6 months in on TRT- Going for RESTART!

[VTX1800]

Alright fellas, I'm up for my 6 month blood work come next Tuesday. I'm going to speak to my TRT Dr about my interest in trying for a restart. I know I jumped the gun, had a test level of 50 and no LH or FSH values so doc had me on 600iu twice a week of hcg, 200mg/ml of cyp per week divided into 2 shots, anastrozole 2x per week .5mgs. And clomid 25mg daily.

I'm looking into trying hcg for a few weeks then throwing in the clomid And slowly tapper off. Really depends on what my doc thinks.
Just wondering if anyone has any tips or tricks I could use. I don't know much about using serms, nolvadex or anastrozole to keep e2 down while on high levels of hcg and clomid. I do understand that there are a shit pot full of info regarding this subject matter. Just wanted to see what your all .2 cents worth. Thanks guys

[Trevtrev]

You want to restart and get back to a test level of 50? Why?

[Megalodon6]

You want to restart and get back to a test level of 50? Why?

Can't speak for him but I think he's hoping it'll bring back to normal levels

[Beethoven]

You can try but you will set yourself back. My new Doc tried a restart with me and it didn't work. Now I had start all over again. If you don't mind that, go for it.

[VTX1800]

You want to restart and get back to a test level of 50? Why?

Obviously u don't know what a restart is.

[VTX1800]

I can't see any reason why I shouldn't try it. Worst case my natural t level stay suppressed or I'm primary hypo. Best case...it works and I don't have to spend thousands of dollars each year pinning myself with exogenous testosterone.

[Trevtrev]

Obviously u don't know what a restart is.

I do know what a restart is, but maybe 50 is high on whatever reference range you are using (you didn't give one). On the Labcorp range 50 is pathetic, at least for serum T levels.

[AD]

total T of 50 sounds really bad. but if your LH and FSH were also rock bottom, then its likely that you're not primary. which means that your T will likely rise when you go on clomid. the thing is, a fair number of people cannot maintain a normal T level once they go off clomid. it may eventually be a longterm med.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ogonadism.html

[VTX1800]

I do know what a restart is, but maybe 50 is high on whatever reference range you are using (you didn't give one). On the Labcorp range 50 is pathetic, at least for serum T levels.

I used aas 4 or 5 years ago and wasn't very smart about it. Started noticing I was becoming more and more lethargic so I ran tests. LH was 0.7 FSH 0.4 e2 was 15. My body was suppressed from my aas use and never recovered. I jumped the gun, I know that. I should have tried clomid and hcg first but I had the opportunity to get a script of cypionate so I said F it. It's more trouble than it's worth now.
Plan on going for a restart next week. Like I stated earlier, if my natty test levels drop off after my clomid and hcg restart then I know I will have to pin for the next 50 years.

[VTX1800]

I do know what a restart is, but maybe 50 is high on whatever reference range you are using (you didn't give one). On the Labcorp range 50 is pathetic, at least for serum T levels.

Have you EVER seen a reference range showing that 50 is high??? Regardless of the reference range (which vary due to your age) 50 is and will always be a 50. I'm running 1148 now. Again...no matter what reference range you choose to look at, 1148 is 1148. My doc loves my level above 1100 but no more than 1200. And yes I use labcorp. Even with a 50 t level I was still in the gym, still gaining lean muscle and lifts kept improving. I'm wondering if my bloo test maybe got screwed up. I really should have taken another blood work test just to be sure but my doc said here...inject this, that and take this and ohh yeah this too. Lol being in the weight room since I was 14
I wasn't about to turn down my own script of cyp,hcg,clomid and anastrozole. I made a mistake...time to move on, past will always be the past. Gotta try a restart so I will truly know.

[VTX1800]

You can try but you will set yourself back. My new Doc tried a restart with me and it didn't work. Now I had start all over again. If you don't mind that, go for it.

What did your restart consist of? How many weeks? Hcg and clomid with serms?

[xcraider37]

Have you EVER seen a reference range showing that 50 is high??? Regardless of the reference range (which vary due to your age) 50 is and will always be a 50. I'm running 1148 now. Again...no matter what reference range you choose to look at, 1148 is 1148. My doc loves my level above 1100 but no more than 1200. And yes I use labcorp. Even with a 50 t level I was still in the gym, still gaining lean muscle and lifts kept improving. I'm wondering if my bloo test maybe got screwed up. I really should have taken another blood work test just to be sure but my doc said here...inject this, that and take this and ohh yeah this too. Lol being in the weight room since I was 14
I wasn't about to turn down my own script of cyp,hcg,clomid and anastrozole. I made a mistake...time to move on, past will always be the past. Gotta try a restart so I will truly know.

Seems you have your mind made up do the restart and see what happens. Might have helped some of your detractors if you would have mentioned your AAS use from the start.

[Low Testosterone]

For a guy in his early to mid-20's, a restart has about a 50/50 chance of working, maybe a little less. For a guy over 30, the odds are much lower. Personally, I've never seen a man over 30 be successful with a restart long term or rather successful to where his testosterone is anywhere near optimal. Higher than it was? Sure, but far from optimal. Anyway, might be worth a shot, never hurts to try, just understand there's no guarantee with this type of thing.

[Megalodon6]

For a guy in his early to mid-20's, a restart has about a 50/50 chance of working, maybe a little less. For a guy over 30, the odds are much lower. Personally, I've never seen a man over 30 be successful with a restart long term or rather successful to where his testosterone is anywhere near optimal. Higher than it was? Sure, but far from optimal. Anyway, might be worth a shot, never hurts to try, just understand there's no guarantee with this type of thing.

Just hcg? Or hcg and clomid

[bass]

Obviously u don't know what a restart is.

I don't think I know either, can you please tell us what restarts means to you?

[dreadnok89]

Aren't hcg and chlomid pointless together? And on all that stuff your only running at 1100?

[dreadnok89]

And why even take anastrolze if you don't know what your estrogen is doing?

[VTX1800]

Estrogen is at 23
Just left docs, she said Its unlikely and refered me to endo bc my LH and FSH are 0.7 but my sperm ct is above avg. FSH and LH were same as they t now even before starting cyp or anadrol. She wants me to get a pituitary MRI. Still keeping me on protocol until I see endo

[dreadnok89]

Estrogen is at 23
Just left docs, she said Its unlikely and refered me to endo bc my LH and FSH are 0.7 but my sperm ct is above avg. FSH and LH were same as they t now even before starting cyp or anadrol. She wants me to get a pituitary MRI. Still keeping me on protocol until I see endo

That's good right? You feel fine? Did you have anxiety and panic attacks with 50 total t?

[VTX1800]

I've battled anxiety disorder since I was 17, I'm 30 now. Was on xAnax for 8 years, been off it for 3 years. So no, no more noticeable anxiety when t was at 50. Just sluggish and lethargic. Would run straight to couch after my 8 hr work day.
Yes, I do feel good. Just worried about this MRI. Doc can't quite figure out why LH and FSH are 0.5 but sperm count was above average. K
Really would love to hear some more input regarding pituitary rumors. Gotta do some research today. So restart is out of
The question at this point.
Maybe LH and FSH values point Towards being primary hypogonadism.

[VTX1800]

I will post complete BW panels later today. I've posted the
In previous threAds. I will post them here.

[VTX1800]

My BW prior to TRT...I was feeling like a lazy worthless piece of ass so I went to see Doc and these are the panels he choose to run.

VTX1800
Associate Member


-CBC with dif platelet
WBC 6.2 (4.0-10.5x10e3/uL)
Rbc 4.66 (4.14-5.80x10e6/uL)
Hemoglobin 13.6 (12.6-17.7 g/dl)
Hematocrit 40.1. (37.5-51.0%)
Mcv 86(79-97fl)
Mch 29.2 (26.6-33.0 pg)
Mchc 33.9(31.5-35.7 g/dl)
Neutrophils 52 (40-74%)
Lymphs 36 (14-46%)
Monocytes 9 (4-13%)
Eos 2 (0-7%)
Basos 1 (0-3%)
Platelets 285 (140-415x10e3/uL)
Neuttophils (absolute) 3.2 (1.8-7.8 x 10e3/uL
Lymphs absolute 2.2 (0.7-4.5x10e3/uL
Monocytes absolute 0.6(0.1-1.0 ". "
EOs absolute 0.1 (0.0-0.4 x10e3/uL)
Baso absolute 0.1 (0.0-0.2x10e3/uL)
Rdw 13.7 (12.3-15.4%)

-test,free,total
Testosterone serum 50(348-1197 ng/dl) L
Free testosterone (direct) 1.4 (9.3-26.5 pg/ml)L

-TSH + free t4
TSH 2.100 (0.450-4.500 uiu/ml)
T4,free direct 1.08

Lipid panel
Cholesterol 156 (100-199mg/dl)
Triglycerides 80 (0-149 mg/dl)
Hdl cholesterol 55 (>39mg/dl)
VLDL cholesterol cal 16 (5-40 mg/dl)
LDL cholesterol calc 85 (0-99 mg/dl)

E2 sensitive 13.4 (7.6-42.6)
LH 0.5 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 0.7 (1.5-12.4)
Prolactin 17.3 (4.0-15.2)

6 weeks into TRT small panel BW was done
Test 1,148 (348-1197 ng/dl) L was 50
Free T 21.4(9.3-26.5) was 1.4
E 23.8.
LH-0.2
FSH 0.2.

[VTX1800]

I have my appointment with an Endo out of Cumming GA next Friday. Will be going in for a pituitary MRI referred by my PCP (TRT Dr.) hoping to find the root cause of my low T. Possible that my dumb aas use in mid 20's has screwed up my pituitary? Maybe a tumor, cancer ? Guess I will find out.

[bass]

no matter what the outcome is you be better off staying on TRT, but the protocol your doc put you on can be toned down a little, 200mgs ew is probably too much for you. but definitely you have a pituitary issues. keep us posted.

[VTX1800]

Will do, I agree that 200 is a bit much. I dropped down to 125 a week (2 weeks ago) already noticed decreased water weight. I have a feeling your right about staying on TRT and the pituitary issue. I was hoping a restart would do the trick but I've turned my back on that commitment.

[VTX1800]

Update: met with endo who wants me off all TRT meds except Hcg...he wants me on 2000iu Hcg twice a week. (Having hard time gettin script filled without paying $$$$) he did a full panel blood work, put me on 5mg cialis once daily and scheduled my mri for this Tuesday at 4:45pm. I'm not real big on coming off cyp and taking 4000iu with out anastrozole. (I still have plenty, prob will take twice a week so my e2 doesn't go crazy) overAll the doc seemed like he knew his stuff regarding the pituitary but I may get my MRI and depending on results find a well know. Endo or of MRI is negative I'm going back on TRT. But I'm pretty damn sure the root cause of my extreme low t is my pituitary gland.
Going to check with all custom compounding pharms in my area Tom. I can get 10,000 IU for $110 at cvs or online us fertility pharmacy. But that's $110 for only 2 1/2 weeks...

[phaedo]

What's your endocrinologist's reasoning for dropping testosterone cypionate and starting hCG monotherapy?

[VTX1800]

Fertility mainly,and he wants to see where my BW is at. Can't say I agree.

[VTX1800]

Just got my 16,000 units of Hcg filled at local compounding pharm for $100 and noticed this endo wrote IM for the Hcg. Not sure if it's due to the fact that I'm taking 2,000iu per injection or he's just a firm believer in IM over subq. I've read several studies regarding IM vs SubQ and it looks like a toss up. Ready to get mri results and move on. NO libido and fatigue sure is starting to get old.

[dreadnok89]

No chlomid?

[VTX1800]

No chlomid?

Dr wants to wait and see how my BW looks. I have a stock pile of clomid though.

One thing I've noticed is after taking the g of cialis since Friday I have extreme pain in lower back,butt cheeks and runs down my thigh intoy calf. It's awful especially when I wake up and when I lay Down. May have to back off this med for the time being. I read a lot about it online apparently I fall into the 5-7% category who experience these sides.

[dreadnok89]

Dr wants to wait and see how my BW looks. I have a stock pile of clomid though.

One thing I've noticed is after taking the g of cialis since Friday I have extreme pain in lower back,butt cheeks and runs down my thigh intoy calf. It's awful especially when I wake up and when I lay Downd. May have to back off this med for the time being. I read a lot about it online apparently I fall into the 5-7% category who experience these sides.

Could be sciatic nerve? I don't why these docs need to see blood work when your turned off.

[no0ne23]

How long till you get results of the MRI? Good luck with it!

Side note... I made an appt with your TRT doc in early Jan. Looking forward to making the jump from my current one -- who forces me to come in for injections so they can milk insurance.

[VTX1800]

How long till you get results of the MRI? Good luck with it!

Side note... I made an appt with your TRT doc in early Jan. Looking forward to making the jump from my current one -- who forces me to come in for injections so they can milk insurance.

She will take good care of you. From what I've noticed she primarily runs 200mg/ml a week of cyp, Hcg (I stressed fertility issues,so she put me on 600iu twice a week) and the anastrozole .5mgs 2-3 times depending on your estrogen level. She is a very good doc, just an FYI she will try to sell u all those natur herb remedie stuff that she sells in her office. Don't feel obligated to buy that stuff. She knows a great deal about TRT and a healthy diet.

I found another place to do my MRI which saved me nearly $400 due to my deductible of $750 which I've only paid $53 towards. Sooo my MRI is today at 4pm. Should be getting my blood work back today or tomorrow but I've encountered several issues with this endo and his office has horrible customer service skills. For example my Hcg script was written last Friday, they didn't even call it in until yesterday evening. I called Monday, Tuesday and finally Wednesday I had to pull out the rude stick over the phone and 20 minutes after the call was made the pharmacy called with billing info.
I'm generally a nice easy
Going guy but damn...never in my life have I waited more than 3 days for a doctors office to call in a prescription. On top of that, he pulled me off my TRT protocol so I've had to deal with anxiety, depression, lethargy, and bad acne. I couldn't take it anymore and got back on my test bc I didn't know how long it would take for my Hcg to arrive. Going to try the 2,000 IU twice a week and I'm hoping that will reduce roller coaster ride.
If all goes well with my MRI and be then I'm planning on continuing my TRT with dr. S. But I've got a feeling that I do have a pituitary issue, all signs point in that direction.
Will let U guys know as soon as I get results.

[VTX1800]

Could be sciatic nerve? I don't why these docs need to see blood work when your turned off.

Because the endo is trying to find the root
Cause of my low t which very well may be pituitary related. My prolactin has been high and LH/FSH have been mom existent even prior to starting TRT.

[VTX1800]

MRI complete...I have the DVD with all images, I wish I knew what to look for on pituitary so I don't have to wait until the 30th to get answers.

[jomamma007]

hmm good luck bud, im 22 about to start a restart again!

[VTX1800]

Received MRI and BW results this morning from this new endo. I'm definitely not a fan of this doc and won't be returning to see him. He wants me to stay on 2000IU twice a week as a restart, he pulled me off all meds cold turkey which sent me into a spiral of mixed emotions, depression, acne, anxiety and sleep disturbances. As stated in my previous posts, I went back to my former protocol 4 days after this blood work was taken. It had been 3 weeks since last hcg shot and 2 weeks since my last test shot before the blood draw on Dec. 17th.
The doc wouldn't include estrogen to be checked on bw or dhea, you would think someone prescribing 4000IU PER WEEK would want to have a baseline estrogen level. ??
MRI results showed no tumor on pituitary, but does show Small pineal cyst, it measurese approximately 5.6mm in length x 4.2 mm in AP dimension. It does not deform the tectal plate.
ALSO report found: Nasal septum is deviated to the left of the midline. There is a small fluid-like area seen to the left of the midline along the nasopharyngeal soft tissues measuring about 5mm most likely suggestive of a small Thornwaldt cyst. Nasopharyngeal soft tissues are not prominent. There is partial ossification of the mastoild air cells.
Endo (that I will never see again) refereed me to a neurological surgeon to have MRI and cysts thoroughly examined. Below is my BW, again I have been off 150mg/ml per week and 1200IU hcg per week for over 2 weeks.

Lab Corp
Testost., Bio w/SHBG
Test Serum (TOTAL) 810
Bioavailable Test 449 (128-430)
Bioavailable Test % 55.4
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 33.3 (16.5-55.9)
Testost., Free MS/Dialysis
% Free Test. (Dialysis) 1.5%(1.5-3.2)
Free Test., Serum 122 (52-280)
Cortisol, Serum LCMS Endo Sci
Cortisul, serum LCMS 2.7 (8.0-19)8am
IGF-1
161 (155-432) Mean=289
Prolactin, Serum (ICMA) 21 (3-18)
FSH 0.2 (1.5-12.4)
LH 0.2 (1.7-8.6)
TSH 1.310 (0.450-4.500)
T4 Free Direct 1.08 (0.82-1.77)
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.5 (0.0-4.0)
Vitamin B12 1721 (211-946)

[phaedo]

To recklessly wager from your elevated prolactin and MRI results, I would presume your cyst *may* be at fault for low testosterone, though Thornwaldt cysts are typically asymptomatic. Please update us on the follow-on with the neurosurgeon. If warranted, these benign masses are usually removed via a transnasal approach; don't worry! :-)

I'd also be curious in your adrenal function. Your (very) low cortisol draw could simply be a fluke, as with many hormone blood tests due to their dependent natures, but if I can speculate again, perhaps the cyst or your deficient pituitary function is inflicting low ACTH and at the root of your symptoms.

[VTX1800]

Thanks for the input man. After speaking with Kel I believe tge low cortisol is really adding to my lethargy as well as high prolactin levels. I've been doing some research, I still have a ways to go but is plan on addressing the adrenal issues with my doc. Plan on cutting out ALL sugar and a lot of carbs. I've been riding roallercoasters even while my TRT numbers were great. Non existent libido, depression, anxiety, blood sugar spikes leading to irritability too. Hoping to get a grip on my diet and add some natural supplements as well.