Quote Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern
Well we are also discussing what is apropriate sentances Not only reality but some ideal society aswell.




Well yes I can walk into any rehab but there are MILLIONS of potsmokers in the us alone. There isnt millions of addicts on rehab centers. Like I said my father is alcoholic, some of my friends are addicts, my sisters husband used to be a dealer back in his criminal past. I am no stranger to rec drugs or rec drug users. From what I know and have seen only like 10% tops gets addicted. Nicotin is the most addictive drug there is. There are plenty of drugs that isnt addictive at all. But anyway I wont get into that because its not a topic for this board(the specifics of drugs that is).
I think there was some study done on those returning from vietnam. Of those that used drugs only 5% or so ended upp adicited. But I have not seen this study myself. Only heard of it.




Most violent crimes are caused by alcohol. Alcohole causes more agression than many other drugs. Using violence as a argument against drugs is not good unless you want a alcohole ban aswell.

Offcourse there are plenty of lowlifes that rob people to get a fix. But they are not the majority of users. Like I said earlier blame the people, not the drug. If a person cant handle a drug he should not use it. If he does use it anyway and **** up he should be sentanced as harshly as possible.



If he hadnt used crack to begin with he hadnt throw the kid of the balcony(that is realy tragic he deserves a LONG sentance). If GM hadnt sold cars alot less people would have been killed in trafic, if marlboro didnt exist alot less people wouldnt have lungcancer ect ect ect. Put the blame where it belongs. On the person doing the act.




So do alot of other buisnessmen. Oil/mining and energy companies kill ALOT of people because of pollution. They know damn well that they are doing it but they still keep on with it.


I am sympathetic to drug and steroid users because we are all in the same boat. Hunted down by laws that treats us like children.
Arrest those that comit crimes. But dont count smoking a joint as a crime because that doesnt hurt anyone.



Same are the laws against many hallucinogens and "party" drugs. We all hate it when people even mention steroids and drugs in the same sentance. But treating all drugs in the same way is equaly shortsighted.

Its not protecting the individual. Its saying "you people dont have a clue whats good for you so let us in the goverment decide".




I am acctualy not defending the drug dealers that exist. I am just defending the right to sell drugs. There is a huge difference betwen the two.
If you missuse that right you should be punished. Regulate it just like alcohole and tobacco. Make it into a legitimate buisness and the crime syndicates will have lost its major cashcow. It is offcourse a semi legit market already with all the doctors writing amphetamine prescriptions to kids with adhd and all the benzos and ssri drugs for all kinds of disorders both real and imagined. The only difference betwen that and a rec drug users(note, not abuser) is that the one going to the doc has a nice paper that allows him to take the drug.



yes I agree with that analogy if the drug dealer is selling dirty, cut down drugs or shitty drugs like pcp and meth.




I got to agree with you there. Swedens most infamous serial killer is allowed to go out on picnics.
But I realy belive that many criminals can change to the better(if I didnt belive that we might aswell start executing ALL criminals because they will never be a good part of society). Thats why I dont belive in jail punishment unless for crimes that is so severe that the person doing the crime is a real danger to the public.



Sure I would want vengance. If someone mugged me I would want to break every bone in there body. Thats why I should not be the one to decide the punishment because if I where my taste for revenge would cripple the man for life even though that is a punishment far worse than the original crime. Vengance is always out of proportion. Thats why the legal system has to be unbiased. It should however go easy on those that for instance takes personal revenge on a rape. Like if I had a daugher and she got raped and I found that shithead and cut his dick off and crippled him for life. I should not get a big punishment for that.



So who is the victim when I am pushing a needle into my quad and injecting myself with testosterone?? That is certainly a crime.
Personal freedom is more important than protection against all possible evils.
I think we could go back and forth here for the rest of the year. we obvioulsy have very different views on law and order. While I seem to be orientated towards a much more hard line approach geared towards balancing the legal system in favour of the victim or innocent citizen you seem to favour personal freedoms over the protection of the majority. I consider this a very shelfish attitude but you are entitled to it.

You still seem to have this image of a drug dealer as a nice person but they are not. They sell addictive drugs with 2 purposes:

1. to make money
2. In the hope you will become addicted and buy more

The sad end is that people who do get caught up in this web (and I can assure it is far more than you seem to think) end up hurting the innocent in society. There is no difference between the drug dealer who sells dodgy gear and good gear because both are as harmfull or potentially harmful as each other.

While it's been interesting exchanging views with you I sincerely hope that people like you never get to make sentencing policy. Our world seems to be turning into a more dangerous place every day with the law doing very little to protect the rights of the innocent.

S