4,200 mg of test cyp per week?

[Eddie8]

Exactly! Amen Brother!

You seem real hardheaded to make your point Eddie!

I think it is real irresponsible what you are trying sto say!
You want to use 4 grams of Test a week?
Go ahead!
Just stop encouraging others to use it, by propagandizing better results while leaving sides (and especially long term effects) out of the equation!

Greets
Kingofmasters

I agree with everything said in Warriors post!

Please read that last sentence about 10 times so you will comprehend it.

Just trying to generate a little more dialogue from others with experience, good or bad. If you would take the time to read my posts and understand what I have asked and understand the little bit of humor offered instead of constantly flapping your jaw, or your fingers in this case, you will see, that I am not trying to promote high dose use, I am just asking questions to try to gain some knowledge. As I said in my very first post, my friend considered his use to be: A VERY NEGATIVE THING IN HIS LIFE. He tells me he is completely off all chemicals and if you didn’t know any better you would never guess he was ever the monster that he was years ago. When I told him I was going to start another cycle he said he was very against it and asked my why I wanted to do it since I was no longer a competitive bodybuilder or power lifter.

Of all the posts on this thread there are more posts condemning this type of use than anything else, (although many of them are yours). That is what this is supposed to be, an open forum for everyone to share their viewpoint and experiences relative to the questions asked by the posting member. Actually I personally agree with everything you have said regarding high dose use and the risks involved. Where we differ is that I recognize that many use these high doses and some appear to be none the worse off from it. Although that may be because they are the only ones with good enough genetics to have stayed alive and all of the others are dead, but I don’t really know. Your points about long term sides that have not manifested themselves are well made.

I don’t promote high dose use, I would never do it personally because I have other things in life that are important to me. At the age of 45, I realize that there are many things in life that are more important than any of this for me. However, I do acknowledge that high dose use takes place by more athletes that you might think and at all ages. Unlike you, I do not condemn any adult that wants to take that course even though it may not fit into my acceptable values and limits. It’s their decision to weigh out the gains made relative to the additional sides.

IMO you need to loosen up, you take yourself way too seriously. I can tell that you are very impressed with yourself by the fact that you are a medical student since you have mentioned it several times in your posts, however this does not impress me at all. You are still wet behind the ears when it comes to experience. Knowledge is not everything, if it were every PHD would be a billionaire instead of teaching class at school.

In response to one of you earlier posts: yes you are correct, this is not an argument, so don’t try to make it one and try to remain a little more objective. You asked what you were missing: IMO you are missing the entire point of my post.

Now I am sure you will take this post and interpret it to say something else other than what I intended. Please don't get all mad again when you read my post. This banter between you and I has been fun for me but I am tired of going back and forth with you, I am old you know and I haven’t taken my HGH shot for the day.

Thanks for your input....

E8

[LightWeightBaby]

ronny takes over a gram of test a day, so yeah i can see how someone would take that much

[Eddie8]

I was going to bump that awhile ago...

Everyone knows somebody... IMO - no one knows anything for certain, other than what they stick in their own ass... and even then - people using black market sources still don't truely know unless they get lab tests...

Warrior....this is a good point and I didn’t respond to it earlier in the post. Your point is well made too. At the time I have referred to (20 years ago) all of the drugs we got were brand name from American pharmaceutical companies. Our Anavar was from Searle, our winny, test, and deca I believe were from Upjon but I can’t remember fore sure. Everything we took was brand name and the drugs were not very expensive either relative to today. We all used the same source, the gym manager. Times were much different back then. Also, I don’t believe there was much counterfeiting going on. It wasn't worth it since the volume to be sold was not nearly as high as today and the technology to make the cartons and labels was very expensive.

E8

[Eddie8]

ronny takes over a gram of test a day, so yeah i can see how someone would take that much

WOW.....

[sd11]

Here are two different posts taken from Professional Muscle....they were made by the mod BIGA who is also an IFBB pro.

A standard cycle for me includes:
3g test per week (usually sustanon)
100mg/d d-bol or 200mg/d a-50 or a combination of both.
75mg EOD of tren
anything up to 1g/week of an anbolic like deca or eq (if I can be bothered - the test and the orals are the main mass builders)
Arimidex 1mg/d - M to F
20mg/d Nolvadex Sat and Sun
5mg Proscar per day
5000IU HCG every 4 weeks
anything up to 30IU GH/day (depends on $ available)
30IU/day insulin in 2 divided shots
25mcg/d T3
As much Synthergine as I can be bothered injecting - usually 2-4ml/day
As much Syntheselen as I can be bothered injecting - usually 4ml ED or EOD

That's a bulk cycle.

I stay on that for as long as I chose to. Blood tests every 6 weeks or so. Never had a problem side effects wise. The minimum amoutn of gear I owuld take would 1g/week test.

I have been on for almost 10 years straight. My body is burned out (not responding anymore) so 5 months ago I decided to have a break off EVRYTHING. So now I am natural, and not training, and just being a normal human being I will probably start gain in 3 to 6 months - whenevr I feel that I am ready for it again.

I know some pros that take MUCH less and some much more. One the most he ever took was 500mg/week sustanon - no **** and he was competing at 238 at 5'9. Top 6 at the Olympia too. But also there are those that take 10g+ per week. It's all individual

It is about your genetics. Your genetics for your body to accept gear without side effects.

I have been on mostly since Jan 1992. Between Oct 1996 and Sep 2001 I had a total of about 5 or 6 weeks off. I never took less than 1,000mg in that time frame.

Now, I have been off since Sep 2001, as I lost my fire mentally plus my body stopped responding to diet and drugs since Oct 2000. So I stopped all gear and gym and became a normal person for the last 6 months.

Since I have been off, my HPTA was back to normal after 6 weeks. All else perfect. I dropped over 30lbs and I have gotten fatter, but I am still 242. And I feel GREAT! Light, athletic and NORMAL!

However, lately I have been itching to get back again. I will in about a month or so.

Now, this is very important. I ALWAYS had blood tests every 4-6 weeks. They always came back perfect because I would spend LOTS of $ on accessory meds - anti-e's. anti-dht's, hcg, clomid, liver aids, acne meds, etc, etc. I don't drink alcohol or do any rec drugs AT ALL. I don't smoke either. So my body was able to handle the drugs with no problems. Plus I was doing it intelligently and I have the genetics to accept the drugs. If you don't have ALL the above matters in place, it is not advisable to be on non stop.

My philosophy about cycle length is that it should be judged by your health or results. If your blood tests come back perfect every time, your health is OK. If you keep geting results, your receptors are fine. So if your health is OK and your receptors are fine, why come off???

[BDTR]

Its kind of uneasy seeing so many people judging those of us who use high doses. There is no right present to judge someone on their choices or classify them that way.

[Eddie8]

Its kind of uneasy seeing so many people judging those of us who use high doses. There is no right present to judge someone on their choices or classify them that way.

My point exactly. Especially when the ones doing the judging have never walked the walk.

E8

[BDTR]

I just look at it like a "social" heroin user condemming someone who may use more. We're all in the same boat here, no need to judge.

[BDTR]

I dont see where i fit into the classifications listed here though.

I have no interest in competing, at all. I would never stand on a stage in my underwear spray painted bronze and be used as an anatomy chart, its not my thing.

I'm not a pro athlete and have no hopes to go pro.

I just like being big, but its not in a dickhead way like listed. It's just my thing.

I'm not your average steroid user who uses it for "health" (lol cus we all know steroids are healthywhen self adminstering. Despite what anyone says, i will never consider steroids healthy unless there is in fact a medical reason for them and they're prescribed by a doctor) I dont know, i just feel like i got indirectly attacked here.

[BDTR]

looks good.

Here are two different posts taken from Professional Muscle....they were made by the mod BIGA who is also an IFBB pro.

A standard cycle for me includes:
3g test per week (usually sustanon)
100mg/d d-bol or 200mg/d a-50 or a combination of both.
75mg EOD of tren
anything up to 1g/week of an anbolic like deca or eq (if I can be bothered - the test and the orals are the main mass builders)
Arimidex 1mg/d - M to F
20mg/d Nolvadex Sat and Sun
5mg Proscar per day
5000IU HCG every 4 weeks
anything up to 30IU GH/day (depends on $ available)
30IU/day insulin in 2 divided shots
25mcg/d T3
As much Synthergine as I can be bothered injecting - usually 2-4ml/day
As much Syntheselen as I can be bothered injecting - usually 4ml ED or EOD

That's a bulk cycle.

I stay on that for as long as I chose to. Blood tests every 6 weeks or so. Never had a problem side effects wise. The minimum amoutn of gear I owuld take would 1g/week test.

I have been on for almost 10 years straight. My body is burned out (not responding anymore) so 5 months ago I decided to have a break off EVRYTHING. So now I am natural, and not training, and just being a normal human being I will probably start gain in 3 to 6 months - whenevr I feel that I am ready for it again.

I know some pros that take MUCH less and some much more. One the most he ever took was 500mg/week sustanon - no **** and he was competing at 238 at 5'9. Top 6 at the Olympia too. But also there are those that take 10g+ per week. It's all individual

It is about your genetics. Your genetics for your body to accept gear without side effects.

I have been on mostly since Jan 1992. Between Oct 1996 and Sep 2001 I had a total of about 5 or 6 weeks off. I never took less than 1,000mg in that time frame.

Now, I have been off since Sep 2001, as I lost my fire mentally plus my body stopped responding to diet and drugs since Oct 2000. So I stopped all gear and gym and became a normal person for the last 6 months.

Since I have been off, my HPTA was back to normal after 6 weeks. All else perfect. I dropped over 30lbs and I have gotten fatter, but I am still 242. And I feel GREAT! Light, athletic and NORMAL!

However, lately I have been itching to get back again. I will in about a month or so.

Now, this is very important. I ALWAYS had blood tests every 4-6 weeks. They always came back perfect because I would spend LOTS of $ on accessory meds - anti-e's. anti-dht's, hcg, clomid, liver aids, acne meds, etc, etc. I don't drink alcohol or do any rec drugs AT ALL. I don't smoke either. So my body was able to handle the drugs with no problems. Plus I was doing it intelligently and I have the genetics to accept the drugs. If you don't have ALL the above matters in place, it is not advisable to be on non stop.

My philosophy about cycle length is that it should be judged by your health or results. If your blood tests come back perfect every time, your health is OK. If you keep geting results, your receptors are fine. So if your health is OK and your receptors are fine, why come off???

[Eddie8]

Thanks again for your great posts from a man with "personal experience". I have learned a lot from your posts as well as the other experienced bros. Your point about safe or healthy use of AAs is spot on IMO. People that live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks. Sorry I shortened your quote a bit.

I'm not a pro athlete and have no hopes to go pro.

I just like being big, but its not in a dickhead way like listed. It's just my thing.

I'm not your average steroid user who uses it for "health" (lol cus we all know steroids are healthywhen self adminstering. Despite what anyone says, i will never consider steroids healthy unless there is in fact a medical reason for them and they're prescribed by a doctor) I dont know, i just feel like i got indirectly attacked here.

[Eddie8]

Hey BD...I find it interesting that no one else stepped up to the question I asked regarding strength, except for you and LMR. I find that interesting since some of the bros were so vocal about everything else. My guess is that they can't hold up to the question. Strength envy, at least I think that is what Froyd called it.

Yeah, my lifts are pretty much that.

It doesn't "take that" to get there, but it can for some. Some people have natural limitations that are much lower than others, me on the otherhand, im a genetic ectomorph who managed to turn himself into a meso/endo.

[LuvMuhRoids]

This is very true and Im glad you included this with your comments Einstein. No way never would I pound 2-3 grams of anything in me with out keeping up on my diet, rest, supplements and track of my BP. As well as knowing how my body is responding to anything Im taking. Also, I would never recommend hitting that much with out reaching that high of a cycle from previous stepping cycles. I administer SERM's and AI's through out my cycles along with the strict adminstration of proper PCT.

One more comment. the guys that did comment that they use relatively (very) high doses....all know what the hell they're doing in terms of training and diet. I don't care if you've got an IV drip of suspension going, if your diet isn't impeccable and training and rest aren't optimized, then you're relying far too much on the gear, and you'll be let down

[big4nuthin]

Using high dosages of AAS doen not guarantee you will shorten your life. It may increase the chances, but there is no conclusive evidence that is the end result. Too many "experts" here on the subject, yet no real evidence. I know people so obsessed with getting ahead in life, more money, more cars, more more more. People like that are dying all the time because of the stress. Not all of them, but a good amount of them. Its a game of chance pure and simple.

[kingofmasters]

You must be kiddin' right?

Now it just maybe me, but everytime you post, you seem to change the goal and message of your post to the responses
--> When everybody disagreed you suddenly changed the contents and goal a bit and accused me of not understanding , not reading your post etc.
Now when people like BDTR start to agree with you; you suddenly commented glorious in three posts how great they were and that they totally got your point!
(I especially disliked the fact that you dissed me BEHIND MY BACK in another post)
I'm starting to think you are a politician of some kind!

Now it is YOU who seem to forget the PURPOSE of this board:
If you say something, be a man!, stand behind it!
then if you see that you were wrong (by exchanging thoughts)
Than be a man! and ADMIT it...

I didn't say that what you said is wrong nor did I condemn such usage; I just adviced you not to do it (And this is something called concern) when you really thrived on getting your post through I just said "Do it'", just don't have the irresponsibility of propagandazing it...

Second accusing me (and thus other bros like Warrior who also had the sense and knowledge to disagree) of envy is hilarious.
Especially since you misspelled FREUD and made up a theory that never exhisted by that man to create the illusion that you are a Knowledgable man.

And big4nuthin --> Come on Bro!
This is just plain manipulating!
Look, there are many people in the medical field active on this board who also juice and are not only up to date on the Side-effects but also on the beneficiary purpose...
Also all Bros here do not seem affected by the stigma the media puts on the "evils" of steroids.
But ignoring the fact that such high doses are bad for your health and that they shorten your NATURAL lifespan is just plain stupid.
(Not only all the studies that proove it but also the many Pros that have health problems or die --> Which also has to do with their extreme dedication like Einstein said of unhealthy Nutrientintake etc.)

Nobody is kiddin' anybody here; You will not loose gains, you have to have a good diet and training while "on" and proper use of it prevents sides.
Just don't say it's a game of chance (The stress which you mentioned, and the one who I said doctors think is the cause of 90% of the diseases, is just like with ultra high doses of steroids due to a constant disturbtion of homeostasis which is the body in perfect balance and the organs who are constantly working "overtime")

Greets
Kingofmasters

[big4nuthin]

I never said there were no dangers associated with high dosages. Go back and read what I said. So any pro who is using test in the 4 gram range is guaranteed to shorten his or her life span? Do you have documented case study on this subject? How do you know that the Pro's you are refferring to who have major health problems or are dead is a result of just high test usage. Remember this thread started out questioning the need to use just Test in the 4g range in order to get certain strength gains. I dont appreciate you referring to my thinking as stupid. Stupid because I dont agree with you? Who are you? What makes you so ****ing right? Yeah, I know. Your an expert.

[kingofmasters]

I never said there were no dangers associated with high dosages. Go back and read what I said. So any pro who is using test in the 4 gram range is guaranteed to shorten his or her life span? Do you have documented case study on this subject? How do you know that the Pro's you are refferring to who have major health problems or are dead is a result of just high test usage. Remember this thread started out questioning the need to use just Test in the 4g range in order to get certain strength gains. I dont appreciate you referring to my thinking as stupid. Stupid because I dont agree with you? Who are you? What makes you so ****ing right? Yeah, I know. Your an expert.

Your thinking isn't stupid!
And I am no expert, also I am not always right as is any man, just don't come with unfounded arguments which scientifical researches can easily overthrow
Your reasoning just isn't right --> Ultra High doses of Testosteron shorten Telomere considerabely
Telomere is the most simpele protein we know that plays a role in NATURAL lifespan (not accounting for Methusalem gene etc.).
Also Testosterone enlarges hartchambers with the simple result of the Hart loosing pumping-capacity.
The pros have problems due to a combo of things (Intensity training, Unhealthy unnatural diets, Steroids, using diuretics etc.) if they weren't monitored by docs all the time they would be in considerable more trouble.
Saying ultra high doses of test does not shorten lifespan is like saying eating twice your daily Calorie requirement everyday in a 50/50 fat to carbos ratio isn't fattening!

Studies?
Just search Pubmed for:
Androgens
Testosterone
Life expectancy
Telomere
Aging
Heart Chambers

This will give you some reading!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[big4nuthin]

fair enough.

[Eddie8]

****...you are starting to scare me. My life span is going to drop, my heart is going to enlarge, my diet is going to kill me. What am I doing here? I think I am going to take up knitting. By the way, how much can you lift?

Your thinking isn't stupid!
And I am no expert, also I am not always right as is any man, just don't come with unfounded arguments which scientifical researches can easily overthrow
Your reasoning just isn't right --> Ultra High doses of Testosteron shorten Telomere considerabely
Telomere is the most simpele protein we know that plays a role in NATURAL lifespan (not accounting for Methusalem gene etc.).
Also Testosterone enlarges hartchambers with the simple result of the Hart loosing pumping-capacity.
The pros have problems due to a combo of things (Intensity training, Unhealthy unnatural diets, Steroids, using diuretics etc.) if they weren't monitored by docs all the time they would be in considerable more trouble.
Saying ultra high doses of test does not shorten lifespan is like saying eating twice your daily Calorie requirement everyday in a 50/50 fat to carbos ratio isn't fattening!

Studies?
Just search Pubmed for:
Androgens
Testosterone
Life expectancy
Telomere
Aging
Heart Chambers

This will give you some reading!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[Warrior]

****...you are starting to scare me. My life span is going to drop, my heart is going to enlarge, my diet is going to kill me. What am I doing here? I think I am going to take up knitting. By the way, how much can you lift?

YOU --> 1) Recreational user type A: Basically, he embodies every insult leveled at bodybuilders by the public. We deny his existence to the media because he has become the single biggest argument for keeping steroid use illegal. He is the prize jerk who calls himself a bodybuilder but whose image problem will always prevent him from competing. This never fails to prevent him from telling everyone how he would have won this or that show had he competed. His only quest in life is to gain bodyweight, and even this goal is subject to wild exaggerations, as he usually bull****s anyone within earshot. He has made obnoxiousness an Olympic event and loves to vent the only part of his body with a cut in it?his mouth?on the bulletin boards. He is addicted to abuse.

[ColdSore]

YOU --> 1) Recreational user type A: Basically, he embodies every insult leveled at bodybuilders by the public. We deny his existence to the media because he has become the single biggest argument for keeping steroid use illegal. He is the prize jerk who calls himself a bodybuilder but whose image problem will always prevent him from competing. This never fails to prevent him from telling everyone how he would have won this or that show had he competed. His only quest in life is to gain bodyweight, and even this goal is subject to wild exaggerations, as he usually bull****s anyone within earshot. He has made obnoxiousness an Olympic event and loves to vent the only part of his body with a cut in it?his mouth?on the bulletin boards. He is addicted to abuse.

eddie was not running those doses...he was simply telling you all about an old timer at the gym, and what he claimed to do...

why on the hell are yall bashing eddie directly????

[Warrior]

eddie was not running those doses...he was simply telling you all about an old timer at the gym, and what he claimed to do...

why on the hell are yall bashing eddie directly????

Many have already mentioned the dangers of running such high doses of androgens - and who such use may apply to... by people who have researched the topic, some of which are in the midst of an MD or already have one. These types of doses should not be glorified to some new user at a lean 200, soaking wet... but rather apply to those who alreay have a large build and high LBM. And even then - 4 grams of testosterone seems like a rediculous hormonal burden to even consider... IMHO...

But his best retort is, " ****...you are starting to scare me. My life span is going to drop, my heart is going to enlarge, my diet is going to kill me. What am I doing here? I think I am going to take up knitting. By the way, how much can you lift?"

[Eddie8]

Thanks Cold, I appreciate your standing up for me..... but mostly thanks for taking the time to read and comprehend my posts and for offering well thought out, legitimate, non-judgmental posts in return.

eddie was not running those doses...he was simply telling you all about an old timer at the gym, and what he claimed to do...

why on the hell are yall bashing eddie directly????

[Eddie8]

I appreciate your thoughts Warrior but you don’t know me and to categorize me into your type A: without knowing me is just plain ignorant, IMHO . I am amazed at how threatened some have gotten by this post. It seems to have stirred up some type of latent insecurity in some.

Again, I will say, I am just looking to hear from some "experienced" bros that have taken this much Test or that knew bros that have done it to see if they had the same results that my friend did. I know what the theory says and probably everyone on this board does too. As I go back over the posts several responded with personal experience, some knew others and some had read things about others. I think the posts speak for themselves. Of course you have put your two cents in as well and that is great, as I said earlier I personally agree with you, for my own personal use, the risks outweigh the gains. but I don’t condemn any one else for testing the boundaries of conventional wisdom. Actually we are all doing this at a smaller level because the medical community as a whole thinks that we are taking too much risk for vanity or ego.

The other thing that I find interesting in the replies by you, KOM and a few others is that there is some indirect bashing and judging of the bros that use higher doses as BD said. They are being called crazy and stupid. This is strange to me in that the general consensus on this board is that most of the pros use even more than 4g of test per week along with many other things and they are considered the benchmark for greatness in BB. How do you think that they got there? Yea, Yea, Yea I know they have great genetics. Why get so upset over this if that is what your heroes do. Are you guys jealous or are you ashamed of yourself that you don’t have the guts to give it a try and see what happens. I have to believe that if you and almost everyone else on this board could inject lighter fluid in his a** and get an 800 lb squat and a 550 bench, along with a physique that could win a national title, without too much sides you would do it. Even if flame shot out of your as* every time you farted. Fear is a crippling thing.

I agree with your concerns, its not for me either, I am also too chicken to try but IMO you are fooling yourself if you think that when you meet guy with a truly outstanding freaky physique or a pro that he is not testing the outer limits. I know that there are exceptions but generally speaking.

Also, let me ask you this. If you could afford it and you were GUARANTEED no ill side effects for now or later in life and you could become the pinnacle of greatness, whatever that is to you, would you take 4g per week, how about 7 or 10?

Man, this is work. I don’t know how you guys get so many posts.

Thanks for your thoughts and insults…

E8

YOU --> 1) Recreational user type A: Basically, he embodies every insult leveled at bodybuilders by the public. We deny his existence to the media because he has become the single biggest argument for keeping steroid use illegal. He is the prize jerk who calls himself a bodybuilder but whose image problem will always prevent him from competing. This never fails to prevent him from telling everyone how he would have won this or that show had he competed. His only quest in life is to gain bodyweight, and even this goal is subject to wild exaggerations, as he usually bull****s anyone within earshot. He has made obnoxiousness an Olympic event and loves to vent the only part of his body with a cut in it?his mouth?on the bulletin boards. He is addicted to abuse.

[Tanker]

insaine

[wilthepill123]

why are you bringing back such an old post