Please review my cycle, Honest thoughts!

[Anonymus]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this website, I have been a member at Elite Fitness for a long time and also PHF however I thought I would come over to the dark side as I feel there is too much nonsense going on at Elite Fitness and you just don't get enough replies at PHF.

I am 25 I have cycled a few times before (have not currently done a cycle in over two years) and have been working out seriously for the last five + years, I however have only started training seriously again for the last six months due to some injuries and holidays that put me out of serious training for a year (I still got to the gym about 3-4 days a week)

I have my diet down pat, I have my training down pat, my stats are 6'3" and weigh in around 86kg (190 pounds for those of you who are metrically challenged) 9-10%bf I have a very ripped/ athletic figure however I want to get a little bigger and try not to put on too much bloat, if any.

I have started a cycle and I plan to run it as follows:

1-10 Andropen 550mg ew (275mg twice a week Mon & Thurs nights)

3-7 Winstrol 30mg ed (15mg before gym and before bed)

2-10 PES Erase (2-3 tabs a day)

10-15 PES Eras Pro & PES Anabeta from day after last pin till bottles empty

HCG 500ius twice a week 5, 7 & 9 (to keep the testes a little plump)

10-11 HCG 500ius eod

11-15 IGF-1 lr3 (working out dosage as there are a lot of mixed reviews)

1-15 Liver Guard & Fish Oil


I never like the idea of Nolva or Clomid so for a change I am going to see if I can recover without either of these, I have some Adex on hand also incase its needed, however from previous cycles I never have a problem with Gyno or anything of the likes.

***I am on my second week of Andropen, Winny to start next Monday***

Now I want your honest opinions, ready.. GO!

[Back In Black]

Honest opinion? Your diet isn't 'down pat'. Several cycles to get to your weight at that height? You should be easily be able to weigh more than that naturally.

You should run your AI not keep it on hand.

No PCT, is this serious?

You should really stop your cycle immediately and do some learning and some eating.

[KingJ243]

A few ideas/suggestions for your cycle...

1) You need a good PCT. You should be looking at running Nolvadex for 4 weeks at 20/20/20/20 + HCG (1-2 week blast, not sure on dosages). If you're PCT isn't good, you won't retain any of the gains you make on cycle.

2) Include some sort of cycle assist product for your organs (Organ Shield by Purus Labs is a good one). The inclusion of one will help alot with liver values, etc due to the Winstrol.

3) Drop the IGF-1. Save that for a more serious cycle. Messing with your insulin/GH levels is a serious business. You won't see the benefits from IGF-1 at this stage

4) Get your diet and training down pact. Regardless of what you are doing you will not grow if you aren't eating in caloric excess.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the "idea" of nolva or clomid. They are used to control estrogen rebound after you get off cycle while you restart you natural testosterone production with the HCG. HCG is the key the puzzle for your PCT, but without Nolva or Clomid, keeping all those gains you made is gonna be tough work.

Stay Heavy bro

[Anonymus]

A few ideas/suggestions for your cycle...

1) You need a good PCT. You should be looking at running Nolvadex for 4 weeks at 20/20/20/20 + HCG (1-2 week blast, not sure on dosages). If you're PCT isn't good, you won't retain any of the gains you make on cycle.

2) Include some sort of cycle assist product for your organs (Organ Shield by Purus Labs is a good one). The inclusion of one will help alot with liver values, etc due to the Winstrol.

3) Drop the IGF-1. Save that for a more serious cycle. Messing with your insulin/GH levels is a serious business. You won't see the benefits from IGF-1 at this stage

4) Get your diet and training down pact. Regardless of what you are doing you will not grow if you aren't eating in caloric excess.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the "idea" of nolva or clomid. They are used to control estrogen rebound after you get off cycle while you restart you natural testosterone production with the HCG. HCG is the key the puzzle for your PCT, but without Nolva or Clomid, keeping all those gains you made is gonna be tough work.

Stay Heavy bro

Hey Kingj243, just wanted to thank you for this input!

From running Nolva before I found it relatively tough keeping all the gains, I generally loose 2-3kg. The reason for IGF-1 is from what I experience with my friends using it and reviews online they seem to keep all their strength and their gains.

I could always chuck Nolva in with HCG and IGF-1 but this I havent heard of before, I just want something that keeps you looking good, shreds some of the water weight and keeps your strength and size in tact. thats where I want the IGF-1 to come into play.

[itsjayman02]

In addition to the above you need another 6 months consistent training behind you because your connective tissues will be weak.

I would stop this cycle and use the 6 months to research about
1. HCG
2. Ai
3. PCT

This stickie titled MY FIRST CYCLE from austinite will cover the topics above

[Anonymus]

Thank you everyone for your input, I actually just weighed myself (note I am only on my first week of this cycle and only running test atm so there would be no effect) and I actually weigh 86kg and this is natural weight not from a cycle (I have not ran a cycle in two years), and I have next to no body fat on me what so ever.

I have done a lot of research countless hours for many years and have more than my fair share of friends who are professional body builders, I can understand from above that you must think I am a noob, all be it I am not.

However I have had a few good friends who have ran a similar pct, trying to go away from Nolva and Clomid and they had a great PCT with low dosage of Sarms, HCG, IGF-1, and another compound that I don't want to run. They got their bloods, of which I looked through the results with them, they recovered in the exact same time as their Nolva PCT and yet they stayed exactly the same weight, didn't loose a thing, one of my mates actually gained 2kg from this PCT.

I have ran Nolva PCT & Clomid PCT (I have not done several cycles as back in black stated, I have ran three, hence why I said a 'few', not sure where several came from) and my last cycle was over two years ago (My mistake, I just realised I never mentioned that in my original post)

So, please rather than telling me to stop this cycle, of which I am not going to do, and I really want to steer clear of Nolva and Clomid, I am in the belief that these are out dated PCT. (I am sure someone will bite my ass for saying that) give me some suggestions on how to make this cycle better!

(please not that I just done a quick google search and there are so many numerous people that have ran this as PCT and said it is the best PCT that they have ever done! so its not just my mates that feel this way, its people all over the world)

[P0RK CH0P]

Just because your buds "recovered" just fine without a proper PCT doesn't mean you will, everybody has different reactions.

If you want suggestions on how to make your cycle better.

1. Run an AI on cycle. Not jut have it on hand.
2. Run HCG on cycle. Not after.
3. Use proper PCT drugs.

[Anonymus]

Just because your buds "recovered" just fine without a proper PCT doesn't mean you will, everybody has different reactions.

If you want suggestions on how to make your cycle better.

1. Run an AI on cycle. Not jut have it on hand.
2. Run HCG on cycle. Not after.
3. Use proper PCT drgs.

Thanks mate, but as far as an AI goes PES Erase is pretty good at its job, I have used it before and worked just fine, kept my bloods in a stable range.

I am running HCG during on weeks 5, 7 & 9 as you will see above, this is to skip atrophy. Then I am just doing the short blast which seems to be a favourite with a lot of people.

I have never suffered from Gyno, or any sides for that matter, I can always get Nolva if I feel need it. also I beg to differ your use of the term 'proper' as there is no such thing as a 'proper' PCT there is just preferred variants of PCT. Each as beneficial in their own ways which comes down to users personal experiences and opinions.

However none the less I thank you for your input and appreciate your opinion!

PES Erase is a suicidal AI, Actually works fairly well from what I have been able to research.

Saw some guys bloodwork on 1g of test per week, 3 caps of Erase a day, and E2 was at 31 (7.6-42.6 normal range)

Thanks for this mate, some actual stats, I also have had positive experiences with PES Erase on previous cycles.

However I have access to Arimidex if it gets bad (never had bad sides before).

[ma_fighter]

PES Erase is a suicidal AI, Actually works fairly well from what I have been able to research.

Saw some guys bloodwork on 1g of test per week, 3 caps of Erase a day, and E2 was at 31 (7.6-42.6 normal range)

[redz]

Dude run a real pct. 30mg is very low dose for winstrol.

[Anonymus]

Dude run a real pct. 30mg is very low dose for winstrol.

Thanks mate, Like the input, I however am willing to try a new way for PCT to see how things go.

I more so want the winny to create more free test circulating around rather than use the winny for maximum gains, they say 20mg a week is perfect for freeing up a lot of test but I am going to go with 30mg, I will probably bump it to 45mg in the second week then back to 30mg.

[redz]

Theres a ton of gimmick products out there with bogus claims. I wouldnt risk my recovery like that.

[AlphaMike]

Most of the issues have already been addressed so I'll just say this: Try nolva/clomid for pct along with the IGF. I think your recovery will be smoother and faster this way. Use the hcg on cycle instead of for pct. You seem like the type that likes to experiment so if you haven't tried this particular route yet now would be a good time.

[Anonymus]

Most of the issues have already been addressed so I'll just say this: Try nolva/clomid for pct along with the IGF. I think your recovery will be smoother and faster this way. Use the hcg on cycle instead of for pct. You seem like the type that likes to experiment so if you haven't tried this particular route yet now would be a good time.

Hi AlphaMike,

Thank you for this input, I may try adding Nolva in PCT then along with the IGF-1 lr3. **Does anyone know if these two compounds will work well together??**

As for the HCG there are so many mixed reviews on usage, I was just going to do the one week blast of HCG straight after the last pin as that seemed most favourited by everybody along with some shots here and there throughout the cycle to you skip testicular atrophy along with some other benefits.

[Back In Black]

FYI, several is more than 2. How many do you think several is? More than a few?

You will keep your weight if your pct and diet is right.

So you are 86kgs not 83. You are still 6'3 tall. Too light (189lbs) in my opinion although I guess you are gonna do this regardless. Do us the honour of posting a pic so we can see what we are working with, I'd like to see your idea of 'next to no bodyfat'.

[Anonymus]

FYI, several is more than 2. How many do you think several is? More than a few?

You will keep your weight if your pct and diet is right.

So you are 86kgs not 83. You are still 6'3 tall. Too light (189lbs) in my opinion although I guess you are gonna do this regardless. Do us the honour of posting a pic so we can see what we are working with, I'd like to see your idea of 'next to no bodyfat'.

Haha love the riddle..

[Anonymus]

I generally get told I look heavier than I am, can't judge too much in that photo (I don't exactly have any others) but because of my height and because I am relatively lean I look more like 90kg+

[AlphaMike]

Pretty good base. Your diet will be more important now since you want to bulk as cleanly as possible

[ma_fighter]

Hey

*1-3 caps of PES Erase during cycle should be enough to combat conversion of Test into Estrogen, start with 1 and go up if you bloat.

*Run the hCG throughout the cycle, but not during PCT. A big blast of hCG can actually do more harm than good!

*Do a proper PCT, it's just better to do so than to run the risk of not doing so.

*IGF1/Nolva: I see no reason whatsoever why these would not work together.

*DIET is going to be the key here, make SURE you eat enough kcals and protein. You NEED to start counting, if you arent already doing so.

You look good in the pic, ripped but not skinny. However, being ripped does not necessarily mean you know how to eat, you could simply be undereating kcals, or it could just be your genetics.

Proper nutrition is going to be the single most important thing here. You can use all the AAS in the world, and train your arse off, but without food you will not grow, or at least not grow to your full potential.

Allow SOME fatgain during this bulk, and during PCT. But keep it within reason, and you'll be golden.

/Maf

[Anonymus]

Pretty good base. Your diet will be more important now since you want to bulk as cleanly as possible

Thank you AlphaMike, glad to you believe I have a half decent base.

Hey

*1-3 caps of PES Erase during cycle should be enough to combat conversion of Test into Estrogen, start with 1 and go up if you bloat.

*Run the hCG throughout the cycle, but not during PCT. A big blast of hCG can actually do more harm than good!

*Do a proper PCT, it's just better to do so than to run the risk of not doing so.

*IGF1/Nolva: I see no reason whatsoever why these would not work together.

*DIET is going to be the key here, make SURE you eat enough kcals and protein. You NEED to start counting, if you arent already doing so.

You look good in the pic, ripped but not skinny. However, being ripped does not necessarily mean you know how to eat, you could simply be undereating kcals, or it could just be your genetics.

Proper nutrition is going to be the single most important thing here. You can use all the AAS in the world, and train your arse off, but without food you will not grow, or at least not grow to your full potential.

Allow SOME fatgain during this bulk, and during PCT. But keep it within reason, and you'll be golden.

/Maf

Hey MaF,

Thanks for this mate, loving the response!

I believe I am going to be running Nolva and IGF-1 together in PCT which I am assuming will allow me to keep more gains and recover properly.

I will probably not run the blast of HCG as this is not exactly a full run cycle, just 10 weeks of Test and Winny so I will probably (when I can find some to get a hold off, my only missing compound to this cycle) run it throughout a little bit every week just to keep the testies a bit plump, then maybe a little bit in first week of PCT while the Test drains out of my system and the Nolva/ IGF-1 help bring me back to normal functioning status.

Diet is counted for every single thing I eat, I am considering chucking in a cheat day once every two weeks as I eat to a very strict schedule, but time will tell how I go, depends if this Test bloats me too much or not.

The only place my body seems to store fat is on my jaw line which drives me absolutely crazy, still trying to figure out on how I can demolish this to having a chiseled jaw line like I had back in the day. but I don't think that will be able to happen until I have finished this cycle and my PCT

[ma_fighter]

You're welcome mate!

Yeah, allow *some* fat, or your gains will likely suffer. If you already got your diet down, then shedding that fat after you're done will not be an issue

What's your daily kcals/protein at right now?

/MaF

[Anonymus]

You're welcome mate!

Yeah, allow *some* fat, or your gains will likely suffer. If you already got your diet down, then shedding that fat after you're done will not be an issue

What's your daily kcals/protein at right now?

/MaF

This is an old copy on my work computer, I have updated it on my personal computer to be exact but it is pretty much well the same. I have just decreased Fats and Carbs. I also Gym first thing in the Morning now instead of in the afternoon so its changed a little around that but you get a good picture as the meals themselves haven't changed hardly at all from my custom meal plan below.

Protein Shake (Shake 1) 7.15am
Protein 1 scoop
Carbs 1 scoop
Creatine 1 tsp
Milk 150ml
Total 395cal – 41gp – 5gf – 46gc

WORK OUT 7.45-8.45am

Morning Shake (Breakfast 1) 9.30am
Crushed Oats 100g
Semolina 50g
Protein 1 ½ scoop
Milk 300ml
Creatine 1 tsp
Caramel 15ml
Total 952cal – 67gp – 21gf – 115gc

Weetbix (breakfast 2) 10.30am
Weetbix x 6
Milk 200ml
Raw Sugar 1tsp
Total 447cal – 19gp – 9gf – 72gc

Nice n Natural Nut Bar (Snack) 11.30am
Nut Bar 32g
Total 160cal – 5.5gp – 9.9gf – 11.6gc

Tuna Rice (Lunch) 12.30pm
Egg Rice 250g
Tuna 95g
Veggies 200g
Total 681cal – 58gp – 9gf – 90gc

Cottage Cheese & Crackers (Snack) 2.00pm
Cottage Cheese 250g
Crackers 15g
Total 284cal – 29gp – 7gf – 22gc

Protein Shake (Shake 2) 3.00pm
Protein 1 scoop
Carbs 1 scoop
Creatine 1 tsp
Milk 150ml
Total 395cal – 41gp – 5gf – 46gc

Turkey Pecs (Dinner)7.30pm
Turkey ?g
Sweet Potato ?g
Veggies ?g
Fibre Pasta ?g
Pasta Sauce ?ml
Est. Total 650 cal – 60gp – 7gf – 75gc

Pre Bed Protein Shake (Shake 3) 9.30pm
Protein 1 scoop
Carbs 1 scoop
Creatine 1 tsp
Milk 150ml
Total 395cal – 41gp – 5gf – 46gc

GRAND TOTAL: 4359 CAL – 361GP – 78GF – 513GC

[ma_fighter]

Looks to be a fair bit of sugars in there, but post that stuff in the nutrition section for proper critique. Them guys over there are wizards!

Almost 4.4k kcals, and you're that lean?! Guessing you're a natural Ecto?

[Anonymus]

Looks to be a fair bit of sugars in there, but post that stuff in the nutrition section for proper critique. Them guys over there are wizards!

Almost 4.4k kcals, and you're that lean?! Guessing you're a natural Ecto?

Yeah my body burns up food like there is no tomorrow, my diet used to be 3.5k cals and I just wasnt growing at all, so I up'ed it to 4.3k cals and now im growing quite nicely

not going to lie I do skip the cottage cheese and crackers quite often as I will be in meetings or out of the office. I probably realistically on eat that twice a week.

[Anonymus]

For those of you who care, here is my cycle that I have planned out, currently running mid week 6

CYCLE

1- 5 SARMS Ostarine 25mg ed

3-13 Andropen 550mg ew (275mg twice a week Mon & Thurs nights)

5-6 Winstrol 30mg ed (15mg before gym and before bed)

6-7 Winstrol 45mg ed (15mg before gym, after lunch & before bed)

7-8 Winstrol 60mg ed (30mg before gym, 15mg after lunch & before bed)

8-9 Winstrol 45mg ed (15mg before gym, after lunch & before bed)

4-6 PES Erase (2 tabs a day)

9-11 IGF-1 lr3 40mcg ed

9-13 PES Erase (2 tabs a day)

8, 10, 12 HCG 500ius twice a week (to keep the testes a little plump)

13-14 HCG 500ius e3d

14-18 PES Eras Pro & PES Anabeta

13-15 SARMS Ostarine 25mg ed

15- 16 SARMS Ostarine 12.5mg ed

13-17 IGF-1 lr3 40mcg ed

15-18 Nolvadex 20mg ed (may reduce to 10mg ed week 18)

1-18 Liver Guard & Fish Oil