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Thread: The Paleolithic Diet - How to improve your health long term!

  1. #1

    The Paleolithic Diet - How to improve your health long term!

    Due to popular demand (johan, bor, katlette ) this thread is dedicated to the Paleolithic diet. At first i want to give you a brief summary on the basics of the paleo diet:

    The paleo diet itself is based on what humans consumed before the agricultural revolution which took place ten thousand years ago. We know that health of humans began to decline with the introduction of grain and starch based nutrition. Early humans did not show any signs of diabetis, high cholesterol or high blood preassure,... While humans - after the introduction of grains and starches to their diet - suffered all these diseases and even more. Moreover it is obvious that our human DNA has not changed tremendously over the past 400.000 years. In fact it is identical to 99,9998% to our present DNA patterns. By noticing this, it seems logiacl that humans simply haven't adopted to the grain and starch based diets of today and are better off following a diet which their early ancestors followed.

    There are several disadvantages of the modern high carb, low fat diet approach but the most obvious and most disastouros disadvantage is INSULIN RESISTANCE. Your bodys insulin receptors simply down-regulate due to the constant overflow of insulin in the blood (due to carb intake) and therefore higher and higher insulin levels are necessarcy to clear glucose from someones blood. The logial outcome of this scenario is TypII diabetis. But high insulin levels have even more drawbacks.
    Insulin regulates your blood preassure (insulin causes sodium retention and therefore fluid retention with goes along with high blood pressure) and cholesterol level (by stimulating and cholesterol building enzym ewithin your liver). Moreover it is directly linked to developing fat depostis (especially around your waist and visceral fat as those have the most insulin receptors).

    This seems to be the main cuplrit of the modern day high carb approach. Nevertheless there are an abundance of other negative aspects of a grain/starch based diet. But i will not disscuss these right now, as this abstract should only give you a quick overview of what the paleo diet is about.

    Following a PURE Paleo diet (there are less restrictive regimes of course) means:

    1) No grains / starches
    2) No dairy products (those have shown to increase risk for heart diseases. The only exception here is whey protein as is has an immune boosting effect).
    3) No artifical sweeteners (Did you know that aspartame can cross the brain barrier and destroy brain cells btw?)
    4) As sweeteners only use honey or stevia (only in small amounts as stevia triggers an insulin response just like cylamate)
    5) As carb sources eat only vegetables, nuts or fruits.
    6) Carb intake should not be over 100g/day prefered is under 60g.
    7) No legumes (beans / peanuts)
    8) No processed foods (beacause of the high trans fat content)
    9) No alcohol (even though some wine may still be benefical)

    I for myself am slightly fructose intollerant. That is why i don not consume an abundance of pure fructose based fruits for my daily carb needs. I opted for bananas instead, even though they are starch based they should have also been available to our ancestors in the paleolithic past. Moreover a lot of fructose could do you more harm than good in the end. In fact rats are feed a high fructose diet to develop insulin resistance. Plus there are other drawbacks to fructose. That is why i feel bananas are a better choice over high fructose fruits.

    So this was a brief overwiev of the paleo diet as i understand it. Of course i could not go very much into detail, but if there are questions to certain points feel free to ask.

    AleX
    Last edited by AleX-69; 08-14-2006 at 06:52 AM.

  2. #2
    this is the meal plan i am currently following. Keep in mind that i am cutting right now + i am using test prop/winny to preserve muscle mass (in case calories seem low to you). I weigh approx 218lbs with 8%BF right now and am 5'10.

    Meal1:

    Protein Shake (ON 100% Natural Whey) with Banana and Flax Seed oil
    50g Nuts

    Meal2:
    200g Meat (Turkey or other lean meat)
    200-300g vegetables

    Meal 3:
    200g Meat ((Turkey or other lean meat)
    200-300g vegetables

    Meal 4:
    100g of fruit (strawberries or banana)

    Meal 5:
    Pre-Wo Shake with Banana

    Meal 6:
    Post WO Shake with some honey (not too much. equals 30g carbs at MAX)

    Meal 7:
    200g Fish
    50g Nuts

    Meal 8:
    Protein Shake + Flax Seed oil

    This is about 2.150 kcal
    236 Protein
    100 carbs
    92 Fats

    Sometimes i even eat more nuts, or a not-so-lean piece of meat. but is does not hinder my progeress at all.
    For frying my meat i only use butter. Reason is it is a completly saturated fat already and therefore can not be damaged by heat.
    Last edited by AleX-69; 08-14-2006 at 03:59 AM.

  3. #3
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    Great thread

    Didnt know that peanuts are a legume and not realy a nut. To bad considering the price of other real nuts

    But why avoid legumes?? Aside from avoiding beans and lentils it also means avoiding things like alfalfa and peas. I know beans can be hard to digest and contains some things that can lower the bodys ability to absorb nutrients. but is there any other particular reason??

    Are you a purist btw or a hedonist(going by the proteinpower sense of the word )

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Great thread
    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Didnt know that peanuts are a legume and not realy a nut. To bad considering the price of other real nuts
    Well i didn't know that either until i read up on it. I buy nuts in bulk so they are not that expensive then. Almonds for example a rather cheap whereas macadamia nuts are on the pricey side of things

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    But why avoid legumes?? Aside from avoiding beans and lentils it also means avoiding things like alfalfa and peas. I know beans can be hard to digest and contains some things that can lower the bodys ability to absorb nutrients. but is there any other particular reason??
    All beans aren't edible in raw form (so most likely our ancestors did not eat them, of course ) + they contain alot of antinutrients and substances to protect themselves. Even if cooked those substances are not completly destroyed. Plus they contain something called a "trypsin inhibitor" that can interfere with the digestion of protein, as you already mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan
    Are you a purist btw or a hedonist(going by the proteinpower sense of the word )
    Well i would say i am leaning more towards purist. Even though i can not fullfill all requirements (i do not eat only organic foods, i do not only eat fruits but also bananas, i do use some artifical sweetener from time to time..).

  5. #5
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    Meal 2 and 3, add either carbs or fats.

    Meal 4, I'd personally add in a whole meal.

    Pre Workout, I would go pro/carb....although pro/fat works better for some. Try it out.

    Those are just my 2 cents.

    Wow bro, for you size, your cals seem quite low. You could probly cut on 2,500+. If you can function on 100g carbs great, I personally need to stay at a high carb intake throughout the day.

    Meal 7 needs to be pro/carb

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by audis4
    Meal 2 and 3, add either carbs or fats.
    I don't always eat very lean beef or meat. So some fat is always included.
    Why should i include carbs anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by audis4
    Meal 4, I'd personally add in a whole meal.
    Dosen't fit into my daily regime, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by audis4
    Pre Workout, I would go pro/carb....although pro/fat works better for some. Try it out.
    Well banana and whey is pro/carb.. tried pro/fat and like pro/carb better.


    Quote Originally Posted by audis4
    Wow bro, for you size, your cals seem quite low. You could probly cut on 2,500+. If you can function on 100g carbs great, I personally need to stay at a high carb intake throughout the day.
    No problems even when going as low as 50g carbs. My body - and most certainly your body, too - does not need carbs at all. In fact ketones are the brains preffered fuel. It is only for those who go from a high carb to low carb to expierence "withdrawl-like-sympthoms".

    Quote Originally Posted by audis4
    Meal 7 needs to be pro/carb
    why?
    Last edited by AleX-69; 08-14-2006 at 08:55 AM.

  7. #7
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    I don't always eat very lean beef or meat. So some fat is always included.
    Why should i include carbs anyway?
    Well, if you don't include fat your going to be including carbs.

    Well banana and whey is pro/carb.. tried pro/fat and like pro/carb better.
    My bad, must have been looking at another meal, ya that looks fine.

    why?
    PPWO should be pro/carb to continue that muscle repair.

    No problems even when going as low as 50g carbs. My body - and most certainly your body, too - does not need carbs at all. In fact ketones are the brains preffered fuel. It is only for those who go from a high carb to low carb to expierence "withdrawl-like-sympthoms".
    Nah, definitely not me! I've tried under 100g for about 2 months....I was so lazy I couldn't even hardly workout...not for me, that was certain.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by audis4
    PPWO should be pro/carb to continue that muscle repair.
    after all i am only consuming carbs that have little to no effect on insulin. Therefore there is no insulin spike after /WO to shuttle nutrients into the muscle cells. Moreover i only eat 60-100g carbs a day that is not enough to replenish training induced loss of muscle glycogen at all. So for me it is best to avoid carbs the closer I get to bedtime (i tried pro/carb also in the past but pro/fat simply works better for me).

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    oh gotcha...keep doing the pro/fat PPWO then.

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    great post, thanks alex

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    You rock Alex!!! Thanks for posting that... very interesting diet, nice to know a bit of the background behind it as well. How long have you been doing this diet and what prompted you to choose this one?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Katelette81
    You rock Alex!!! Thanks for posting that... very interesting diet, nice to know a bit of the background behind it as well. How long have you been doing this diet and what prompted you to choose this one?
    Thanks. Always a pleasure to help

    I am doing a Paleo type diet for 6 weeks now and plan to stay on it for the rest of my life to be honest. I really feel a lot better now than i felt on higher carb diets or other diets cycling low and high carbs (i.e. UD 2.0). I think the Paleo diet can also be used successful for bulking, even though i am cutting right now. I will have to try that out soon.

    What initialy got me started thinking about my whole nutrition was that i felt that i had some food allergies. I got stomach / digestive problems from exessive amounts of oats, fruits, dairy products, you name it.. Moreover i always retained some water underneath my skin, i couldn't get rid off (except with sodium / kalium manipulation), despite the fact that i was rather lean already. .. not too long ago i stumbled over a short article which was about low carb dieting and they briefly explained the paleolithic diet... There it was! I simply knew by just reading this short abstract that this type of dieting would solve most - if not all - of my nutrition problems.
    Since then i have read a lot on the topic, as you might expect and i couldn't be more satisfied with this diet / lifestyle approach.

    The most complete books in this regard seem to be Protein Power and Protein Power: Lifeplan. I think especially the seccond one is worth reading! The whole paleo type diet is not only about loosing weight. That is just an added side effect it is more of healthy lifestyle approach.

    I you have more specific questions feel free to ask. I like talking about those things

  13. #13
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    the one thing that I find as a obstacle is to make food interesting while avoiding potatoes, rice and pasta. Do you know any good recepie book for paleo or low carb meals?

    I dont think I would ever say no to all legumes though. Peanuts seems like one kind of food our ancestors would eat? and there seems to be health benifits to beans and lentils. Cant make a good chili without beans

    Not sure about the all organic thing either. I am not at all oposed to geneticly modified foods for instance. Aslong as its tested properly.
    I dont like pesticides though. I got to say though that organic fruits taste a hell of a lot better than "regular" fruits. I mean a apple isnt suposed to be melon size god damn it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    the one thing that I find as a obstacle is to make food interesting while avoiding potatoes, rice and pasta. Do you know any good recepie book for paleo or low carb meals?
    There are an abundance of recepies on several internet sites. Try this for example http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritio.../recipes.shtml
    In the books i already mentioned (especially in the first one) there are also several good recepies included. This should be enough to get you started..
    I for myself marinade my meat a little diffrent every day of the week. That way it dosen't get boring. Moreover i switch the nuts i eat and the fruits i use and the veggies i eat.

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    I dont think I would ever say no to all legumes though. Peanuts seems like one kind of food our ancestors would eat? and there seems to be health benifits to beans and lentils. Cant make a good chili without beans
    well honestly i don't think you have to follow the paleo diet to a T to reap most of the benefits. Eating beans and legumes may even be benefical to vegitarians. You already know that there are diffrent aprroaches to this kind of diet. And the purist approach i described it the most "extreme" one. A "hedonist" or "dilletant" approach would still yield a lot of the benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Not sure about the all organic thing either. I am not at all oposed to geneticly modified foods for instance. Aslong as its tested properly.
    I dont like pesticides though. I got to say though that organic fruits taste a hell of a lot better than "regular" fruits. I mean a apple isnt suposed to be melon size god damn it.
    i don't eat all organic food either. It is a lot more expensive. I simply don't want to double my expenses for food on an already rather expensive diet. I eat organic food (organic meat that is) once a week at MAX.
    Last edited by AleX-69; 08-14-2006 at 01:03 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AleX-69
    There are an abundance of recepies on several internet sites. Try this for example http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritio.../recipes.shtml
    In the books i already mentioned (especially in the first one) there are also several good recepies included. This should be enough to get you started..
    I for myself marinade my meat a little diffrent every day of the week. That way it dosen't get boring. Moreover i switch the nuts i eat and the fruits i use and the veggies i eat.
    All the more reason to buy those books I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by AleX-69
    well honestly i don't think you have to follow the paleo diet to a T to reap most of the benefits. Eating beans and legumes may even be benefical to vegitarians. You already know that there are diffrent aprroaches to this kind of diet. And the purist approach i described it the most "extreme" one. A "hedonist" or "dilletant" approach would still yield a lot of the benefits.
    Yeah. I tend to stay a bit away from ever going to extreme

    Do you ever have any cheat days or cheat meals??


    Quote Originally Posted by AleX-69
    i don't eat all organic food either. It is a lot more expensive. I simply don't want to double my expenses for food on an already rather expensive diet. I eat organic food (organic meat that is) once a week at MAX.
    Shit yeah money is always one of my main concerns with a diet. I have enough troubble making ends meet as it is.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Do you ever have any cheat days or cheat meals??
    I got my last "cheat" day this weekend. The first in 4 weeks. My girlfriend desperatly wanted to eat some Ice-cream with me, so i gave in

    After all cheat meals are not that bad. Some time ago i followed a program called UD 2.0. where you go on a very low caloric phase followed by an extremely high caloric 24 hour period. Intrestingly i never ever gained one single bit of fat during those high carb days (ingesting up to 1200 gramms carbs that day) i even lost some more bodyfat.
    So actually a cheat meal now and then will not harm you i think.

  17. #17
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    well I do entire cheat days and there is nothing that could make me drop them. It would be like giving up sex. Not even fainlty possible

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    Last edited by svarturer; 02-22-2012 at 02:32 PM.

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    I talked to two people who used organic food diets and they both told me they never felt better while on it but that the costs outweighed the benefits. As well as one who would fast. Personally Im thinking of expermenting with that for a few weeks/months and see what happens

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by svartur
    shit man.... i couldn't do this!
    youve gotta post your results after your cut !!
    I can already tell you that i will be at baout 6-7% BF after my cut with my bodyweight almost maintained. But i will follow this diet approach way longer than this short cutting cycle. I honestly never felt better.. and that has nothing to do with the extra test floating thru my veins

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    Interesting. I have read that they ate alot more fat of any kind and that the fat outweighed their protein intake. That would put you into ketosis I guess.

    Ancient greeks ate like this also. a typical day of an ancient greek olympian had tons of shellfish and meat with some fruit and no mention of anything else.

    What is an example of your cheat days?

  22. #22
    Well fat intake varied alot according to recent research. Sometimes it made up up to 70% of all calories whereas other times it was below 20-30% all depending on the meat consumed of course.

    Well i do not have typical cheat DAYS. I mostly have cheat meals. When i cheat i don't do it in accordance to the paleo diet. After all it is a cheat meal. Soemthing to relieve yourself from the diet.. So a cheat meal consists of some sort of carbs basicaly (be it ice-cream, cake, a burger.. you get the idea). But i cheat only very rarely.

    One reason why i don't need to cheat is that after you are following this type of diet for a while you loose almost all "sugar carvings". B4 i started the diet and i saw i piece of cake i just wanted to eat it. Today i don't even care. This is due to the addictive nature of grains. They excert a similiar effect as most narcotic drugs only to a lesser extend but make you sort of "addicted" nevertheless. That is one supposed reason why early man settled down and started to eat grain based diets (plus the convinience of course).
    Another point is that sweets / carbs when eaten taste A LOT more sweet than they used to taste when following a high moderate carb approach. The ice cream i ate last weekend almost tasted too sweet for me...

  23. #23
    so we got disease's from eating carbs? why do we live like 50 years longer than we used to if it was so much better back then. ketones are not the preferred fuel thats atkins bs. no carbs is stupid and the whole artificial sweeteners kill brain cells is bs stevia has a higher toxicity rating then splenda, look it up. The studies involving splenda causing those problems where on rats and the amounts given where huge. You need to drink like 150diet cokes a day to have any of those symptoms. All you have to do is not eat crap and you will be better off then any fad diet.

  24. #24
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    Alex you look like a bartender I know, coincidently his name is also Alex. Except you're probably 20 or so pounds heavier then him and your utilization of the english language is much better, so you cant be him.

    I'll be very implicit, but ever since Homo erectus and Homo sapiens roamed the world the evolution of our diet has been unatural. The overconsumption of 1)Calories 2)Carbohrdrates 3)Fats 4)Processed foods has been the culprit of morbidly obese humans and which has led to illness and disease, e.g Diabetes and autoimmune disease. Only science and medicine has countered it
    In general your diet philosophy is very similar to mine, good luck with it.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by budlight1
    so we got disease's from eating carbs? why do we live like 50 years longer than we used to if it was so much better back then. ketones are not the preferred fuel thats atkins bs. no carbs is stupid and the whole artificial sweeteners kill brain cells is bs stevia has a higher toxicity rating then splenda, look it up. The studies involving splenda causing those problems where on rats and the amounts given where huge. You need to drink like 150diet cokes a day to have any of those symptoms. All you have to do is not eat crap and you will be better off then any fad diet.
    ehm...

    of course we live longer today, due to medicine, less parasites, less strenous living circumstances..

    Who said "artfifical sweeteners" in general kill brain cells? I said aspartame is capeable of doing so. Splenda is fine to use IMO.

    concerning the whole ketones thing:
    http://www.phschool.com/science/scie...he_rescue.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Prada
    Alex you look like a bartender I know, coincidently his name is also Alex. Except you're probably 20 or so pounds heavier then him and your utilization of the english language is much better, so you cant be him.

    I'll be very implicit, but ever since Homo erectus and Homo sapiens roamed the world the evolution of our diet has been unatural. The overconsumption of 1)Calories 2)Carbohrdrates 3)Fats 4)Processed foods has been the culprit of morbidly obese humans and which has led to illness and disease, e.g Diabetes and autoimmune disease. Only science and medicine has countered it
    In general your diet philosophy is very similar to mine, good luck with it.

    good luck also!

  27. #27
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    Interesting read. I don't think I would stay sane without my carbs. Btw, won't your body convert protein into carbs via gluconeogenesis when you eliminate them from the diet?
    Last edited by DNoMac; 08-15-2006 at 10:51 PM.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DNoMac
    Interesting read. I don't think I would stay sane without my carbs. Btw, won't your body convert protein into carbs via gluconeogenesis when you eliminate them from the diet?
    yes... when carbs are needed protein is broken down even though your body does not need THAT many carbs to function poperly.

    It is estiamtated that your body need 200g carbs to function properly per day. 70 gramms is made up of ketones. About 100g i ingest with my daily diet. The rest (30gramms) are made from glycogen, lactate and amion acids broken down. But b4 you scream...."I will loose all my precious hard earned muscle on this diet". I have not lost muscle following this diet. Prtoein intake has to be adequate though.

    One hundred grams of an "average" protein can supply about 57 grams of glucose so 110 grams protein would be needed to provide 60–65 grams glucose. Increased gluconeogenesis has been directly confirmed using tracer studies on day 11 of a very low carbohydrate diet (approx 8 grams/day) [29]. If indeed, 110 grams of endogenous protein is broken down for gluconeogenesis and re-synthesized, the energy cost, at 4–5 kcal/gram could amount to as much as 400–600 kcal/day. This is a sizable metabolic advantage. Of course, the source of protein for gluconeogenesis may be dietary rather than endogenous. Whereas endogenous protein breakdown is likely to evoke energetically costly re-synthesis in an organism in homeostasis, dietary protein may conserve energy. The source of protein for the observed gluconeogenesis [29] remains an open question, but there is no a priori reason to exclude endogenous rather than dietary sources. This is therefore a hypothesis that would need to be tested. The extent to which the protein for gluconeogenesis is supplied by endogenous protein would explain very high-energy costs. It should be noted, however, that even if limited to breakdown of dietary protein sources, there would be some energy cost associated with gluconeogenesis

  29. #29
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    Great thread (alex for vet),I`m surprised not to see Organ meats- liver and kidneys and eggs in your diet.Also the method of cooking your food is Crucial,hence,why I eat and raw fish and spinage preserving it`s nutrients,it`s all part of the game,you know? Even steaming has destructive qualities to food.Your diet will suit primo very well, The cool thing about it, unlike most other steroids, is the fact that it is still very effective on a low calorie diet. And, in fact, it works best with the high protein, moderate fat, that is so popular today.Eat steak,broccoli and fresh raw tuna you'll be hard as a rock on this drug, dare I say, even on its own!

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    Great thread (alex for vet),
    thanks bro,..

    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    I`m surprised not to see Organ meats- liver and kidneys and eggs in your diet.Also the method of cooking your food is Crucial,hence,why I eat and raw fish and spinage preserving it`s nutrients,it`s all part of the game,you know? Even steaming has destructive qualities to food.Your diet will suit primo very well, The cool thing about it, unlike most other steroids, is the fact that it is still very effective on a low calorie diet. And, in fact, it works best with the high protein, moderate fat, that is so popular today.Eat steak,broccoli and fresh raw tuna you'll be hard as a rock on this drug, dare I say, even on its own!
    Well, sometimes i replace the fish in my meal plan with eggs and i eat liver occasionaly, too. But the raw fish/meat thing.. not for me .
    Looking forward to my primo cycle as you know. Hopefully it will yield as good results as my current one.

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    Could you please the list of nuts that are not Compatible with Paleolithic Diet,the type of nuts realated to beans is basically what I`m asking.

  32. #32
    AFAIK peanuts are the only legumes which are commonly mistaken for nuts, but there are other nuts which have high levels of toxins and theirfore should be avoided i feel (acrons and candlenuts for example). Moreover there are certain seed which have names of nuts but should be avoided due to high toxin levels (chinese almond / apricot seed)

    Allowed are:

    - almonds
    - walnuts
    - Brazil nuts
    - cashew (shell is most toxic here)
    - hazelnuts
    - macadamia nut ( )
    - pecan
    - pine nuts (seeds actually)
    - pistachio nut


    Well this is by no means a complete list of all edible nuts out there but should be enough to provide a good variety to your diet.

    AleX
    Last edited by AleX-69; 08-18-2006 at 06:09 AM.

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