Good post TNT as always - sorry is that brown nosing?
Hey Dizzy I,m yanking your chain bro lol
Retired Moderator
Good post TNT as always - sorry is that brown nosing?
Hey Dizzy I,m yanking your chain bro lol
Retired Admin
Ok, man this has been an interesting debate. Sorry I haven't had a chance to participate.
On behalf of AR, this is what the deal is about the opposite sex board:
The board was originally my idea I believe. I wanted a place where the females and males can interact. I wanted a place where everyone could have fun and get opinions and help from each other. It was a place to learn, just like anabolic review was originally created for, we wanted to use it for education. Now I want you to go back and read the old threads of the opposite sex board. If you notice, this board started off perfectly for the most part. Females and males helping each other out. Now, well now I don't know what has happened. The arguments back and forth about free speech and all of that is great, but here is something that I have thought of recently. I am proud of this board, as everyone who is a member should be a proud of as well. When I have friends come over, I show them this board. I want to say, look at this, look at everyone helping each other. Go ahead click anywhere you want. Everyone is helping each other out. But then you find the opposite sex board. A tread about How big is your penis? is not something I would want a friend to read. A thread about a relationship problem, yeah I can see that being helpful. Do you see what I am saying everyone? I had someone argue that the board was just asking for things to get, well as bad as they are right now. There are people that could really benefit from that board. But in order for me to keep it, there would have to be a good reason for it. Topics would have to be helping each other. If you want to play, you can post in the general questions board. Remember some of the complaints about females not posting in that board? Why do you think they quit posting there? Anyone? I still don't know what to do about the future of this board, but I need everyone to understand where I am coming from before I even consider reopening it.
Associate Member
My thoughts first off on all of this is...WOW....I had no idea these posts were causing so much uproar. I saw them as nothing more than jokes, I read them, they made me laugh my ass of and I even posted to them. I guess my maturity level is not up like some in here, but I love to laugh so I saw them as no problem Therefore I see where Dizzy is coming from. However in light of all this I see where BigKev and TNT are coming from.
I saw all the posts in the General Section and the Opposite Sex with just a way of getting to know everyone in the AR family better. It almost helped to feel more like I really know the people on here. But none the less this is a BB forum, so if that is all that can be so be it. I for one NEED this site...I've learned more than I know what to do with because of this. The most important thing I've learned is that, I really don’t know anything.
I do not think Dizzy is trying to attack any members or mobs by what he is saying. I think most all the people involved with these bad posts and threads did not know they were harming AR, but just having a little fun. I know personally that from now on if I saw any childish thread I would not reply to it even if I wanted to. That's because now I know that it is a problem.
If I put my foot in my mouth in anyway I apologize. I never meant to offend any member of this board by having "fun". But now that there have been limits set I know where the limits of "fun" are.
Last edited by BigD; 04-22-2002 at 02:19 PM.
Banned
BigD I just noticed your sig line, that is really wonderful. Just thought I'd say that
Retired Moderator
Happy TRails (No, I"m not leaving)...
. . . but it's gettin' on time for me to close out my involvement in this thread.
Jason has explained the official position quite well, and I support whichever move he makes regarding the Opp Sex board.
Dizzy, I said it before anecdotally, but now I'm pleased to say it for real: Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I always like to give people a second shot, but it is quite clear that you are attempting to antagonize people, especially bigkev. Your comments have gone beyond making a point; they now appear to be simply confrontational. When valid points are made, I have no problem with argumentation. But when it becomes arguing for the sake of arguing, I suggest that it be shoved where the sun don't shine. Being an ex-academician, of course, I make that as a most cordial and collegial suggestion.
Seriously, bro (still on Dizzy, here), I agree with you - you do need a break. Sounds like you need to hit a beach and chill out. Our door will always be open and you will always be welcome to engage in civil discourse.
BigD, I think your post is pretty well on the mark. The parameters of good taste are sometimes difficult to discern, but all of thie debate does not, by any means, indicate that we are trying to over-censor, be prudes, act against sexual expression or the discussion of relationship issues that carries respect for each other as members.
Yeah, even the mods have a sense of humor. Hell, I've joined in the friendly jokes about D00fy (whom I've come to think of as the A.R. mascot), Canes (who, by any definition, is the queen of the board - stop blushing, Canes!), Terinox (hairiest back in the western hemisphere!), Primo (greatest user name on the board, and I'd trust her to protect my back in a dark alley any day), Dr.Evil (to whom I refer as my "distinguished colleague"), and others. I love these people, and we can rib each other any day - as long as it's tasteful, as long as it's not hurtful, and as long as it doesn't treat a person or a group as an object. And no, I haven't minded when I've been called the wordiest person on the board, the "King of Italics" (the only problem I ever had with those comments is that they came right after my hernia surgery, and it hurt like hell when I laughed), or as recently as a few days ago, when it was suggested that I must be "60+ years old" (I'm not, but I wouldn't mind wearing that badge of honor some day).
Ladies and gentlemen, it's time we lighten up. Civilly and with the usual mutual respect by which A.R. has comet to be known, but lighten up just the same.
By the way, I am pleased to anounce that there will be another new forum established next week called "Ask the Same Sex." Canes will be moderating, and cocktails will be at six.*
_________________
* This is what we call satire. I apologize if the gay members at A.R. suddenly got excited by such a thought.
Banned
Queen of the Board.....PLEASE !!! I passed being a Queen years ago.
I am an EMPRESS by now.
And if I have to explain the difference to anyone, just forget it, you wouldn't understand anyways
By the way TNT dear, we're all out of Margarita mix and the little toothpicks for the hors o'duerves, would you be a dear and pick them up on the way? Can't begin the Forum Party without them
(Now I hope everyone understood my self-depricating humor in this post. I didn't flame back at TNT because I understood and got the humor in his post. Try and see the humor and light side of folks personalities and not the dark and evil in every corner, just a suggestion)
Anabolic Member
Hey Jason and other bros, I have an Idea that me and barbells79 came up with.
Anyway this is the message exactly as I sent it to him in our conversation when he asked what I thought we could do..................
I wish I had the answer. I have one suggestion but I don't think most people would like it. Maybe if we gave all this stuff its own forum like at EF and then we didn't include it on our "view new post" search engine? Then it wouldn't be every where like it is now. I think most people are against a forum like that but at least it will keep it out of the real forums. Plus I kinda like the change of pace once in a while. I just don't like that it is all over and you can find the real threads through all the crap. Let me know what you think. Maybe kev has a good idea since we know how he feels about this.
........................ BTW Kev, I think I figured out your ideaJust an idea. What do you guys think? Maybe put the general stuff there too?
Canes...TNT You guys crack me up
Last edited by RON; 04-22-2002 at 07:21 PM.
AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
Yeah - TNT, you had definitely watch out - if I remember correctly, Primodonna is Queen - and if you wish to live a long and healthy life I will most cordially and collegially suggest that you remember that!
Canes - you can still be empress tho - as long as you arent passing out foot longs (or any other kid of hot dog) at the party
Banned
No commentOriginally posted by CYCLEON
Yeah - TNT, you had definitely watch out - if I remember correctly, Primodonna is Queen - and if you wish to live a long and healthy life I will most cordially and collegially suggest that you remember that!
Canes - you can still be empress tho - as long as you arent passing out foot longs (or any other kid of hot dog) at the party
Scamming Traitor
i guess this will be my final post on this subject. the opps sex forum is a sore spot on this otherwise respectable board. as jason said, i dont want someone to come here and that be the first thing they see. nope, get rid of it once and for all. E.O.D.
Banned
And I love you too BigGunz, and folks you have no idea how hard it was for him to do this. He has had to live a lie for way too long.Originally posted by BigGunz
And to Canes....Peace, bro.
BigGunz
This is thread which has I guess turned off-topic now, and maybe some will see this again as "those fags taking over a thread again", but if you only knew the burden this man has been living with, if you only knew.
Now I can say with full confidence and love that BigGunz is my man.
Scamming Traitor
big gunz, my hats off to you bro. but, who you choose to live your life with is has no bearing on anything that you do here. you are a part of the family, that is the bottom line. you will get nothing but support from us. be yourself, be proud of who you are, hold your head up, and be damned to anyone who has a problem with it. you are still bigkevs bro, dont sweat it!
Anabolic Member
Wow.....That must be a load off you too canes. I never even would have guessed your guys was a long-standing member like BigGunz.Originally posted by Canes4Ever
Now I can say with full confidence and love that BigGunz is my man.
BigGunz, Bro I personally will think of you just as I did before I knew. Good luck with the military. I don't think we could even imagine the guts that this takes. BTW nice to see you back around bro.
Last edited by RON; 04-22-2002 at 08:13 PM.
Scamming Traitor
heyyyyyyyyyyy, wait a minute! i didnt realize that caines and big gunz where together! you sly dogs!
Banned
Hey Ron,Originally posted by RON
Wow.....That must be a load off you too canes. I never even would have guessed your guys was a long-standing member like BigGunz.
BigGunz, Bro I personally will think of you just as I did before I knew. Good luck with the military. I don't think we could even imagine the guts that this takes. BTW nie to see you back around bro.
BigGunz and I came to the board after we had already been together for 5 months. He still lives in Kansas and is planning to move to Miami as soon as he can get out of the military.
We met on another forum back last July and started talking by phone in August, he visited me for Thanksgiving and the next 9 days, and trust me they were the best 10 days of my life.
I love him very much, this was extraordinary of him to be able to do. Especially on this thread, for if not here where else? His burden has been so very hard. He and I have been reading (over the phone) through the threads together as we do most nights,
and this thread moved him so much that he felt he needed to say something.
Our love of each other transcends into other mutual enjoyments. We both have a love of lifting and bodybuilding. I personally can't wait to have him with me, to help push me in dieting and lifting at the gym, and for me to push him back.
There are so many other things I wish I could say but I will now cease and desist, as this is getting WAAAAAAAAAAY off topic of this thread.
Senior Member
Okay, this board is by far the best I have come in contact with. The people on here are awesome, and the mod's, well they do their jobs very well. We have a responsibility as members to police ourselves. There should be a level of pride that goes into the posts we place on this board. People only know you by the posts you place...I read over my posts carefully, because I want to represent myself well. I agreed with BigKev, and I'm not brown nosing here, about being respectful in our threads, and keeping them "focused" on appropriate subject matter. If we as a board can act in a mature fashion, then there should be no problem with an "opposite sex" forum, but lately we have shown that we cannot. Whether or not the Administration chooses to give the board another chance to prove itself, is up to them. Either way, this board rocks.
Banned
Yes Kev, Big Gunz and I are life-partners. It has taken everything in me to keep it quiet for this long.Originally posted by bigkev
heyyyyyyyyyyy, wait a minute! i didnt realize that caines and big gunz where together! you sly dogs!
Senior Member
Hey Canes, glad you two can finally be yourselves! I know it had been rough
Last edited by broncojosh; 04-22-2002 at 08:44 PM.
Banned
Well...as usual I'd like to end this thread by saying I'm sorry to those I offended. I really wanted to keep my mouth shut but just couldn't stand it any longer. You know I really like you guys and girls and I appreciate all you've done for me. And I enjoy helping you anyway I can. And I don't think of you as brown-nosers. And I don't think badly of the MODS. I know they work hard.
TNT - It kind of hurts that you say your pleased to tell me to leave and to shove it. But you and I have not talked on a personal level before so...whatever. I pm'd ya with an apology...but no need to reply. I know your busy.
BigGunz - I'm glad something good came out of this thread. I wish you and Canes the best. I do not like the fact that I remind you of your ex brother-in-law. I really try to be a good guy. But my mouth does get in the way sometimes.
peace.
Banned
Its still rough because the military is still holding us back. I love this country and what it does for us and our freedoms, but sometimes it isn't always right, this is one of those times. People should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit, as long as they are consenting adults and don't cause anyone else harm.Originally posted by broncojosh
Hey Caines, glad you two can finally be yourselves! I know it had been rough
Retired Admin
Originally posted by broncojosh
If we as a board can act in a mature fashion, then there should be no problem with an "opposite sex" forum, but lately we have shown that we cannot. Whether or not the Administration chooses to give the board another chance to prove itself, is up to them. Either way, this board rocks.
that is exactly what the problem is. If everyone can say that and understand it, then there is a legitimate purpose for the board. Otherwise, we can just get rid of it. Less boards are less headaches. The reason I made the over 30 board recently is because I saw the desire for it to be used appropriately. So this means the members that have been here forever need to help us keep everything the way it is suppose to be with the opposite sex board when a newbie wants to know everyone's favorite sexual position with barnyard animals.Without participation and cooperation of the rules by members, it will be pointless. I want the viewpoint that is decided upon to be as well agreed upon as the no source posting and no flaming rules.
Retired Moderator
Wow . . .
Who'da thunk that the thread would have taken the turns that it has?
Dizzy, everything is cool. Besides, after the last several posts, I don't want to be misinterpreted when it comes to the notion of shoving things where the sun don't shine.
Canes, you bitch, have you been two-timing me?Ah, well, I guess I should give you up to BigGunz. I could never[ love a man who doesn't know how to spell hors d'ouerves correctly. (It's okay, bro, I realize that it was just a reversal of letters. I do it all teh time. Make that all the time, since that is my most common misspelling on computers.)
By the way, some of us have known about BigGunz and Caines for a long time - not just where they're coming from, but that they are a couple. I know both of these guys, and have always been amazed at how well they're on the same wave length.
Damn, this thread is getting better than Dynasty. (Yeah, I know I'm giving away my age with that one. I could have said Melrose Place, but that show didn't have a queen and an empress.)
Anyway, I do not yet know how Jason & the board management will resolve the Opp Sex Forum issue, but I see that it will be done with the good humor that has come to mark A.R.
Quick note to everyone else: Yes, I occasionally see the compliments you've made about my posts, although I generally don't acknowledge them. I don't want them to go to my head, or to let my ego get to me, but I do appreciate your comments.
Think I'll head over to bb.com and hype our Over 30 board . . .
The One & Only
Originally posted by TNT
Terinox (hairiest back in the western hemisphere!)
TNT, it always makes me feel good to know that you're always thinking of me...in some way
Boy did this thread get off topic, and I can't believe I read (almost) the whole thing, everyeones opinions alone was quite worth the read! I feel like I'm really part of something here
BigGunz and Canes, I had no idea! (Well I knew about Canes
But it's great to know it's working out for you two, and the best of luck!!!
As for Dizzy and his original comments, well I don't want to get into that whole can of worms again, but you all made some good points. And I actually kind of like what RON said. Create a forum, you can even call it the "Bullshit Forum" and let people say whatever the hell they want there, don't even put in any Mods, and let people access that forum "AT THEIR OWN RISK" I'm pretty sure that most of us "senior" members would stay a good mile or two away from that forum (if it were created)!
I just keep remembering how the forum was back in the day (refering to Nov 2001) and well...what can I say, it was perfect! Let's keep it that way!!!
Senior Member
Originally posted by TNT
Who'da thunk that the thread would have taken the turns that it has?
Canes, you bitch, have you been two-timing me?
Banned
Me two-time ? Moi ?Originally posted by TNT
Canes, you bitch, have you been two-timing me?
Banned
Yes TNT has known for over two months I believe. He's been a true friend to me and BigGunz, and one that means a lot too both of us.Originally posted by TNT
By the way, some of us have known about BigGunz and Caines for a long time - not just where they're coming from, but that they are a couple. I know both of these guys, and have always been amazed at how well they're on the same wave length.
Banned
BaSe the boy was in Wyoming and his name was Mathew Shepard. The Army boy Iremember the case but don't remember the name.Originally posted by BaSe
Big Gunz, it must be hard for you to come out like this, u have alot of courage, i rember when i was in army a couple years ago, there was alot of openly anti gay remarks, it must be hard for you, i payed no attention to this until i heard about the incident in the 101, when a kid was beatin to death with a bat by someone who was supposed to be gaurding him while he slept, because it became known he was gay, at this time i also heard about the college student who was beatin to death, not sure on the state, think it was arizona? but im sure you heard about the poor kid in the 101, that must be incredibly tough for you , i know from that moment on i never saw the kiddin around the same
Both are incomprehensible crimes that defy my ability to understand.
Banned
That is what we have been trying to say, that we have faced these kind of crimes for years and all we want is LEGAL protection so that this cannot happen to us anymore.Originally posted by BaSe
the people who took theri lives are monsters, they were just kids, they didnt do anything to anyone, horrible
Associate Member
again all I can say is WOW.....what a thread!!
Oh and one more thing about having the "enter at your own risk" forum. If something like that was to be created which I doubt, I also think it would be a good idea to have it to where if you post there your post count doesn't go up.
I say this because I'm seeing more and more people racking up hella posts in no time with these forums. Hell even i'm now a senior member because of them. And I have nothing against this at all, but from a newbie stand point, I remember when I first came here the only thing I looked at to tell status was number of posts. Am I way off basis here or does that make any sense?
Senior Member
Look, it's cool that you guys are life-partners and I have no problem with people who live alternative lifestyles. I believe to each their own.
Canes: I don't quite get what you're trying to say by
"we have faced these kind of crimes for years and all we want is LEGAL protection so that this cannot happen to us anymore."
I think what happened was wrong but it's no worse than it happening to a straight guy. No flame, but a crime is a crime and I've never heard of somebody going free just cuz they killed a gay guy. Maybe I misunderstood you. If so, my bad. You may not have some of the same rights that straight people do, but times are changing and hopefully they'll change their biased views towards gay/lesbian people.
Anabolic Member
Yeah, can a member's status be determined by length of memebrship as opposed to the number of posts? Or perhaps a combination of the two? I won't mention any names but there have been some recent members that have posted hundreds of posts in just a few days and weeks and are listed as senior members already. I don't want anyone looking to them for advice about gear, supplements, or diet if most of their info is about (it's going to be mentioned again) penis size.Originally posted by BigD
again all I can say is WOW.....what a thread!!
Oh and one more thing about having the "enter at your own risk" forum. If something like that was to be created which I doubt, I also think it would be a good idea to have it to where if you post there your post count doesn't go up.
I say this because I'm seeing more and more people racking up hella posts in no time with these forums. Hell even i'm now a senior member because of them. And I have nothing against this at all, but from a newbie stand point, I remember when I first came here the only thing I looked at to tell status was number of posts. Am I way off basis here or does that make any sense?
Retired Moderator
Enter-at-Own-Risk Forum
C'mon already, guys . . . You can't be serious about this one.
Let's see if I understand this . . . Board management has established a policy that certain behaviors are unacceptable at A.R. They include flaming, source posting, and comments against specific groups or individuals - those which I have generically labeled "comments that hurt."
As you may be aware, some boards do have a set-aside forum (sometimes called the "Flame Forums") which is the only place that such behaviors are acceptable. Is anyone saying that we should have the same thing? That it would not be hypocritical to say, "A.R. is gonna be the classiest, most supportive and mutually respectful act in town, but you can dump that kind of crap in a separate forum?"
Does anyone see the inconsistency in that?
Boys, I hate to tell ya, there is only one option: You need to learn civility. At some point in your lives, you need to get out of the mode in which the waist line of your pants is three inches below the waist line of your underwear. Outrageous behavior is acceptable in few circumstances in society (just ask a dude who tries to apply for the everage executive position with multiple ear rings - what is acceptable in some quarters is not acceptable in others - that may not sound fair, but it's reality).
Moreover, a separate forum in which flaming or sexist comments is allowed would not simply transcend the realm of good taste, it would transcend the realm of law. What you may consider a flame, the recipient may consider to be libel, and he or she would have a good case in court against A.R. and its management. Why? Because at that point, the board would have endorsed the notion of flaming. And, as you know, we do not endorse it.
I've always found it fascinating that when a flame fest starts, someone in the crowd will usually say (sometimes with tongue in cheek), "Why can't we all just get along?"
I won't be that naive. I can think of some people around here that I would easily consider jackasses. But don't ask me to name names, because that would do no good. It would be a negative, not a positive. And I am committed to doing [i]everything[/i) in a positive manner short of preventing someone from being hurt by dangerous information (and even that is positive from a preventive standpoint). Many of you have seen Road House, so you now the Patrick Swayze rap: Be nice. Period.
As far as behavior on the board goes, we can set parameters and say that this will be a supportive community - an information resource above anything else, but a place where we can encourage each other rather than trash each other. This ain't the schoolyard, kiddies, and if you've never learned it before, it's time to get it together and realize that even in an AS-based modality you can act your age instead of your shoe size.
If you can't play the game according to the rules, there are plenty of other AS-oriented schoolyards you can play in. But if you respect the rules as we should respect each other, we're glad you're here - you help make this the best board around, and it gets better all the time.
_____________________
P.S. Hey, bad_man! Been a while - nice to see you back, bro.
Associate Member
Sorry TNT, I actually wasn't trying to promote the "enter at your own risk" forum more as i was trying to ask a question about member status and the number of posts.
So let me restate what I was trying to say. Is there any way other then the amount of posts to determine member status?
The One & Only
Oh Oh so now your flaming my idea??????????
Just kidding, it was just a suggestion, cause it seemed that so many people WANT a forum like that, but like you said, this board belongs to an "owner" and he will run the board the way he sees fit. And apparantly, it's for the good of the board and it's members, which is obviously what we want!
Like I mentioned before, I remember how the board was back in late last year (Nov/Dec) and it was just great back then. Some things have changed, but the general "goodness" of the members is still their, and it still feels like a community. The only thing that really has changed is the shit people are talking, and hopefully, people will see this is serious, and they will clean up their act a little. Even if you DON'T like it, I know damn well you can bare with it, SO BARE WITH IT! Save your sexual comments, your prejudice and hatred for the other 2-3 boards your currently a member of!
Also, people do, including myself, occasionally blurt out something that is inappropriate or rude, and from what I've seen, almost 100% of the time, the member either A, appoligizes about what they did or said OR B, they delete the post which was offensive! LETS KEEP IT THIS WAY!!!
Now, on a completely and totally irrelevant issue...GO MONTREAL CANADIANS!!!
Last edited by Terinox; 04-23-2002 at 11:00 AM.
Retired Moderator
Not really, except when it comes to Vet status (which is bestowed by the administration - but not by the mods - based on a person's demonstrated knowledge and experience in AS). The usual catagories of junior member-member-senior member are based on post count. (Please, guys, don't start bumping your counts artificially, or the powers-that-be may change the number requirements on you.)Originally posted by BigD
So let me restate what I was trying to say. Is there any way other then the amount of posts to determine member status?
Incidentally, this is not just the case with A.R., nor even with AS forums, but with any board or forum that uses the Vbulletin software. The names may change from board to board (what we call junior members are sometimes called newbies elsewhere), the number requirements may change from board to board (depending on how the system administrator sets them), but the prniciples are generally the same.
____________________
Now, a note to Terinox . . .
Actually, when I made my comments, I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular. The flame-board idea had been tossed around by a few people over time, but it's just an idea I'm against. So, as you said, BARE [sic] with it! On second thought, I don't know if I could stand you bare.
By the way, I agree about the Canadiens. Besides, Montréal is about to lose the Expos anyway, although they brought it on themselves with a half-empty stadium...
Associate Member
The Opposite sex forum was actually one of my faves...
Yea , i realize thats not what the board here is about... Understood. I did actually enjoy some of the stories and learned some stuff to boot there though. It was a cool place for us to interact outside of the "on topic" stuff. I got to know some members better as people. Does that not make us stronger as a community? I could do without "how big is your cock" posts and shit like that, but the dating and realtionships threads were really good, imo...
Why not rename the forum, and let the genuine posts where people actually need help stay, and maybe get a mod or two to police the forum after some rock solid rules are layed down. I'd do whatever I could to help...
-Nice
Banned
Vegas Kid,Originally posted by Vegas Kid
Look, it's cool that you guys are life-partners and I have no problem with people who live alternative lifestyles. I believe to each their own.
Canes: I don't quite get what you're trying to say by
"we have faced these kind of crimes for years and all we want is LEGAL protection so that this cannot happen to us anymore."
I think what happened was wrong but it's no worse than it happening to a straight guy. No flame, but a crime is a crime and I've never heard of somebody going free just cuz they killed a gay guy. Maybe I misunderstood you. If so, my bad. You may not have some of the same rights that straight people do, but times are changing and hopefully they'll change their biased views towards gay/lesbian people.
Thanks for your answer, as for an answer to your views I don't believe I
live an *alternative lifestyle*, because they way I live is normal to me,
the way you and other straight people live to me is an alternative
lifestyle. Its just perspective.
As for the crimes, I feel that that are not just ordinary crimes, but should
be classified as HATE CRIMES. Everyday there are gay young men who are
assaulted and LIVE but their assailants escape harder judgement because
their crimes are not at present in many states classified as HATE CRIMES.
Vegas kid, if you don't feel that gay & lesbians don't have the same and
equal rights that you have, you are sorely mistaken. If you wish to speak
about it at greater length I'll be happy to discuss it by PM.
Donating Member
I have been away a few days off the board dealing with other issues .......as my post at AR have dropped off to zero......
Canes4ever and bigguns happy 4 you.........
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