Q. about contest carb up

[Iron Queen]

Everyone I talk to has a different theory on how they carb up for a show. Some people start Wed. for a Saturday show, others start Thurs. Recently I've seen another bber (who will be a LW -mens - go through his contest prep). Wed. he started his carb up and was told to take in a little over 1100 CARBS and approx 200 protein on wed... thurs was down to 370 carbs and 220 p. and I'm not sure about Friday yet, but I know they'll be going out to dinner and eating cheesecake from what I've been told as part of the carb up.

What is everyones opinion on loading more on Wed. then going down every day after that? I know it takes a little over 2 days for the carbs to really hit you and get the full effect from that but I'm curious to everyones opinion.

Also.... what about your CHOICES of carbs. What does everyone use in their carb up, especially the day of the show, early in the a.m, and backstage. I know so many people that do pancakes, bacon, eggs in a.m, then snickers or pie filling backstage... stuff like that. Simple/complex carbs? Whats your thoughts? I'd really really appreciate any feedback on this. I'm about 8 weeks out and want to get everything together early this year and be a bit fuller/more vascular on stage this time around.

--IQ

[MIKE_XXL]

First of all, you are a woman, so be carefull with the advice males are giving you, because unfortunatly it's a little bit differnet for us guys, and it's less likely we'll spil over then a woman.

What i am writing here is with a thought of you being a women:

I would start of on thursday morning, i would do a decarb workout, a whole body work out done in a circuit fashion, right after the workout i would consume high sugar protein drink, like mix of Dextrose and maltodextrin, maybe even another drink 1.5 hours later, at this point you insulin sensitivity is SO high that you can get away with eating just about anything, i would say the first 24 hours are the most important...both drinks about 50gm of carbs, after that i would switch to solid foods but still high glycimic, like maybe cereal now take in 2 meals like that 30-40 gm of carbs, and after that switch to potatos or yams at about 20-30 gm of carbs par meal, you want to eat about every 2 hours but if you are still full from your past meal DO NOT force it in. By the end of the day i would further reduce the carbs. and put a little bit of fat in there. Walnuts work great here. Now on friday morning i would just go with potatos or yams again up untill about 18 hours out from you show, at which point you should start fat loading (the cheesecake comes in right now), the fat will increase the amount of glucose your body can store, by increasing the ATP production on a cellular level, and giving your body more energy to push the glucose into the muscle cells. Once you started fat loading you want to cut the water and suq-q water you might have will be eliminated through diuresis and drive into the muscle cells with all the carbs being forced there, at this point you should start looking drier and drier hour by hour...As for saturday, well you can play it safe or go for it, i am the go for it kind of guy, and don't mind screwing up in the last minute just to learn something, so i would say a great big cheescake again...YUMMY...but id you want to play it safe, just do the potato and chicken and walnuts thing, every 2 hours...Good luck at your show, if you have any more questions, just PM me and i 'll try to help you out...when is your show...???...


...by the way great abs and you might want to shoot Primo a PM...she looked real good at her show...

XXL

[silverfox]

You should talk to primo or I beleive Dr. D has trained a few women for contest as well. Personally i find fat loading on friday works well, but that was for me.

[primodonna]

I started loading Thursday...if you can call it loading

300g of carbs...same on Friday and could not get a pump to save my life...all of it was complex except Friday night i had a piece of cake before i tried to sleep...whoop-de-doo

I wasn't where i wanted to be at that point so i decided to play it safe for the most part...if i had looked better, i would have taken a more Mike XXL approach and gone crazy

A friend of mine who was top 5 last year at the USA's doesn't load until Friday...and only uses complex

What did you do last time? Maybe you only need to change one thing instead of doing something completely different...i haven't seen pix but your abs look like you know what you are doing

[dieslgrl]

girl... whatever you do.. DO NOT load with rice or oatmeal.. too much water... I am rethinking my strategies for next week as well... I am pretty sure I will take the conservative approach again, but well.... we will see how I look and feel come Wednesday... I am keeping my carbs at nothing until then so hopefully I can take full advantage of that insulin sensitivity...

How important would you say ALA is? would it really make that big of a difference?

At this point before a show, (while carb loading)-- having fat AND carbs in the same meal will not hurt you?

and just be careful if you are eating out the night before... they salt EVERYTHING! I don't care what they say... there WILL be salt on that meat at one point or another.. DO NOT TRUST THE COOKS! they lie! (I used to work at a restraunt) either have it poached in water, or eat your own meat and have the yam and cake I guess... just seems a bit too risky for me...

dg

[MIKE_XXL]

Originally posted by dieslgrl
girl... whatever you do.. DO NOT load with rice or oatmeal.. too much water... I am rethinking my strategies for next week as well... I am pretty sure I will take the conservative approach again, but well.... we will see how I look and feel come Wednesday... I am keeping my carbs at nothing until then so hopefully I can take full advantage of that insulin sensitivity...

How important would you say ALA is? would it really make that big of a difference?

At this point before a show, (while carb loading)-- having fat AND carbs in the same meal will not hurt you?

and just be careful if you are eating out the night before... they salt EVERYTHING! I don't care what they say... there WILL be salt on that meat at one point or another.. DO NOT TRUST THE COOKS! they lie! (I used to work at a restraunt) either have it poached in water, or eat your own meat and have the yam and cake I guess... just seems a bit too risky for me...

dg

In my personal opinion ALA does nothing for increasing insulin sensitivity, i tried it 3 times and i don't think it make any differance...no if you go with slin, that's the real deal, however i can't recomend that because it sould be fatal...

For first 12 hours of carb up i would go stricly with carbs, after that i would start adding some fats, and if you decide to go and fat load for last 18 hours the most important thing is to CUT the water and the combinatin of fats and carbs should be very specific, they should be long chain fatty acids and simple sugars...dry cake works great as well as cheescake, cream filled donuts (that's what i'll be using next time) well you gat the point, and good luck to all you ladies...XXL

[Iron Queen]

Originally posted by MIKE_XXL


In my personal opinion ALA does nothing for increasing insulin sensitivity, i tried it 3 times and i don't think it make any differance...no if you go with slin, that's the real deal, however i can't recomend that because it sould be fatal...

For first 12 hours of carb up i would go stricly with carbs, after that i would start adding some fats, and if you decide to go and fat load for last 18 hours the most important thing is to CUT the water and the combinatin of fats and carbs should be very specific, they should be long chain fatty acids and simple sugars...dry cake works great as well as cheescake, cream filled donuts (that's what i'll be using next time) well you gat the point, and good luck to all you ladies...XXL

Mike....
You're kidding? you said "cream filled donuts?" LOL. Can I kiss you now or later? LOL. OMG Krispy Kreme here I come!!

So with the carb up, you're saying first 12 hrs carb up? So start that Thursday morning with foods such as sweet potatoes, rice cakes, potatoes. Then about 18 hrs before the show start fat loading.. Examples of foods are nuts, peanut butter, steak, cheesecake, what else? Man, do I feel like the last few days of the contest prep is one big cheat day and that I'd for sure ruin my body for the day of the show. But I guess I need to get that out of my head real fast. This is really weirding me out and I'm so glad you guys replied bc this makes my question a lot clearer than before.

The new question now is: ****WHAT foods could be listed during the carb up, and then the other foods for the fat loading process to really make sure it all works. ********

Diesl says no rice? Everyone else's opinion? I've used brown rice my whole contest prep as my main carb source...

I love this board, you all rock. Thanks for the opinions.

IQ

[MIKE_XXL]

IQ:
Give me a day or so and i will get back to you with a really detailed description of the carb and fat load.
The best thing you can do is make sure you are ready 1-2 weeks out of the show, so you can do a test run of your carb and fat load (or at least once week before the show, that gives you enough time to make slight adjustments to make it work better), i myself found out i was alergic to peanut butter 2 weeks out of the show, thank god i didn't fat load with that...

XXL

[Dr. Derek]

IMO Everyone is very very different, you have to find what works for you. I have done the traditional loading process several times, but this time I did the fat load. I'm not a big advocate of low carb diets, but I know they are being used in the BB community all the time now. If you have been on a low carb diet for 8 weeks, less than 125 grams a day, I dont think you need to conduct any type of carb depletion, if you have been doing your workouts and cardio correctly, you should already be depleted big time. IMO it would take a person a week or more to carb up and compete at thier fullest potential. Carb loading/ fat loading is all about the risks your willing to take. A more conservative approach would be a traditonal carb load, depending on activity level and body comp, 350 grams - 800 grams of carbs for two days, with limited water intake. H2O is crucial as this plays a major role in glycogen tranportation to your muscle cells, to much and you may spill, to little and your not full enough. In the past I would rather come in dry and a little flat, than spill over, but as I gain weight and get heavier I lean toward the more full look. Now the more radical approach to this process would be depletion or slight depletion if you have been already on a low carb diet, all the way up to friday mid day, then you would start to fat load, not cutting you water until 6-12 hours out. I did this with a female client of mine this year and she looked just OK. I think that I took her water away to soon around 10 hours out, she did not drink anything. She was not as full as she could have been do to the fact that the glycogen was not effeciently transported to muscle cells.

It is all hit and miss, there are just so many factors that play roles in this process that it is hard to nail down. I suggest that you be as lean as you want to be two to three weeks out and run trial runs to find out what works best for you. Good luck

[primodonna]

Originally posted by Iron Queen

Diesl says no rice? Everyone else's opinion? I've used brown rice my whole contest prep as my main carb source...

IQ

If you are going to go the traditional load route, i wouldn't use any carb sources other than the ones you have been using throughout your prep

[wild-one]

I start loading on Wednesday w/ a carb up in the 6th meal, then thurs. I have sweet potato in every meal, frid. I have grapefruit in every meal, once I cut water @ 1 pm frid. I start w/ simple dry carbs such as frosted flakes, white bread...nothing like having a peanut butter & honey sandwich on white bread after all that dieting ...saturday is more of the same..simple carbs....honey, chocolate, licorese, I've even done balance bars, lol.

Can someone please explain how and why the fat-loading works, I've heard of it before but i'd like to understand why it works and what it's doing.

[dieslgrl]

I have heard from too many top individuals NOT to load with any kind of rice or oatmeal... it can make you watery.... I don't know how big of a difference it will make, but I'd stay on the safe side and choose the options you already lined up... ie. yams, cheesecake and what-not.

take it or leave it honey, I am sure you will do fine with whatever you choose..

dg

[MIKE_XXL]

In resting position, your body prefers fat as a fuel source over the carbs, so if you are just sitting around, you generaly tend to use fat for fuel. Fat loading work by suplying your body with energy to produce more ATP, which is a fuel requered for driving the carbs fats and protein into the muscle cells. When you have dieted for so long, and your body fat percentage is very low, you body doesn't have enought fat for production of ATP to properly drive all the carbs you are feeding it into muscle cells. Now by introducing fats into a body that has been carbed up for a day or so and it saturated with glucose just waiting to be transported into the cells, now you have all the energy to produce the ATP and get all your sugar into all the right places. I think i covered it all, there is a more sientific explanation of all of this, but for now i will skip it, i think this says it all...enjoy folks....

To book personal consultations and contest prep advice please call me at (519)...-.... and ask for Mr.XXL...

.....XXL

[berry]

if you are asking this question of depleting i bet u are not 100%ripped yet,if u have any doubts go zero for 4 days,maybe a steak here and there,carb up very slowly and cut water at least 24 hours out,if u are still flat the morning of the show well eat all u can ,and anything y can,last yera i did 7 shows and this is more or less what i did,regards

[MIKE_XXL]

Ok, what Berry says dosn't work with me, i can't just eat everything, every thing i do is very calculated and base on at least some scientific data or fary tails of bodybuilders, never less it's all planed out i stick to the plan, i find if i diviate from the plan at the end, NOTHIG good ever comes out of it.
But anyway here are my recomendations:

6:00am thursday - wake up have 1 apple and a little bite of chicken
the apple will introduce sugar to your system and because you bady is relying on fat for fuel at this point, you want to make sure you are burning glucose again as a main fuel before completing you decarb workout.

7:00am decarb workout i do circuit training, my whole body done about 4 times...1 set of each, followed by another (ex, squads, bench, rows, leg curls, shoulder press, pull downs to the back, calfs, curls, push downs, abs, deadlifts, leg extentions, flyes, side latterals, shrugs, forarms) now that would be one circuit 15-20 reps with about 50% max weight, you don't want to get sore because that will only slow down the carb up process, no slow negatives either. Now do this 4 or 5 times and you are done. rest about 5 min between circuits. Tid Bit: only the bodyparts worked imidiatly before the carb up will be carbed up properly and supercompensated.

8:30-9:00 am right after workout, liquid carbs (maltodextrin and dextrose mix) and whey isolate

11:00 repeat liquid carb meal

1:00 switch to simple sugars but in a solid form. cereal is a good example here (must be low fat)

3:00 to be on a safer side switch to potatos and/or yams for carbs and chicken

5:00 repeat the above

7:00 reapeat the above and add a little bit of fat, i like walnuts here.

9:00 and 11:00 meals are the same as the above.

if you wake up hungry in the middle of the night have alittle meal like the one above.

Friday morning:

6:00 am potato or yam and chicken and some walnuts

8:30, 11:00, 1:30 and 4:00 are all the same

Assuming the prejudging is on saturday at around 11:00am, cut the water at 5:00 (18 hours out) and start fat loading with a 6:00 meal.

6:30 pm once again to be on a safer side i would go with steak and and potato or yam

9:00 and 11:30 are the same and if you wake up hungry in the middle of the night, well you knao what to do.

SATURDAY, the day of the show.

6:00am fat loadin continues with any fat sources that are dry (nothing with high water content) cream filled donuts, cheescake, dry cakes, peanut butter on rice cakes, chocolate...etc...must be fats and sugars together, or go to the breakfast buffet down the street and have a great big breakfast, pancakes with syrup, toast with butter anything your heart disires...get full, real full and watch and wait as your body looks better and better every hour.

9:00 you can repeat if you want just no to the same extand, do not want that bloaded look right...

This will all work for anybody that is already very lean and ready for their show, if you feel like you have a few more pound to loose this might not be as effective, however i did basicly program like this for my last show, i still needed to loose a couple of pound of body fat to be trully ready, and all of this worked just fine.
So be ready 1 or 2 weeks out and give it a try, make slight adjustments if neccessary.

I am attaching a pic from my last show, to show you all that it works big time, i know i am not 100% on, but as i said it's the bodyfat not conditioning.

[williampowers]

BodyFat? Rocked up kid good work
And thanks for the advice before PR it worked bro you the man.
Next Year after bulking from Sept to January I contemplating a competition you can bet I will reach out for your advice.

[dam225]

Any of you use high doses of ALA during your carb up?

D

[MIKE_XXL]

I have tried the ALA, but i find it does nothing for me, now Slin works wonders......XXL

[Dr. Derek]

well tell us when you introduce slin. that was my problem last show. I used to much to often and I started to hold water. I looked better the day before

[MIKE_XXL]

First of, the Slin i used was Humulog R (I could not find any Humulin), that's why i am shooting it every 4 hours, the active life of Humulog R is 4 hours.

Thursday morning after my decarb work out i did 8iu, 4 hours later i did 5iu, and 4 hours later i did 4iu.

Friday morning i did 5iu, 4 hours later 4iu and 4iu one more time 4 hour after that.

Saturday, the day of the show, i don't think i took any first thing in the morning, i weight in at 9:00am and had 3 hours before going on the stage, so i took 5iu and just set there and ate some chocolate bars, rice crispies, glucose tablets whatever i had in my cooler, as you can see i used it quite often but low to moderate dosage...XXL

[bigedd3105]

How much fat do you consume when fat loading is there a certain % of bodyweight or anything? How do you not consume any water when carb and fat loading? How much would be too much water? Help would be appreaciated.

[MIKE_XXL]

Originally posted by bigedd3105
How much fat do you consume when fat loading is there a certain % of bodyweight or anything? How do you not consume any water when carb and fat loading? How much would be too much water? Help would be appreaciated.

To be honest i don't really count the fat grams, but i would say around 30-45 gm per meal, i eat till i am full and then stop untill i get hungry again, make sure not to eat to soon. I consum Water through the carb up, but once you start fat loading you MUST CUT THE WATER or you will look smooth, i've been there once...won't do it again...so besicaly water till 4:00pm on friday as much as you can get down and as much as you want...and start fat loading at 6:00pm....good luck...XXL

[bigedd3105]

Thanx for the help Mike. When fat loading what fat should i use is olive oil or flax ok.

[MIKE_XXL]

Originally posted by bigedd3105
Thanx for the help Mike. When fat loading what fat should i use is olive oil or flax ok.

Hey Bro, are you from London, Ont or London, England ? ...just wondering, i used to live close to London, Ont.

Olive oil and Flax would probably be OK, but i preffer cream filled donuts, pizza and McDonalds...

XXL

[xcelbeyond]

This is a great thread! I'm gonna do a "test run" next week to see how my body reacts. I never had good pre-contest info back in the 80's when I was competing. I can get down to 5% BF (about where I am now) but have trouble getting below that (but do!). I plan on competing next year in the over 50 class.

I'm gonna try mikeXXL's diet outline along with water-load/deplete. Then I'll take some "before" pics. In my "hurry" to lose BF, I dropped about 20-25 lbs, about 15 of that was muscle! But I know how to get that back and muscle memory has been real good to me

xcel

[bigedd3105]

Hey Bro, are you from London, Ont or London, England ? ...just wondering, i used to live close to London, Ont.

No, unfortunatly i'm from London, England.