How to prevent cardiac hypertrophy?

[BeginTheProwl]

As we all know it, one of the risks we take when we consume anabolic steroids is cardiac hypertrophy. The possibility of the heart suddenly shutting down followed by a sudden morbid death without any prior warning signs is indeed one to fear amiong the users of anabolic steroids. Now, this is my first post, but I have been reading a long time here on the boards. I do not really notice a lot of people here talking about Left ventricular cardiac hypertrophy, and this is one of the biggest, worst side effects one should look out for when on a steroid cycle! Can anybody here supply me information on how to prevent cardiac hypertrophy on say a massive bulking cycle involving compunds such as Anadrol and testoviron?? Are there tests that you can take at the doc in order to foresee any heart complications involving cardiac hypertrophy so as to prevent the heart from abruptely shutting down without any warning? I dont really want to sleep at night in fear that my heart is going to suddenly shut down as a result of it enlarging to the point of defeciency. I plan to embark on a massive bulking routine pretty soon and want to keep my eye out for any risks I am going to take. My bulking routine will involve eating 12,000 calories a day, 100mg Anadrol a day stacked with 1 gram of test a week. My goal is to gain 60+ lbs of mass in a period of 4-5 months...
Check out http://www.ergogenics.org/225.html
and
http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPa...G/DRUG032.html
in regards to cardiac hypertrophy.
Lets hope we can all shed light on this subject and prevent this nasty side effect with education.

[shortie]

LVH is not stricly a side effect of steroids, it is a side effect of the lifetsyle we choose, meaning "the mechanical loading and unloading of heavy weights". In other words, lifting heavy weights leads to LVH, not AAS. Also, since you have been "reading around" here for so long, how come your join date is July of 06??? 12,000 calories a day and you're worried about LVH??

[SMAN12b]

12,000 calories a day huh? I hope you are at least 8' tall. What are you stats and previous cycle history??

[Alpha-Male]

someone got bored...okay, who's the wise guy???

[BeginTheProwl]

12,000 calories a day huh? I hope you are at least 8' tall. What are you stats and previous cycle history??

I am 5"9 20 years old and at this point I have no clue how much I weigh, probably don to 215-220lbs. I have been off the gym and eating only 3 meals a day (about 3,000 cals) for 2 months so far and counting. I have studied extensively into the dynamics of muscle memory and bulking phases enough to know what I am doing. Kevin Levrone has a similar system in which I am adhering to.
And I KNOW it;s 12,000 calories because I know that I can drink 7,000 cals worth of weight gainer shakes a day+1 gallon of whole milk+2 liters of ice cream a day alone is half of that. Dont forget to add the 2 pounds of red meat+half a pound of mashed potatoes as well. It all adds up to that. What I am concerned is when I embark on my next mass bulk cycle, I am going to go too far this time, and give myself a case of cardiac sudden death...so I am asking you guys for advice on what to do in order to prevent cardiac hypertrophy, or at least reduce it without compromising the integrity of my bulking diet and steroids.

[TheSentinal]

Studies have shown that heart enlargement occurs as a result of weight lifting period and that many athletes have this condition. Steroids probably accentuate the issue. I have read that cardio workouts help offset this.

[Alpha-Male]

is no one else getting this? he's lying, someone's ****in' around...pleeze say it's so...

damnit, i just can't resist...bro, if you're serious, which i doubt you are, then dood, scratch the juice and see how long your arteries and heart hold up on that bullshit 2lb of red meat a day...

c'mon, this has to be a joke...

you're a bastard if you're lying...

[SMAN12b]

I am 5"9 20 years old and at this point I have no clue how much I weigh, probably don to 215-220lbs. I have been off the gym and eating only 3 meals a day (about 3,000 cals) for 2 months so far and counting. I have studied extensively into the dynamics of muscle memory and bulking phases enough to know what I am doing. Kevin Levrone has a similar system in which I am adhering to.
And I KNOW it;s 12,000 calories because I know that I can drink 7,000 cals worth of weight gainer shakes a day+1 gallon of whole milk+2 liters of ice cream a day alone is half of that. Dont forget to add the 2 pounds of red meat+half a pound of mashed potatoes as well. It all adds up to that. What I am concerned is when I embark on my next mass bulk cycle, I am going to go too far this time, and give myself a case of cardiac sudden death...so I am asking you guys for advice on what to do in order to prevent cardiac hypertrophy, or at least reduce it without compromising the integrity of my bulking diet and steroids.

OK< lying or not, that is NOT a bulking diet, that is a HOW TO GET FAT diet!!!
That is NOT how you go about bulking. All you are gonna do with that amount of calories is get bloated and FAT !!! you don't have a clue. I would love you to post what you think Levrone routine is.

And at 20 years old, you are way to young to be thinking in the terms that you are!!!
You have enough natural hormones at that age to make great gains with prober diet and training. You are risking screwing up your HPTA

good luck

[stik]

Do u own a food bank?

[SMAN12b]

Do u own a food bank?

I was thinking more like a cattle ranch and he will jst go out and chew on a cow all day long........lolol

[shortie]

Only way in hell I could even come close to 12k is a strict Haagen Daaz and Dominos pizza diet.

He's just one of the haters that tries to infiltrate our world and spread misinformation pretending to be one of us, and then spreading bullshit around under the guise of "concern".

[mickdiesel]

as this guy may be lieing, i would be interested to hear any helpful info on this subject. i know that stanozol (winny) def creates a situation conducive to advance cardiac hypertrophy. and eating 12,000 calories a day is rediculous. a gallon of milk and a gallon of ice cream. you better have to assholes. now that i got that out of the way, anybody know anything informative?

[BeginTheProwl]

This is going in a bad direction. Please let me first apologize to those people I greatly offended, and probably ruined their life for good. I did not write my concern with the intention of spreading "misinformation" under the "guise" of a normal person. Please dont hypothesize conspiracy-induced theories upon my infatuation, because this was NOT my intention at ALL! All I wanted to know was what steps I can take to minimize the risk of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk that can sneak upon any anabolic steroid user at any time, any moment, any day, anywhere WITH NO WARNING AT ALL. And yes, this massive bulk routine that I plan to embark upon is very dangerous. I understand that, but if you want to be a 300+lb monster, then you gotta go monsterous things to yourself. Monster efforts=Monster results. You want extreme results, you must take the extreme road!
So now thats cleared out of the way, allow me to re-elaborate:
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PREVENT SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???

[SMAN12b]

This is going in a bad direction. Please let me first apologize to those people I greatly offended, and probably ruined their life for good. I did not write my concern with the intention of spreading "misinformation" under the "guise" of a normal person. Please dont hypothesize conspiracy-induced theories upon my infatuation, because this was NOT my intention at ALL! All I wanted to know was what steps I can take to minimize the risk of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk that can sneak upon any anabolic steroid user at any time, any moment, any day, anywhere WITH NO WARNING AT ALL. And yes, this massive bulk routine that I plan to embark upon is very dangerous. I understand that, but if you want to be a 300+lb monster, then you gotta go monsterous things to yourself. Monster efforts=Monster results. You want extreme results, you must take the extreme road!
So now thats cleared out of the way, allow me to re-elaborate:
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PREVENT SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???

To prevent sudden cardiac death, stay home, eat veggies, lift NO weights and take NO AAS !!

That being said.
there are right ways to become a monster, and STUPID ways to do it. YOu my friend are on the short bus on the stupid road !! Have fun!! It won't last long. If your not gonna do it right, then why bother?????

[Kale]

This is going in a bad direction. Please let me first apologize to those people I greatly offended, and probably ruined their life for good. I did not write my concern with the intention of spreading "misinformation" under the "guise" of a normal person. Please dont hypothesize conspiracy-induced theories upon my infatuation, because this was NOT my intention at ALL! All I wanted to know was what steps I can take to minimize the risk of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk that can sneak upon any anabolic steroid user at any time, any moment, any day, anywhere WITH NO WARNING AT ALL. And yes, this massive bulk routine that I plan to embark upon is very dangerous. I understand that, but if you want to be a 300+lb monster, then you gotta go monsterous things to yourself. Monster efforts=Monster results. You want extreme results, you must take the extreme road!
So now thats cleared out of the way, allow me to re-elaborate:
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PREVENT SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???

Yes, kill yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!! This thread is one of the dumbest I have ever read !!!!

[SnaX]

OMG LVH!! What's THAT!!! Oh crap i think i feel MY left ventrical twinging!! No really i do!! Oh man!! oOOOOH MAN!!!!! What do i do!!!! =O





Giggity. No but seriously the left side of heart does feel wierd.. why IS that? I've had it for a while lol. So cardio fixes this or what? Google time =O

[shortie]

Cardio and keeping your BP in check will help, but the reality LVH will happen if you lift heavy. By sticking to a more BB oriented program though, not powerlifting, I think will help alleviate the stresses that cause this.

[END-RAGE]

yeh well ur probly jusguna die without even knowing, sorry no way to prevent this

[shortie]

Here is an intersting study-Shows an interesting twist on the action of Testosterone in LVH. Of course this only applies to what might be considered "normal" T levels, not the supraphysiolgical levels associated with body building.


Association of endogenous testosterone with blood pressure and left ventricular mass in men. The Tromso Study.

Svartberg J, von Muhlen D, Schirmer H, Barrett-Connor E, Sundfjord J, Jorde R.

Department of Medicine, University Hospital of North Norway, 9038 Tromso, Norway. johan.svartberg@unn.no

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that lower endogenous testosterone levels are associated with higher blood pressure, left ventricular mass, and left ventricular hypertrophy. DESIGN: Population-based cross-sectional study. METHODS: Sex hormone levels, measured by immunoassay, anthropometric measurements and resting blood pressure were studied in 1548 men aged 25-84 Years; echocardiography was completed in 1264 of these men. Partial correlations and multiple regressions were used to estimate the associations between sex hormones, blood pressure and left ventricular mass by height. Analyses of variance and covariance were used to compare men with categorical hypertension and left ventricular hypertrophy. RESULTS: In age-adjusted partial correlations, total testosterone and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were each inversely associated with systolic blood pressure (SBP) (P<0.001). Men with categorical hypertension (SBP> or =140 or diastolic blood pressure (DBP)> or =90 mmHg) had lower levels of total and free testosterone and SHBG before (P<0.001, P=0.011 and P<0.001, respectively) and after (P<0.001, P=0.035 and P=0.002, respectively) adjusting for body mass index (BMI). Total testosterone and SHBG were each inversely associated with left ventricular mass (P<0.001), and men with left ventricular hypertrophy had significantly lower levels of total testosterone (P=0.042) and SHBG (P=0.006); these associations were no longer significant after adjusting for BMI. CONCLUSION: The results of the present study are consistent with the hypothesis that lower levels of testosterone in men are associated with higher blood pressure, left ventricular mass, and left ventricular hypertrophy. The reduced associations after adjusting for BMI suggest that the association of low testosterone levels with blood pressure and left ventricular mass is mediated by obesity.

[RA]

This is going in a bad direction. Please let me first apologize to those people I greatly offended, and probably ruined their life for good.

You over-value your misguided opinion.


I did not write my concern with the intention of spreading "misinformation" under the "guise" of a normal person. Please dont hypothesize conspiracy-induced theories upon my infatuation, because this was NOT my intention at ALL! All I wanted to know was what steps I can take to minimize the risk of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk that can sneak upon any anabolic steroid user at any time, any moment, any day, anywhere WITH NO WARNING AT ALL.

I suppose you have something that actually backs up this wild accusation?



And yes, this massive bulk routine that I plan to embark upon is very dangerous. I understand that, but if you want to be a 300+lb monster, then you gotta go monsterous things to yourself. Monster efforts=Monster results. You want extreme results, you must take the extreme road!


This is the one intelligent thing you have said.



So now thats cleared out of the way, allow me to re-elaborate:
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PREVENT SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???

Why ask this? You seem to know it all already. Now show some proof.

[shortie]

This is going in a bad direction. Please let me first apologize to those people I greatly offended, and probably ruined their life for good. I did not write my concern with the intention of spreading "misinformation" under the "guise" of a normal person. Please dont hypothesize conspiracy-induced theories upon my infatuation, because this was NOT my intention at ALL! All I wanted to know was what steps I can take to minimize the risk of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk that can sneak upon any anabolic steroid user at any time, any moment, any day, anywhere WITH NO WARNING AT ALL-- TOTAL HORSESHIT!! Prove it!!--. And yes, this massive bulk routine that I plan to embark upon is very dangerous --Why do it? I do nothing I consider harmful to my health, based on scientific knowledge, only dangerous thing you are doing is your diet-- . I understand that, but if you want to be a 300+lb monster, then you gotta go monsterous things to yourself. Monster efforts=Monster results. You want extreme results, you must take the extreme road!
So now thats cleared out of the way, allow me to re-elaborate:
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PREVENT SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH??? --Maintain a normal BP-This is the single largest factor LVH, not AAS-BLOOD PRESSURE!

No offense-Just don't care for factually incorrect blanket statements.

[BeginTheProwl]

I am not going to sit here and argue with you guys...
it is just as simple as that logically as you would call it.
I always believe in simplicity...here is the catch:
"Anabolic steroids promote the rapid construction of anabolism via rapid protein synthesis."
We all agree with this? Yes?
Then lets move on to a more advanced, specified subject:
Food has calories, ah, let me quote Mike Mentzer "A calorie is a calorie." So we all know that protein rich calories build muscles right? Okay, what is protein rich calories you ask? Caloric dense of course!
Pizza, fried chicken, burgers, hot dogs, ice cream, and the list goes on and on...
Now that we have established the fact that calories can and DO build muscles, then logically it would seem critical to eat the most caloric dense food in order to magnify and peak the manifested effects of anabolic steroids, that being the accenuated effects of heightened protein metabolism and synthesis. So in my motto: The more calories, the better...so 12,000 calories a day executed with an extremely brutal heavy lifting regimen, and the introduction of extremly anabolic compounds into the system is going to equate complete, rapid, and extremly powerful ANABOLISM that will promote the biggest sizes of balloned up muscles and sheer strength!
But you guys shout to me "There's one problem you idiot!"
"Your going to kill your heart and arteries with all that shit!"
Well, guys, not to throw anything back at you, but your accusation against me WAS THE ORIGINAL IMPLICATION OF MY QUESTION! I am AWARE that the heart and arteries cannot take that kind of shit, thus bringing my attention to square one, my ORIGINAL QUESTION:
WHAT ARE THE WAYS TO PREVENT AND AVOID SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???
WHAT KIND OF TESTS CAN I TAKE THAT WILL DETECT IF MY HEART IS WEAKENING DUE TO LEFT VENTRICLE HYPERTROPHY????
This is all I am asking! Please dont advance and stretch out the rubber band, because rubber bands break if u stretch em too much!

[END-RAGE]

the body can only use so many calories to build muscle mass. that why they have calorie calculators, so u can calculate that amount to need to bulk. your body only uses say 2000 calroies in a day, so it would seem logical that more than 2000 is neededto gain mass? yes? do we all agree? ok??
but as you are trying to be difficult and annoying you suggest 12000 is a good marker? ok well u do that and then tel us how it goes,
if you wanna be a fukn idiot then dun come onto this forum!!

[Kale]

I am not going to sit here and argue with you guys...
it is just as simple as that logically as you would call it.
I always believe in simplicity...here is the catch:
"Anabolic steroids promote the rapid construction of anabolism via rapid protein synthesis."
We all agree with this? Yes?
Then lets move on to a more advanced, specified subject:
Food has calories, ah, let me quote Mike Mentzer "A calorie is a calorie." So we all know that protein rich calories build muscles right? Okay, what is protein rich calories you ask? Caloric dense of course!
Pizza, fried chicken, burgers, hot dogs, ice cream, and the list goes on and on...
Now that we have established the fact that calories can and DO build muscles, then logically it would seem critical to eat the most caloric dense food in order to magnify and peak the manifested effects of anabolic steroids, that being the accenuated effects of heightened protein metabolism and synthesis. So in my motto: The more calories, the better...so 12,000 calories a day executed with an extremely brutal heavy lifting regimen, and the introduction of extremly anabolic compounds into the system is going to equate complete, rapid, and extremly powerful ANABOLISM that will promote the biggest sizes of balloned up muscles and sheer strength!
But you guys shout to me "There's one problem you idiot!"
"Your going to kill your heart and arteries with all that shit!"
Well, guys, not to throw anything back at you, but your accusation against me WAS THE ORIGINAL IMPLICATION OF MY QUESTION! I am AWARE that the heart and arteries cannot take that kind of shit, thus bringing my attention to square one, my ORIGINAL QUESTION:
WHAT ARE THE WAYS TO PREVENT AND AVOID SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???
WHAT KIND OF TESTS CAN I TAKE THAT WILL DETECT IF MY HEART IS WEAKENING DUE TO LEFT VENTRICLE HYPERTROPHY????
This is all I am asking! Please dont advance and stretch out the rubber band, because rubber bands break if u stretch em too much!

Dude you are so far off the planet with your thinking you clearly cannot be helped. If you think any Calorie is a good Calorie then you are just plain dumb, oh and so is Mike Mentzer, if he really said that. I cant help thinking this whole thread is a joke !!!

[shortie]

I am not going to sit here and argue with you guys...
it is just as simple as that logically as you would call it.
I always believe in simplicity...here is the catch:
"Anabolic steroids promote the rapid construction of anabolism via rapid protein synthesis."
We all agree with this? Yes?
Then lets move on to a more advanced, specified subject:
Food has calories, ah, let me quote Mike Mentzer "A calorie is a calorie." So we all know that protein rich calories build muscles right?--Correction, good foods build muscles, shit builds shit-- Okay, what is protein rich calories you ask? Caloric dense of course!
Pizza, fried chicken, burgers, hot dogs, ice cream, and the list goes on and on...--Garbage, filled with more garbage=excessive spare tire=high blood pressure=LVH--
Now that we have established the fact that calories can and DO build muscles--No we have not!--, then logically it would seem critical to eat the most caloric dense food in order to magnify and peak the manifested effects of anabolic steroids, that being the accenuated effects of heightened protein metabolism and synthesis. So in my motto: The more calories, the better--True to an extent, but as with all things there is a point of diminishing returns, and man 12k is way beyond that-...so 12,000 calories a day executed with an extremely brutal heavy lifting regimen--this will cause LVH more than AAS!!!--, and the introduction of extremly anabolic compounds into the system is going to equate complete, rapid, and extremly powerful ANABOLISM that will promote the biggest sizes of balloned up muscles and sheer strength!
But you guys shout to me "There's one problem you idiot!"
"Your going to kill your heart and arteries with all that shit!" --Not the AAS, not the calories, but the excess bodyfat you will carry around by eating that way and the high BP/screwed up blood lipid profile from eating total shit!--
Well, guys, not to throw anything back at you, but your accusation against me WAS THE ORIGINAL IMPLICATION OF MY QUESTION! I am AWARE that the heart and arteries cannot take that kind of shit, thus bringing my attention to square one, my ORIGINAL QUESTION:
WHAT ARE THE WAYS TO PREVENT AND AVOID SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???
WHAT KIND OF TESTS CAN I TAKE THAT WILL DETECT IF MY HEART IS WEAKENING DUE TO LEFT VENTRICLE HYPERTROPHY???? --Please take 10 seconds to look over any of the scientific studies available and stop posting retarded bullshit, AAS has little connection to LVH, what does is high BP and heavy lifting, which affects BP--
This is all I am asking! Please dont advance and stretch out the rubber band, because rubber bands break if u stretch em too much!--WTF?--

[RA]

I am not going to sit here and argue with you guys...
it is just as simple as that logically as you would call it.
I always believe in simplicity...here is the catch:
"Anabolic steroids promote the rapid construction of anabolism via rapid protein synthesis."
We all agree with this? Yes?
Then lets move on to a more advanced, specified subject:
Food has calories, ah, let me quote Mike Mentzer "A calorie is a calorie." So we all know that protein rich calories build muscles right? Okay, what is protein rich calories you ask? Caloric dense of course!
Pizza, fried chicken, burgers, hot dogs, ice cream, and the list goes on and on...
Now that we have established the fact that calories can and DO build muscles, then logically it would seem critical to eat the most caloric dense food in order to magnify and peak the manifested effects of anabolic steroids, that being the accenuated effects of heightened protein metabolism and synthesis. So in my motto: The more calories, the better...so 12,000 calories a day executed with an extremely brutal heavy lifting regimen, and the introduction of extremly anabolic compounds into the system is going to equate complete, rapid, and extremly powerful ANABOLISM that will promote the biggest sizes of balloned up muscles and sheer strength!
But you guys shout to me "There's one problem you idiot!"
"Your going to kill your heart and arteries with all that shit!"
Well, guys, not to throw anything back at you, but your accusation against me WAS THE ORIGINAL IMPLICATION OF MY QUESTION! I am AWARE that the heart and arteries cannot take that kind of shit, thus bringing my attention to square one, my ORIGINAL QUESTION:
WHAT ARE THE WAYS TO PREVENT AND AVOID SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???
WHAT KIND OF TESTS CAN I TAKE THAT WILL DETECT IF MY HEART IS WEAKENING DUE TO LEFT VENTRICLE HYPERTROPHY????
This is all I am asking! Please dont advance and stretch out the rubber band, because rubber bands break if u stretch em too much!

You make it sound like a sprint rather than a marathon. Even Ronnie didn't get to be 300lbs overnight. Your not going to get any answers here because no one believes what your saying.

[SnaX]

So since i have more test in my system, i shoul have less of a chance of having LVH?

I started getting these weird twinges and pressure in my chest when i took nitrix and nox type supps.

Oh well.. it could be clen causing high BP...?

Here is an intersting study-Shows an interesting twist on the action of Testosterone in LVH. Of course this only applies to what might be considered "normal" T levels, not the supraphysiolgical levels associated with body building.


Association of endogenous testosterone with blood pressure and left ventricular mass in men. The Tromso Study.

Svartberg J, von Muhlen D, Schirmer H, Barrett-Connor E, Sundfjord J, Jorde R.

Department of Medicine, University Hospital of North Norway, 9038 Tromso, Norway. johan.svartberg@unn.no

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that lower endogenous testosterone levels are associated with higher blood pressure, left ventricular mass, and left ventricular hypertrophy. DESIGN: Population-based cross-sectional study. METHODS: Sex hormone levels, measured by immunoassay, anthropometric measurements and resting blood pressure were studied in 1548 men aged 25-84 Years; echocardiography was completed in 1264 of these men. Partial correlations and multiple regressions were used to estimate the associations between sex hormones, blood pressure and left ventricular mass by height. Analyses of variance and covariance were used to compare men with categorical hypertension and left ventricular hypertrophy. RESULTS: In age-adjusted partial correlations, total testosterone and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were each inversely associated with systolic blood pressure (SBP) (P<0.001). Men with categorical hypertension (SBP> or =140 or diastolic blood pressure (DBP)> or =90 mmHg) had lower levels of total and free testosterone and SHBG before (P<0.001, P=0.011 and P<0.001, respectively) and after (P<0.001, P=0.035 and P=0.002, respectively) adjusting for body mass index (BMI). Total testosterone and SHBG were each inversely associated with left ventricular mass (P<0.001), and men with left ventricular hypertrophy had significantly lower levels of total testosterone (P=0.042) and SHBG (P=0.006); these associations were no longer significant after adjusting for BMI. CONCLUSION: The results of the present study are consistent with the hypothesis that lower levels of testosterone in men are associated with higher blood pressure, left ventricular mass, and left ventricular hypertrophy. The reduced associations after adjusting for BMI suggest that the association of low testosterone levels with blood pressure and left ventricular mass is mediated by obesity.

[LockStockBarrels]

___________

[ascendant]

This is going in a bad direction. Please let me first apologize to those people I greatly offended, and probably ruined their life for good. I did not write my concern with the intention of spreading "misinformation" under the "guise" of a normal person. Please dont hypothesize conspiracy-induced theories upon my infatuation, because this was NOT my intention at ALL! All I wanted to know was what steps I can take to minimize the risk of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk that can sneak upon any anabolic steroid user at any time, any moment, any day, anywhere WITH NO WARNING AT ALL. And yes, this massive bulk routine that I plan to embark upon is very dangerous. I understand that, but if you want to be a 300+lb monster, then you gotta go monsterous things to yourself. Monster efforts=Monster results. You want extreme results, you must take the extreme road!
So now thats cleared out of the way, allow me to re-elaborate:
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PREVENT SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???

do you normally have paranoid delusions such as this? sorry to criticize, but this really is ridiculous. the chances of you experiencing sudden cardiac death are so slim, it's like playing the lotto and planning out how you're going to spend your winnings before you've even won.

you could also die suddenly in a car crash, and your odds of that happening are far more likely. so does that mean you don't drive a car? also, there's a slight possibility that the air you breathe might have some poison in it from some terrorist attack. better stop breathing as well. just trying to make it clear that your concerns are ridiculous and that's why so many people are making a joke out of you.

what you should truly be concerned about is having a heart attack, which with the diet you have, you're clearly well on your way to having. also, there is no way with that many calories you're not mostly fat. what is your bodyfat %? if you don't know, i'd suggest you find out, cause i can guarantee if you're serious about that many calories, you're obese.

as far as you planning to do a "massive cycle", your concerns should moreso be focused on tearing ligaments and tendons. from your diet, you obviously have no idea what you're doing and most likely have no clue in the gym either, but just as on here, you *think* you do. doing a massive cycle without any prior cycle experience will give excessive growth to muscles that the connective tissues won't be able to keep up with. you'll tear something, end up in the hospital having to get surgery, and will spend months recovering. anything and everything you've posted so far that i've seen has been a bad idea.

monster efforts does not mean binging on fatty foods, or loading yourself with gear. no amount of gear will compensate for a poor diet, poor training regimen, etc. it's merely meant to augment what's already there once things are in check. you're far from that at this point.

you need to learn how to actually bulk rather than just get fat. if your diet was so good, then why aren't you getting the results you want and why are you resorting to gear at age 20? answer is, you have much more to work on before you should even be thinking about gear. you're gonna seriously mess yourself up here.

despite your claim, you have apparently not read what you should be reading on this board and i strongly suggest you read the diet forums "clean bulking" thread to get a better diet and more quality calories than just quantity. stop worrying about things you shouldn't be worrying about and start worrying about things you should be. sudden cardiac death, not a concern. heart attack from your fat food diet, concern.

[ascendant]

Food has calories, ah, let me quote Mike Mentzer "A calorie is a calorie." So we all know that protein rich calories build muscles right? Okay, what is protein rich calories you ask? Caloric dense of course!
Pizza, fried chicken, burgers, hot dogs, ice cream, and the list goes on and on...

if mike mentzer truly stated that, he's intentionally trying to mislead people that are gullible enough to believe it. why are you listening to one person when over a dozen are telling you he's wrong??? he's wrong, we're right.

a calorie is certainly not just a calorie. also, how the hell do you make the statement protein rich calories are caloric dense ones? do you even know what protein, carbs, and fats are?

pizza has a very high GI, which you probably have no clue about, but will primarily be stored as fat because of it's fast digestion. this will also cause cortisol levels to rise shorly after the meal because after the foods fully digested, your starving mechanism will kick in, most likely before your next meal. you might want to do some research on those subjects.

fried chicken will get you fat. ice cream will get you fat. oh, and hot dogs? are you serious? half the protein in hot dogs isn't even digestable because they're so toxic!

Now that we have established the fact that calories can and DO build muscles, then logically it would seem critical to eat the most caloric dense food in order to magnify and peak the manifested effects of anabolic steroids, that being the accenuated effects of heightened protein metabolism and synthesis.

we never established any "fact" with you. no one has agreed with anything you've said so far. eating more is not "logical". you think training more is logical as well? training more can potentially lead to overtraining, and overeating can potentially lead to obesity. all the foods you eat are loaded with fat, not high quality protein or low GI carbs. it's a piss-poor diet which will lead to piss-poor results. no matter how much gear you use, only so much calories will be used for protein synthesis, and the excess fat will not do any good in increasing protein synthesis. do you even have any clue how much protein you consume in a day? your body has a limit, though you seem to be overlooking that fact.

So in my motto: The more calories, the better...so 12,000 calories a day executed with an extremely brutal heavy lifting regimen, and the introduction of extremly anabolic compounds into the system is going to equate complete, rapid, and extremly powerful ANABOLISM that will promote the biggest sizes of balloned up muscles and sheer strength!

your motto is wrong. the more calories, the fatter. as i already stated, your body will only be able to utilize so many calories, and your way past what anyones body could ever utilize. even the top pros don't take in 12,000 cals in a day. the majority of it is going to just be stored as fat. also, as i already stated as well, you'll be tearing your connective tissues long before you can ever have sudden cardiac death.

But you guys shout to me "There's one problem you idiot!"
"Your going to kill your heart and arteries with all that shit!"
Well, guys, not to throw anything back at you, but your accusation against me WAS THE ORIGINAL IMPLICATION OF MY QUESTION! I am AWARE that the heart and arteries cannot take that kind of shit, thus bringing my attention to square one, my ORIGINAL QUESTION:
WHAT ARE THE WAYS TO PREVENT AND AVOID SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH???
WHAT KIND OF TESTS CAN I TAKE THAT WILL DETECT IF MY HEART IS WEAKENING DUE TO LEFT VENTRICLE HYPERTROPHY????
This is all I am asking! Please dont advance and stretch out the rubber band, because rubber bands break if u stretch em too much!

if you really want something to be concerned about, be concerned about your cholesterol levels. with your diet, i can assure you they're through the roof. that can be tested with a simple blood test.

we could care less about what you're asking cause it's worthless. you have plenty of other things that are genuine concerns, and yours is not one of them. you're worrying about something ridiculous and blowing off tons of legitimate concerns. why? we're trying to help you and you just keep blowing it off?

not sure what your "rubber band" statement was supposed to mean in the above quote, but you're getting a lot of good advice here. if you're not going to appreciate it and you're just going to keep blowing it off waiting for an answer to a question that is an unecessary concern, then eventually people will stop giving you advice. you'll quickly find that igoring the 30 useful posts in a thread to find that one single one that has the answer you want is not the right way to get information from here. we know what we're talking about and if you're not going to listen, then there's no hope and you might as well just keep doing what you're doing and find out the hard way.

[Kale]

Just had a thought. I bet this is "Saluu" the Roid Monkey back to haunt us again

[Alpha-Male]

omg...i return to work this morning, and exactly what i thought would happen, did...i told you this was some jackass messing around, trying to see how many posts he could get thrown up...it was sooooooo obvious...

anyhow, i've read many studies where steroid users had heart problems, but the issue here is, at NO time could it be directly linked to aas usage...the path your heart is going to take is mostly determined the minute you're conceieved...i've seen some of the healthiest guys in the world, drop dead from a heartattack or stroke...sure, you can take measures to minimize risks, however, you're likely only delaying the inevitable...those guys who had problems with their hearts while using, were likely set to go soon anyhow, but the working out and aas usage served to speed things up a bit...you can debate this all you want, but seriously, take time to read up on these cases, 'cuz not a single one will say, without question, that there is a direct link here...

note: this is not an answer to the original, moronic question...but to the debate that followed

[Maldorf]

Left ventricle hypertropy, thickening of the walls of the left ventricle, occurs like others here said from lifting weights. Studies have shown that weight lifters weather they used AAS or not had LVH. Now the left ventricle can become enlarged due to dilation, this is when the walls are stetched out and the size of the chamber becomes bigger. This is what you have to worry about. When it gets big like that the chamber isnt able to pump as well, and each beat pumps much less blood than it is supposed to. The left ventricle can become stretched out like this from high blood pressure. I would say your biggest concern would be to keep your blood pressure down, and judging from what AAS youre going to use youll defintely need to take some anit e's to keep it down. Youll get major water retention if you dont, and that raises BP. Your left ventricle is the most important chamber because it is the one that pumps blood to your entire body, and it has to work hard to do that.

[BeginTheProwl]

Your reply was informational...I apperciate your efforts to help me realize the stupidity of my bulk routine. I always liked to think outside of the box, away from all of the common shared norm, because I've always wanted to have a special way of thinking to get special results. I have done the clean bulk routine...eating chicken, pasta, rye, brown rice and so forth all day. I had no problem with the taste of it, but all of the clean foods only equate to 4,500-5,500 calories a day, and the gains just werent good enough (please keep in mind my goal is to acquire massive bulk in the shortest time possible). I must disagree that the body cannot absorb any more foods that are over 5,000 calories, and whatever beyond that will be stored as excess fat or excremented. Sure I was taking more sh!ts than piss a day. I would eat 30 eggs for breakfast, 12 slices of bacon followed by a large weight gainer shake...then when I would go to the gym, I would get this massive pump and drive in the gym...my strength would go thru the roof and everything would be fantastic for me. This is why I have taken 2 months off from the gym and eating a lot, so I can reset my body and give it a break. Now once my cholestrol levels return back to normal range (I will get tested soon) then I will embark on my mass journey again. Taking t3 and clen with this diet is my plan, supplemented with lots of cardio is my plan. Can you link me to your bulk routines? I want to check em out. Let me link you to my bulk routines, where I acquired my idea off:
http://board.ghostgym.net/index.php?...e=print&sid=38
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magaz...tobefreaky.htm
let me know what u think

if mike mentzer truly stated that, he's intentionally trying to mislead people that are gullible enough to believe it. why are you listening to one person when over a dozen are telling you he's wrong??? he's wrong, we're right.

a calorie is certainly not just a calorie. also, how the hell do you make the statement protein rich calories are caloric dense ones? do you even know what protein, carbs, and fats are?

pizza has a very high GI, which you probably have no clue about, but will primarily be stored as fat because of it's fast digestion. this will also cause cortisol levels to rise shorly after the meal because after the foods fully digested, your starving mechanism will kick in, most likely before your next meal. you might want to do some research on those subjects.

fried chicken will get you fat. ice cream will get you fat. oh, and hot dogs? are you serious? half the protein in hot dogs isn't even digestable because they're so toxic!




we never established any "fact" with you. no one has agreed with anything you've said so far. eating more is not "logical". you think training more is logical as well? training more can potentially lead to overtraining, and overeating can potentially lead to obesity. all the foods you eat are loaded with fat, not high quality protein or low GI carbs. it's a piss-poor diet which will lead to piss-poor results. no matter how much gear you use, only so much calories will be used for protein synthesis, and the excess fat will not do any good in increasing protein synthesis. do you even have any clue how much protein you consume in a day? your body has a limit, though you seem to be overlooking that fact.



your motto is wrong. the more calories, the fatter. as i already stated, your body will only be able to utilize so many calories, and your way past what anyones body could ever utilize. even the top pros don't take in 12,000 cals in a day. the majority of it is going to just be stored as fat. also, as i already stated as well, you'll be tearing your connective tissues long before you can ever have sudden cardiac death.




if you really want something to be concerned about, be concerned about your cholesterol levels. with your diet, i can assure you they're through the roof. that can be tested with a simple blood test.

we could care less about what you're asking cause it's worthless. you have plenty of other things that are genuine concerns, and yours is not one of them. you're worrying about something ridiculous and blowing off tons of legitimate concerns. why? we're trying to help you and you just keep blowing it off?

not sure what your "rubber band" statement was supposed to mean in the above quote, but you're getting a lot of good advice here. if you're not going to appreciate it and you're just going to keep blowing it off waiting for an answer to a question that is an unecessary concern, then eventually people will stop giving you advice. you'll quickly find that igoring the 30 useful posts in a thread to find that one single one that has the answer you want is not the right way to get information from here. we know what we're talking about and if you're not going to listen, then there's no hope and you might as well just keep doing what you're doing and find out the hard way.

[BeginTheProwl]

I forgot to add the psychological aspect of this as well...
I NEED my winter seasonal bulk...it is my identity.
I do not fit in any social class...Guido, wanksta, hippie, whatever...I have no identity, no girls to satisfy me in bed...I live in anger and hate day and night,
I am constantly swayed by lust...I need something that will EXPRESS my inner-rage to it's full extent, something that will send the message out that I am the king of the jungle, without having to even say a word...
what I need is muscles, something to express myself..using my body as art.
Everytime I pass a couple kissing, holding hands or whatever, inside of me, I fuse with rage and hate...I need to dominate these people with my sheer power and size..I need to pump fear into people...I need that respect, the bow of servitude from people...anything!
It is a major rush to walk carrying massive bulk and power and get a lot of attention from a lot of people...it feels so good when people tell me "your so big!" or "Do you take anything?". You guys know damn well what im talking about!
I want to fight other guys....
I want to fucck every girl
I want to be the king of the jungle!

[RA]

You dont need aas. You need serious mental help.

[speak]

hahaha, yep, a joke

[jef]

how about trying to gain 60lbs over 2 years vs. 4-5 months. That alone will cause this hypertrophy you talking about...jmo. I was eating 5,000 cal a day and not totally clean and I regret that. if your goal is to be a fat ass with no muscle definition then go for it. if you think that you can cut down in a couple months with those types of gains and habits your mistakingly wrong. You'll have to cut for 6 months to get ride of that much fat gain.

also, from my reading; if you're not over abusing gear then there is no need to worry about cardiac hypertrophy.

[shortie]

Got to be a joke~Although not a very funny one IMO.

[longhorn814]

I forgot to add the psychological aspect of this as well...
I NEED my winter seasonal bulk...it is my identity.
I do not fit in any social class...Guido, wanksta, hippie, whatever...I have no identity, no girls to satisfy me in bed...I live in anger and hate day and night,
I am constantly swayed by lust...I need something that will EXPRESS my inner-rage to it's full extent, something that will send the message out that I am the king of the jungle, without having to even say a word...
what I need is muscles, something to express myself..using my body as art.
Everytime I pass a couple kissing, holding hands or whatever, inside of me, I fuse with rage and hate...I need to dominate these people with my sheer power and size..I need to pump fear into people...I need that respect, the bow of servitude from people...anything!
It is a major rush to walk carrying massive bulk and power and get a lot of attention from a lot of people...it feels so good when people tell me "your so big!" or "Do you take anything?". You guys know damn well what im talking about!
I want to fight other guys....
I want to fucck every girl
I want to be the king of the jungle!

you need some serious mental help!

Back to your original question, there is no medical evidence to suggest LVH is bad if it has been caused by weightlifting. If youre a fat ass, that doesnt workout and you get LVH, then you have a problem. The left ventricle does most of the work and pumps most of the blood. Thus its only going to get larger from resistance training which causes increases in blood flow throughout the body. I was diagnosed with LVH a couple years ago. Went to a cardiologist had a bunch of tests and he concluded that my heart was perfectly fine. However if you decide to eat 12K calories of day consisting of fatty foods and processed sugars, you will put yourself at a risk for heart attack, stroke, high bp, high cholesterol, and diabetes. Getting big and muscular is NOT a sprint. Its a marathon, that takes many weeks, months, and years of dedication. There are no short cuts in this game. Im sure many others have tried as well and had to find out the hard way.