Lean mass cycle advice needed.

[vitamind]

Hi all.
I'm looking for some advice on a lean mass cycle (trying to minimize bloat/harden up a bit while still gaining some size). Firstly (as I know these questions will come) my stats/history:

31 years old. 197lbs, 5'9", prolly about 9-11% bodyfat (haven't tested that in a while), lift 5 times a week, cardio about 3-5 times a week for 30-40 minutes. Been lifting since...hell...16 years old, steadily with no longer than a 2 week break at any point. Like everyone tho you hit the eventual plateau, and without extreme actions (diet, intensity, or AS) you just kinda stay there.

Anywho this will be my 3rd (real) cycle.
1st was 750mg/wk of sust250 for 12 weeks with 5 weeks of Winny at the end. Got good results, gained about 21lbs, kept about 15 (with proper PCT). 2nd cycle was SUPPOSE to be more of a cutting cycle with Test Prop and EQ (with a bit of winny at the end again). This cycle actually bloated me like crazy, my face looking something akin to a pumpkin....and my ass something akin to a pin cushion (with all the freakin' injections). Also of note (and warning) when I cut out the EQ out at the end, the strait Test Prop injections were damn near on the verge of unbearable. Injection didn't hurt but about 3 hours later I couldn't even bend over to tie my shoes (seriously). Almost went to the doctor, as I thought something might be seriously wrong with my ass/leg. I did the proper PCT, gaining about 12lbs and keeping most of it...I'd say about 9lbs.
Oh, also of note, I used 20mg Nolvadex/day during both these cycles and Liquidex during the 2nd part of the 2nd one when the bloat machine was in high gear.
But onto my question:

I want to run a good lean mass cycle (with minimal bloat). I've done TONS of research over the past few weeks and am pretty much just running in circles at this point. I know you should always run a Test and since sust250 worked better than that *shudder* test prop, I was gonna stick with that at 500 - 750mg per week (along with Nolv too and prolly Liquidex). I know Test isn't a cutter so I was looking for something with that. I've read good things (and scary things) about Trenbolone. Also Turanabol as well as Anavar (both relatively mild orals but ok lean muscle builders). What about Primo, again, all I know is what I've read. Winny IMO never really did great things for me. Yeah, it made me a bit harder and a bit more pumped, but not by as much as it really shoulda at that price. Any tips (and dosages) would be greatly appriacted. Thanks guys!

[jayheero]

for a lean mass cycle i like test prop and tren and maybe some eq in there that looks like a good cycle with winstrol or anavar it becomes to much of a cutter i like this cycle.

[vitamind]

Thanks Jayheero. Anyone have any other thoughts?

[MrMent1on]

let me try to make this short.. no AAS is a cutter!!! you can bulk or cut on ANY AAS OK. understand that. with that said the only thing you are concern about is bloat, which you can simply combat with nolvadex and/or arimidex. the onyl difference is a slower action/longer ester tends to give you more bloat. While faster, shorter ester = less bloat. test is test no test will give you more gains than the other. ester was made for less frequent injections/shots thats all. so in conclusion its all in your diet. no AAS is going to make you burn fat thats what clen, dnp, eca and HGH does. check out my 12 weeks out log in the competition forum might be of help.

Mass comes with some fat and cutting comes with loosing some muscle, depending on your diet.

[Pinum]

What sides are you concerned with? Are you prone to hair loss and how are your joints? Did you get your blood work done?

[1buffsob]

First off, MrMent1on had it right. You can bulk or cut on any aas.

A good lean mass cycle would include your test, 19-nor, and a test derivitive. So there's lots to choose from.

A test/tren E/ and EQ would provide a nice lean bulk for you. I'll be running the same thing for my lean bulk, along with masteron E.

But, in the end, all depends on what your diet looks like.

1buffsob

[vitamind]

Thanks all. Yeah, my primary concern is bloat and fat gain. My diet is and always has been solid. About 5 meals a day at around 200grams of protien. But I was heavy when I was young, so I gotta watch what I eat, as I have the genetics to hold onto fat. Yeah, I had my bloodwork done when i came off my last cycle and everything is fine. I'm pretty much already bald (by choice) so hair lose isn't really an issue. When I was on my Test Prop and EQ cycle i ramped up the calories as my appitite was in high gear but that really started packing on the fat so I discontinued the binging and started more cardio. I think I'm leaning towards a test/tren combo with nolvadex and liquidex to combat the bloat. I also looked into the masteron, but am pretty sure the test/tren will be enough. I've read to run the tren 8 weeks at 75mg eod, and the test for 10-12 weeks. Should I start the tren/test at the same time and come off the tren early, or start the tren later and come off both at the same time? Depending on the type test, I'll start the PCT after that.

[1buffsob]

Tren 75mg eod is far from optimal. With the sides of tren, best to keep blood levels steady. So I'd shoot ed. And even if it is your first time running tren, the dosing is too small. Run it 50mg ed very least. Also, it's always best to stop the tren before the rest of the cycle. I'd go:

Tren 50mg ed wks 1-8
Test (protocol would depend on ester) wks 1-12
PCT

1buffsob

[vitamind]

Thanks man. You think even with the Tren E and the longer slower acting trens to do each day? Or just stick with strait tren and do 50mg each day? Really appriciate our input so far.

[1buffsob]

Tren E can be seperated to twice a week, 200mg each shot. But, I'd stick with Acetate since it's your first time, and legit Tren E is difficult to get ahold of for some.

1buffsob

[vitamind]

Thanks again, man.
Totally appriciate the help here. I woulda thought my Test Prop/EQ cycle woulda been the ticket but it's different for everyone I guess. I'll try and post my results in case any one is interested in a similar cycle.

[1buffsob]

Prop/EQ is always a good lean mass cycle.

1buffsob