all freaks of nature.