Is my bulk on track?

[RockyX]

I have been doing a clean bulk for about 2 weeks now. No supplements or anything (other than protein), and was just wondering if you guys think my progress is where it should be.

On April 13th, I started bulking. I was 157lbs. at 9.6% body fat.

Today (7 weeks later) I am 162.4 lbs. at 10% body fat.

My arms have gained around 1/4 of an inch. My chest about 1/2 inch, my legs an inch (mostly due to muscle memory I'm sure). And my waist has grown about 1/4 of an inch as well.

So what do you guys think? Good progress? Maybe throw some creatine into the mix? I'll try to get some pics up soon.

[RockyX]

The numbers show that I have gained around 4lbs. in LBM. Would the gains I've made (1/4" arms, 1/2" chest, 1" legs) really justify 4lbs. of muscle gain?

[SwoleCat]

Sounds like you are doing well. Remember the water/salt factors in your 4lbs. of gain.

~SC~

[LeanMeOut]

I have been doing a clean bulk for about 2 weeks now. No supplements or anything (other than protein), and was just wondering if you guys think my progress is where it should be.

On April 13th, I started bulking. I was 157lbs. at 9.6% body fat.

Today (7 weeks later) I am 162.4 lbs. at 10% body fat.

My arms have gained around 1/4 of an inch. My chest about 1/2 inch, my legs an inch (mostly due to muscle memory I'm sure). And my waist has grown about 1/4 of an inch as well.

So what do you guys think? Good progress? Maybe throw some creatine into the mix? I'll try to get some pics up soon.

Honestly bruh.... 4 pounds in 7 weeks is not good at all. No flame, just saying that I would atleast shoot for 1 pound a week, meaning you need to up your kcals a little or adjust your macros a tad. Tweak the diet a bit and see what helps. Like Swole said, remember weight fluctuates 5-7 pounds at any given time based on water weight, so you probably have not even gained 4 full lbs. I hope you did though

Adjust and keep on going. I can't wait for winter to get here for bulking to start



<<LMO>>

[RockyX]

actually I have a scale that tells me my water weight as well, and it has been pretty consistent, no big fluctuations. And I post my weight at the highest fluctuation. In April it never went over 157 and never below 153, now it never goes over about 163 and never below 159. The total macros on my diet come out to:
280g carbs-1120 cals
300g protein-1200 cals
90g fats-810 cals
So roughly 3200cals, you would think that would be enough.....I'm fixing to drop cardio from 3X a week to about twice a week.

[LeanMeOut]

actually I have a scale that tells me my water weight as well, and it has been pretty consistent, no big fluctuations. And I post my weight at the highest fluctuation. In April it never went over 157 and never below 153, now it never goes over about 163 and never below 159. The total macros on my diet come out to:
280g carbs-1120 cals
300g protein-1200 cals
90g fats-810 cals
So roughly 3200cals, you would think that would be enough.....I'm fixing to drop cardio from 3X a week to about twice a week.

How many minutes of cardio are you doing? You might want to drop it completely if you are not gaining, or try dropping it down to 30 minutes instead of the usual 45 minutes 3x a week.

<<LMO>>

[SwoleCat]

A scale that tells water weight????

~SC~

[RockyX]

Yeah, I have been doing 30mins of cardio 3x a week. But I also work out in the hot ass weather for at least 4 hours a day 5 days a week, so I can probably just drop cardio all together.

Also, Swole, this scale is pretty bad ass it tells my weight bf% and my water% (mine stays right around 63%). I bought it when I got tested the real way (the water chamber dill). The scale was withing .1% of what the water chamber deal told me I was (totally slipped my mind what it is called right now).

[LeanMeOut]

Yeah, I have been doing 30mins of cardio 3x a week. But I also work out in the hot ass weather for at least 4 hours a day 5 days a week, so I can probably just drop cardio all together.

Also, Swole, this scale is pretty bad ass it tells my weight bf% and my water% (mine stays right around 63%). I bought it when I got tested the real way (the water chamber dill). The scale was withing .1% of what the water chamber deal told me I was (totally slipped my mind what it is called right now).

Dude you are in the same boat as my lifting partner..... he works construction and is on roofs all day in the sun and lifting $hit etc..... I told him just like I'll tell you. Up your kcals..... you have to. You are more physically active and have a demanding job.... don't do it drastically just slightly until you start to gain.


<<LMO>>

[abc 1]

it could take up to 4 weeks to gain 1 pound of lean muscle and usually the most lbm you could gain in a month is 2 pounds. so if you've gained 1 or 2 pounds of lbm in 7 weeks and the rest is fat/water, i say good work. no reason to get sloppy when bulking, that is old school and out dated - unless you plan to compete and need to change your entire physique, then 1 to 2 good years of really bulking is more than likely necessary unless your genetically gifted for mass.

[LeanMeOut]

Dude he is 19 years old..... he can blow up easily without putting on excess fat. I know he can gain more than 1-2 pounds a month of LBM..... He needs to up the cals especially given his current work conditions. If he starts to gain excess fat then he can impliment the cardio back into it, but at 19 I doubt he is going to have a lot of fat gain with proper diet. I know I sure don't.


<<LMO>>

[RockyX]

I think I will up the cals. I will post my diet later with the add ins and see what you guys think. Maybe up to about 3500-3600.

[Farmer]

The dunk tank is hydrostatic weighing..

Where did you get the scale bro?? I've got a ****ing tanita man..the only thing that was good for was weighing my shoes I sold over Ebay..ROFL

Peace

Farmer

[RockyX]

LOL yeah I feel you bro. There was a deal on the news not too long ago, and out of 10 body fat scales tested, 8 were at least 8% off. The scale I have was the only one that passed. And I totally forgot what kind it is. I'm looking at it and I can't see a brand name or anything.....it's a bad ass little scale though.

[abc 1]

no one simply blows up without adding excess fat considering muscle is gained on a 1:1 ratio with fat when the diet is extremely dialed in. there is scientific proof out there proving this. so if he were to gain 10 pounds and hypothetically there is no water involved, 5 is muscle and 5 is fat. and that is in a perfect world.

you should decide what your goals are. if you want to add real size, your bf will have to increase somewhat. take into account if you want to be cut sometime in the next year because it is recommended that once you add new weight to your physique you should leave it there for 6 months or longer for your body to adapt to the change in overall structure. this is why bulking and cutting leads people to sloppy physiques (with the exception of competitors and usually the use of aas).

i'm fully developed and bulk as you are now, but i did go through growth stages (5'5" - 220lbs.) to reach the physique i have now (5'5" - 190lbs.). if you want to grow put the effort into that but do it right. it takes time, not 5 months bulking and 7 cutting. that gets you no where.

[)(PimP JuicE)(]

abc 1, sounds like you know what your talking about, how many months should you bulk, then stay at that weight for at least 6 months you said...and then you cut for how long? kinda confusing the way you explained it, sorry if im being a dumb a##

[RockyX]

I know that body fat comes with gaining muscle. I am just not being sloppy about it and am eating high calories without all the simple carbs and junk food. I have my goals set out, and within the next year I would like to be at least a lean 175 lbs. at 10% or less. (I know sounds small). But I think it is a goal I can obtain and hopefully even surpass. I have never heard about having to maintain for 6 months, that is totally new to me. I was thinking of bulking for about 10 months, maintaining for 6 weeks or so, and then cutting again.

[Woodrow]

I don't agree about 1:1 fat to muscle ratio while bulking "Cleanly". On a fast food diet maybe.

[SwoleCat]

I don't agree about 1:1 fat to muscle ratio while bulking "Cleanly". On a fast food diet maybe.

Ditto for sure, that's absurd, and only happens when the diet employed is, well, WHACK!

If this were the case, I'd be a fat bee-yatch, and those I assist would be looking to hunt me down for making them fat.

~SC~

[bad_man]

no one simply blows up without adding excess fat considering muscle is gained on a 1:1 ratio with fat when the diet is extremely dialed in. there is scientific proof out there proving this. so if he were to gain 10 pounds and hypothetically there is no water involved, 5 is muscle and 5 is fat. and that is in a perfect world.

Please show me this scientific proof because I think it's a load of horse$hit.

[SwoleCat]

Please show me this scientific proof because I think it's a load of horse$hit.

Or you can say it with a more direct approach, such as we see here.

~SC~

[bad_man]

Sorry, I'm just tired of seeing people say "I read a study that said..." or "it's scientific proof that...". I've been doing a LOT of research lately on line and at a couple of collegiate librabries. If you are going to say there is proof for something, show me where to find this proof.

If this is simply your opinion, or something your buddy told you, that's cool. Just say so. It doesn't mean you're wrong, it just helps me put what you're saying in context.

[RockyX]

I thought the same thing when I read it. 1:1 ratio? If that were the fact EVERYBODY who bulked would be fat. Many people can bulk...gain weight...and actually decrease their body fat percentage. That right there is proof enough for me that the statement was false. Also have you guys ever heard of having to keep the weight on for 6 months so your body can "adjust"?....All new stuff to me. I was tired last night and didn't feel like getting into it.

[SwoleCat]

Sorry, I'm just tired of seeing people say "I read a study that said..." or "it's scientific proof that...". I've been doing a LOT of research lately on line and at a couple of collegiate librabries. If you are going to say there is proof for something, show me where to find this proof.

If this is simply your opinion, or something your buddy told you, that's cool. Just say so. It doesn't mean you're wrong, it just helps me put what you're saying in context.

H*ll yeah, amen.

~SC~

[bad_man]

I thought the same thing when I read it. 1:1 ratio? If that were the fact EVERYBODY who bulked would be fat. Many people can bulk...gain weight...and actually decrease their body fat percentage. That right there is proof enough for me that the statement was false. Also have you guys ever heard of having to keep the weight on for 6 months so your body can "adjust"?....All new stuff to me. I was tired last night and didn't feel like getting into it.

Adjust to what? How tight your belt is?

[RockyX]

That's what I was thinking. ABC, are you saying that if you don't give your body time to adjust to your new size, then you'll lose it all when you cut? Doesn't make much sense.

[abc 1]

i get all my info from Mr. X. and he knows a ****load more than all the post regurgitators here. i'll stop by his new board and see if i can get him to refer me to where he posts his info from. if not, oh well. i could care less who believes what. he is a respected source of tons and tons of information and many people here have probably never heard of him.

swolecat:
calling another extremely well respected internet nutrition guru whack. it's his info i post. still think the info i posted is whack?

bad_man:
guarantee my source knows what he's speaking of. guaranteed! ask swolecat.
and sorry if your tired of seeing people say this and that. i'm tired of seeing everyone here saying the same **** and if anyone says otherwise, they get **** for it. please, everyone here (with a small, small, small number of exceptions) speaks like they know everything about diet because they're doing/done a cutting program for 5 months and read posts and then repost info. it's ridiculous listening to people who are 5'9" 170 pounds with @10%bf -so they claim - talk about bulking.

back to the post. all these people talking about blowing up and gaining little to no bf, put your money where your mouth is. lean me out and rocky x, you guys have never bulked and neither are big by any means - not a flame or disrespectful - but it's the truth.

i've seen pics that you've posted rocky x, am i supposed to be impressed (not a flame/disrespectful - you've lost weight and did a good job). the fact that in 2 months at your stature you've only gained 7 pounds, i'd be adjusting your "bulk" also. and don't try and explain that you have a scale that says you've gained no water and your scale is extremely accurate at reading bf, that's crap. you were never at 10% bf from the pics you posted and you dieted yourself down to a skinny build. what's the excitement of that?

as for adjusting to new muscle growth, you speak from zero experience so let's try and remember that.

swolecat you've never seriously bulked in the past to grow your physique to where it is now? i realize now, where you are at your stage you don't need to add tons of useless weight to grow, your already at an advanced level. but your going to agree that in this example, rocky x will be able to balloon up to 180/190 with no bf increase, and no need to put bf gain on the back burner and allow alittle growth (but not go over 14 - 15%). i find that hard to believe from a national competitor. my friend has done the junior usa's twice and he has utilized growth phases and off training years to get to the 290 offseason he is now and 250 on stage.

as for the post, if you add 10 pounds of muscle in a bulk over 10 months and maintain for 2 weeks and then cut calories, you are going to lose a nice percentage of the new muscle you've gained. that is if you think 5 pounds of new muscle lost is not a big deal. now someone come here and tell me that they won't because even though they are cutting 600 or 800 calories off their current diet, that the right macros will hold onto the new mass. do it your way because after dieting for 1 period in your life, you know what you need to do. from personal experience, which you don't have, the only time i was able to change my size was when i allowed myself to bulk and then stayed at that weight for a long period of time. not become a fat boy, enlarge you physique. i did what your trying to do with a great diet but it doesn't happen the way you think, it's not that easy.

if you think you could get to 180/190 without adding fat and restricting calories 6 months out of the year and "bulking" the other 6, go for it. i take my experience and that of those who compete around me and put it to use. if you want size, you have to train and eat for it. that can be 100% clean dieting but you have to add weight to change your physique.

a caloric surplus is a caloric surplus. that will never change. and if you do add new muscle you need to further increase your calories to continue to gain, means more calories. so if you think you can gain 20 pounds or more with little to no increase in bf, go for it. good luck with it.

i'll go to mr.x's board sometime this weekend and find out about the 1:1 ratio for all you guys.

[bad_man]

So, to summarize, your scientific proof is "Mr. X says so."

OK, thanks for clarifying.

[Beernutz]

i get all my info from Mr. X. and he knows a ****load more than all the post regurgitators here. i'll stop by his new board and see if i can get him to refer me to where he posts his info from. if not, oh well. i could care less who believes what. he is a respected source of tons and tons of information and many people here have probably never heard of him.

swolecat:
calling another extremely well respected internet nutrition guru whack. it's his info i post. still think the info i posted is whack?

bad_man:
guarantee my source knows what he's speaking of. guaranteed! ask swolecat.
and sorry if your tired of seeing people say this and that. i'm tired of seeing everyone here saying the same **** and if anyone says otherwise, they get **** for it. please, everyone here (with a small, small, small number of exceptions) speaks like they know everything about diet because they're doing/done a cutting program for 5 months and read posts and then repost info. it's ridiculous listening to people who are 5'9" 170 pounds with @10%bf -so they claim - talk about bulking.

back to the post. all these people talking about blowing up and gaining little to no bf, put your money where your mouth is. lean me out and rocky x, you guys have never bulked and neither are big by any means - not a flame or disrespectful - but it's the truth.

i've seen pics that you've posted rocky x, am i supposed to be impressed (not a flame/disrespectful - you've lost weight and did a good job). the fact that in 2 months at your stature you've only gained 7 pounds, i'd be adjusting your "bulk" also. and don't try and explain that you have a scale that says you've gained no water and your scale is extremely accurate at reading bf, that's crap. you were never at 10% bf from the pics you posted and you dieted yourself down to a skinny build. what's the excitement of that?

as for adjusting to new muscle growth, you speak from zero experience so let's try and remember that.

swolecat you've never seriously bulked in the past to grow your physique to where it is now? i realize now, where you are at your stage you don't need to add tons of useless weight to grow, your already at an advanced level. but your going to agree that in this example, rocky x will be able to balloon up to 180/190 with no bf increase, and no need to put bf gain on the back burner and allow alittle growth (but not go over 14 - 15%). i find that hard to believe from a national competitor. my friend has done the junior usa's twice and he has utilized growth phases and off training years to get to the 290 offseason he is now and 250 on stage.

as for the post, if you add 10 pounds of muscle in a bulk over 10 months and maintain for 2 weeks and then cut calories, you are going to lose a nice percentage of the new muscle you've gained. that is if you think 5 pounds of new muscle lost is not a big deal. now someone come here and tell me that they won't because even though they are cutting 600 or 800 calories off their current diet, that the right macros will hold onto the new mass. do it your way because after dieting for 1 period in your life, you know what you need to do. from personal experience, which you don't have, the only time i was able to change my size was when i allowed myself to bulk and then stayed at that weight for a long period of time. not become a fat boy, enlarge you physique. i did what your trying to do with a great diet but it doesn't happen the way you think, it's not that easy.

if you think you could get to 180/190 without adding fat and restricting calories 6 months out of the year and "bulking" the other 6, go for it. i take my experience and that of those who compete around me and put it to use. if you want size, you have to train and eat for it. that can be 100% clean dieting but you have to add weight to change your physique.

a caloric surplus is a caloric surplus. that will never change. and if you do add new muscle you need to further increase your calories to continue to gain, means more calories. so if you think you can gain 20 pounds or more with little to no increase in bf, go for it. good luck with it.

i'll go to mr.x's board sometime this weekend and find out about the 1:1 ratio for all you guys.

i dont understand how that wasnt a flame or disrepectful. Im not saying your right or wrong but dont knock other pples progress. Your also forgetting 1 thing your speaking as if everyone in this world is the same. Genetics plays a big part in alot of what you said.

[RockyX]

Okay well I don't see where going off on my appearance has anything to do with the thread? I was never close to 10%??? I had a 7 point caliper test done that had me put below the 10% mark. Why the excitement? Because I set my goal at a six pack, and achieved it. I think that is something to be happy about. Now maybe you may see it this way, but when people see me in public, they describe me as "swole". I get compliments almost every day. Yes even though I'm 5'9" 160lbs. I may not have alot of experience at bodybuilding, but I do know a little bit about science and the body bro, you don't know me, so you can keep your immature little assumptions to yourself. I'm a Anatomy major, in his junior year, holding a 4.0, all while studying anatomy. I'm on the Dean's list, the President's List, and I'm a member of Phi Theta Kappa. Don't try to tell me I don't know my **** about science and the Physiology of the human body ass hole. And Mr. X? What the ****, are you in a cult or something? You criticize us for not accepting other views, but look at the 4 page report you just wrote, dissing everybody because we didn't agree with what you were saying. Seems a little hypicritical if you ask me. I never said that I could get to 180 or 190 with no fat gains. If I did, please point it out to me. I've already gained fat, and I expect to gain fat. Hence why it's called a BULK. I don't claim to have the perfect body, but lets see some pics of you? You talk the talk, so walk the walk, put some pics up. I might not be huge to you, but I just turned 19 and still have a lot of growing to do. I don't know if you're on the rag or what, but you need to calm the fiznuck down, and back the **** off. You don't know me. And I think my cut was rather successful, I lost 5 inches in the waist and only 1/2" from the arms and chest. My vascularity GREATLY improved as well. Who the **** gives you the authority to judge whether or not I met MY goals,and whether I should be excited about it. Sorry bro, but my reasons for posting here is not to impress you. I've got bigger and better thing to deal with.

[LeanMeOut]

Okay well I don't see where going off on my appearance has anything to do with the thread? I was never close to 10%??? I had a 7 point caliper test done that had me put below the 10% mark. Why the excitement? Because I set my goal at a six pack, and achieved it. I think that is something to be happy about. Now maybe you may see it this way, but when people see me in public, they describe me as "swole". I get compliments almost every day. Yes even though I'm 5'9" 160lbs. I may not have alot of experience at bodybuilding, but I do know a little bit about science and the body bro, you don't know me, so you can keep your immature little assumptions to yourself. I'm a Anatomy major, in his junior year, holding a 4.0, all while studying anatomy. I'm on the Dean's list, the President's List, and I'm a member of Phi Theta Kappa. Don't try to tell me I don't know my **** about science and the Physiology of the human body ass hole. And Mr. X? What the ****, are you in a cult or something? You criticize us for not accepting other views, but look at the 4 page report you just wrote, dissing everybody because we didn't agree with what you were saying. Seems a little hypicritical if you ask me. I never said that I could get to 180 or 190 with no fat gains. If I did, please point it out to me. I've already gained fat, and I expect to gain fat. Hence why it's called a BULK. I don't claim to have the perfect body, but lets see some pics of you? You talk the talk, so walk the walk, put some pics up. I might not be huge to you, but I just turned 19 and still have a lot of growing to do. I don't know if you're on the rag or what, but you need to calm the fiznuck down, and back the **** off. You don't know me. And I think my cut was rather successful, I lost 5 inches in the waist and only 1/2" from the arms and chest. My vascularity GREATLY improved as well. Who the **** gives you the authority to judge whether or not I met MY goals,and whether I should be excited about it.
Sorry bro, but my reasons for posting here is not to impress you. I've got bigger and better thing to deal with.

RockyX ---> <-- abc 1


HAHA

<<LMO>>

[LeanMeOut]

And that's the bottom line.... cause Mr. X said so!

What a crock


<<LMO>>

[LeanMeOut]

back to the post. all these people talking about blowing up and gaining little to no bf, put your money where your mouth is. lean me out and rocky x, you guys have never bulked and neither are big by any means - not a flame or disrespectful - but it's the truth.

LOL really.... so me going from 160 to 190 in 5 months is not a "bulk" and I am not big at 5'10 190??? I am not HUGE, but I would say 5'10 190 is far from small. And I have maintained about 12% bf the whole time, and now I am closer to 10. But I didn't do that because it is impossible to gain 30 lbs without any fat right?? Even though I am 19 and have great genetics for mass building as I have come to find. Whatever.... say what you want. Where are your pics? How about posting some? I would love to see what you look like.


<<LMO>>

[SwoleCat]

Oh no, "another one" in the house.

First off, walking in here like you're some G or important informant while trying to call out everyone and insult the members here will get you no-where at this location. If you wish to have a voice, better check that sh*t.

Yes, I called the idea WHACK.........it is, even long BEFORE you said they are "Mr. X's" ideas or whoever. (I thought they were your's, silly of me to think you had your own information) Regardless of WHERE the idea you bring here came from, that IDEA is not just one person's, nor is it any 1 IDEAL or "have to happen this way" set-up. It's not a specific program you presented here, it's an IDEA. It's like other ideas here, try them for yourself and see. Nothing more, nothing less. The part about it being "scientific data" is hilarious, because I never knew science could make every person on earth grow the exact same way, decade after decade, in the same manner, and with a 1 to 1 ratio of lean muscle to fat! Very cool! Note extreme sarcasm............

I could give a sh*t if it was Michael Jackson's idea, it's still whack. Simply because it's totally FALSE that one HAS to gain at that ratio, and that all will............that is absurd.

What's funny is you called people here "post regurgitators" and you yourself say "I post Mr. X's information".........barf, barf........and you'll be back tomorrow w/more of HIS stuff! What do you call that Ralph? Kettle, meet Mr. Black!

No matter who's "IDEAS", we don't need them not only presented, but FORCED upon us here. If you don't get it by now, well, no one really cares.

~SC~

[SwoleCat]

i get all my info from Mr. X. and he knows a ****load more than all the post regurgitators here. i'll stop by his new board and see if i can get him to refer me to where he posts his info from. if not, oh well. i could care less who believes what. he is a respected source of tons and tons of information and many people here have probably never heard of him.

Big point missed here is that this board has lots of respected individuals as well. That is why those who are here, are here. They like the advice they receive, they contribute and help out as well, and we all learn as we go along. Many people probably have never heard of many bros on here, but that isn't indicative of them not having viable/useful information. So, to each his own as is the norm, and there will always be locations for information. You migrate where you wish to learn. So, if people want to be here, they will be here. If they want to go see what you are talking about at another board, they'll go and do that. You're not going to be able to force anyone to do anything they don't wish to do.

In closing, the "idea" was WHACK because it was presented as being APPLICABLE as the ONLY way it is, ever, to everyone. That kind of statement is whack on ANY level, no matter what the subject matter. Those kind of statements are only made as a set-up to tear down other ideas at a said location. Like that's not blatantly obvious.

I'm quite finished. You wanna know my credentials, check the magazines.

~SC~

[Beernutz]

Big point missed here is that this board has lots of respected individuals as well. That is why those who are here, are here. They like the advice they receive, they contribute and help out as well, and we all learn as we go along. Many people probably have never heard of many bros on here, but that isn't indicative of them not having viable/useful information. So, to each his own as is the norm, and there will always be locations for information. You migrate where you wish to learn. So, if people want to be here, they will be here. If they want to go see what you are talking about at another board, they'll go and do that. You're not going to be able to force anyone to do anything they don't wish to do.

In closing, the "idea" was WHACK because it was presented as being APPLICABLE as the ONLY way it is, ever, to everyone. That kind of statement is whack on ANY level, no matter what the subject matter. Those kind of statements are only made as a set-up to tear down other ideas at a said location. Like that's not blatantly obvious.

I'm quite finished. You wanna know my credentials, check the magazines.

~SC~

Go SC..... its your birthday...lol

[RockyX]

Okay guys. I posted some updated pics in the members pictures forum. Check it out and let me know if you think the "wrong" way is working for me or not.

http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=104446

[SwoleCat]

My comments over there read.....


Definite improvement.

Brush those shoulders off.....

~SC~

[Beernutz]

My comments over there read.....


Definite improvement.

Brush those shoulders off.....

~SC~

agreed. You know what your doing keep it up.

[RockyX]

Thanks bros. Shakin' them haters off one day at a time hehe.