Cycle Advice

[kaoz&zen]

Hey guys, well i decided a while ago not to order shit online bc of may reasons,so now i'm oging locally b/c i couldn't stay away. My goals are little different. i wanted to be lean, not really thick like i was and get my bf% down low. Well all summer i have been doing this through a prop/fina/winny cycle and a few DNp runs. Well i lost a little more muscle then i planned (didn't work out for almot a month b/c of surrounding events and gym closed for 3 weeks.) Well i am getting ready to run another cycle soon and put back on a little mass, hopefully just end up at 195lbs with a little lower bf%. Currently 188 (bloated b/c of DNP) with a high bf% of under 12% (i don't genetically show abstill about 5-6%, it sucks.) i intend on running the following:

Weeks 1-6 Quality Vet Propionate@ 100mg/ed
Weeks 1-6 Homemade Fina@100mg/ed
Weeks 1-6 D-bol (he didn't say what type)@ 30mg/workout days and 10mg/AM on non-workouts.
Weeks 1-8 [email protected]/ed
Weeks 6-8 Clomid therapy

Do u htink this will work out for me guys?

[MBaraso]

Why do you only wanna cycle for 6 weeks?
Running Fina and D-bol at the same time isn't a good idea IMO.
Minimum cycle lenght is 8 weeks but you would see much better results w/ 10 weeks.
If your looking to lower your b/f then don't take d-bol
See if you can get your hands on some Eq.
A good cycle for what your looking for would be: Eq,Fina,prop,clen.

M

[kaoz&zen]

actually minimum cycle is 2 weeks. Shorter cycle theory.
Dbol an fina are considered most synergistic combbo

[still growin]

Originally posted by kaoz&zen
actually minimum cycle is 2 weeks. Shorter cycle theory.
Dbol an fina are considered most synergistic combbo

I disagree with both statements. I don't see a 2 week cycle doing anything but mabey shut down hpta production. And to cut up, fina and winny are a very synergistic combo. D-bol is only for MASS and strength, with lots of bloat.

[kaoz&zen]

actually, some of you guys should research a little better. there is a variable short cycle method of cycling which several large people in the community support. Dbol and fina is the largest known synergistic combo, going on 6 years. Pete or 4plates, tend to comment.

[still growin]

If several large people in community support, then it must work for most people. My bad, I will research more next time!

[kaoz&zen]

6 weeks is my ideal phase for running synchronized short esters. i feel this is the amount of time that balances good effects with ill (amount of HPTA suppression). for me, as well as others i know, tren seems to lose a good deal of its affects when run for over 6 weeks.

[MBaraso]

Bro if you wanna cycle for 2 or 6 weeks go right ahead.
Next time i'll do my research

M

[kaoz&zen]

do you realize how ignorant/ naive that makes you sound. I have before and i will, thank you for answering my questions, i really appreciate it.

[MBaraso]

Alright let's say your 2, or 6 week cycles are great.
But in the cycle your looking at your gonna take 30mgs of D-bol e/d for 6 weeks?
Your looking to get lean?? You don't take D-bol if your looking to get lean. You'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul..
And who told you that you can cycle anything for 2 weeks??

M

[kaoz&zen]

okay, perhaps you are not seeing this correctly, i'm sorry. no 30mg 3days per week and 10mg in the am 4 days per week (to simply aid in maintaining anabolic state.) The idea behind this is that HPTA on 6-8 week run is supressed just as much as on a solid 4 week one doseage run and liver values at end of cycle are similar. Many users who have tried this manner of usage do not report bloat normally assosciated with d-bol. I personally bloat on it if running 30mg+ ed during entire week. Some quotes from 2 respected mods, but i can give you more if you'd like, guys.

Originally posted by JP
Everyone that has used d-bol a few times.... has their own personal methods.
here is another method to put in your pipe and simmer on for a while.

I am able to use d-bol up to 12+ weeks, without problems with this method.

I train normally 4 days/week..... mon teus weds thurs. or sometimes mon teus thurs fri.
I only take d-bol on the days I train. So on d-bol for 4 days, off for 3 every week. I find that I get less water retension..... strength levels stay up.... and I never hit the wall this way... ie: lower back d-bol pain from the liver starting to get overworked after 2 months.
I would only do this if I am on injects as well.

Anyone else done this?

Might not be the best method for a new user..... cause they want the fast water gains.... and dont know the signs your body gives telling you to shut the d-bol down...
but overall....
I feel this is the best method of using d-bol.....
for me personally.
JP.

Originally posted by BIG_GUNS_21
I have tried it like this but with 5 on 2 off with good results...what kind of dose where you takeing JP?

My normal D-bol cycle was 50mg+ but now I am leaning towards lower doses and longer durations for more solid keepable gains...I would rather put on 10lb of GOOD muscle then 30lbs and have to lose the fat post cycle (I think its b/c I hate to diet...lol)

I persnoally would not care to usee d-bol for cutting an would gladly add EQ, except for increased hunger is not my thing. I have run winny in past and liked it, i will use in future aliong with aanavar. For the time being though i want to experiment with this snergistic effect which this compound combined with fina carries. Alos, i like the dopamine afflicting properties that it has. While i agree it is not a typical compound on a cutting cycle, it is not that far from ideal. C'mon there are those that cut on anadrol and deca even. A lot of it is in your diet. If you would like to further look at my reasonings behind this matter i welcome you to my board and would love for you to do a search under my posts.
Also, i would just like to say, sorry if i was condescending in any way to you, it just irked me on how close minded you were initially; i appreciate your level- headedness in this recent reply and would love to debate further if you would like. I don't know my personal feelings on the 2week cycles and variable time short cycle intervals, but if you would like me to dredge up some research about these i will, so that tnhose unfamiliar can see them.

oops still growing, fina/winnny is a very effective combo but never have i read or experienced any synergystic effect between the two. I have run this before, but never without test. reason why i add this last part is that, supposely fina asserts its best :"fat burning" properties in the presence of little to no exogenously induced estrogen.

[kaoz&zen]

meso has good info on 2 week cycles.. check out for a decent view by, exk, Bill Roberts. William LLeweyn (sp) also vouches for them as do several other guys, just chek around.
http://www.mesorx.com/articles/pharm...e-study-02.htm
summary for those not wanting to look at case-study:

Day 1: 100 mg (200 IU) TA in morning. 10 mg D five times per day in divided doses, which might include middle of the night if I awake briefly enough to have a pre-made Met-Rx. Cyt: 125 mg (half tab) on arising and 62.5 mg six and then twelve hours later.

Days 3-11: 50 mg (100 IU) TA/day, 250 mg Cyt as above, and 50 mg Diana as above.

Days 12-14: No TA, but otherwise same as days 3-11.

Weeks 3 and 4: Diana 10 mg on arising, and 10 mg four hours later. Cyt ½ tab on arising, and oxandr 20 mg on arising.

Week 5: same, but on basis of blood test, Cyt may be dropped if estradiol levels were below normal.

Week 6: Clean, unless T was not above normal in blood test at end of week 4, in which case Clo use will be continued in week 6.

[Big Rush]

i think your cycle looks great bro..the fina/prop combo should be great for building lean mass like you want...not sure about the d-bol for 6 weeks though, JMO..good luck with it bro

[kaoz&zen]

thanks BR, i appreciat e the input.. Yeah i know how the dbol thing is odd, i originally wanted to do something different, but i feel i should try this after talking it over with so many people who have and had nothing bad to say.
also guys i'm pleased to anounce i just becmae od of a growing community (since it had initial problems and has since change to ownership of a much less infamous person, so you can visit me there too.

[still growin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kaoz&zen
[B]actually, some of you guys should research a little better.

Quote
do you realize how ignorant/ naive that makes you sound. I have before and i will, thank you for answering my questions, i really appreciate it.

Hey bro, don't want to start a feud. I got a little offended by your comment telling me to research a little more. We all do our research, but if sources are different, information is different. And everyone has their own opinions. I was just giving you mine. Your cycle is up to you, I will tell you what I think, and you do what you feel is best after all your research. Peace

[kaoz&zen]

this comment is not to you, it was to someone else who has opened his mind a little and taken part in a sharing of beliefs. He was open minded enugh to except the things i said later, and to him personally i withdrew my comments. If you would like to start a feud, by all means i'm up. What literature have you read, or even experiences that specifically advocate a minuimum of eight weeks for a cycle. None that i know of, but perhaps you would like to share. WAR said that an average cycle length waas 8 weeks, but not that they couldn't be shorter. If you would like to debate this further i will be more than happy, but i know of no literature supporting your claims; i will give oyou that literature does support 8 week + cycles, but not refuting thosse that are less.

[iron4life79]

well,
this is my opinion on the whole thing: if youre going to run only short acting esters for the whole cycle, i see no sense in stringing it out. the results you obtain from these particular ass will show their effects well within the 6 week period.
if you are running longer acting esters, then the 6 week window is basically useless.

k&z, i dont understand why you ask these questions if you already know the answers to 'em. guys step up to help you out, and you flame 'em when they do try to help. they had their opinions and you basically told em they were wrong. everyones entitled bro..........
don't get me wrong here, im not questioning what youve posted, most of it sounds solid to me. its the motives youre using to get your point across.
your cycle looks good...........run with it.

peace bb79

[still growin]

Originally posted by kaoz&zen
this comment is not to you, it was to someone else who has opened his mind a little and taken part in a sharing of beliefs. He was open minded enugh to except the things i said later, and to him personally i withdrew my comments. If you would like to start a feud, by all means i'm up. What literature have you read, or even experiences that specifically advocate a minuimum of eight weeks for a cycle. None that i know of, but perhaps you would like to share. WAR said that an average cycle length waas 8 weeks, but not that they couldn't be shorter. If you would like to debate this further i will be more than happy, but i know of no literature supporting your claims; i will give oyou that literature does support 8 week + cycles, but not refuting thosse that are less.

All my knowledge comes from 2 places. Message boards (ar, elite, bb, got fina, etc), and personal experience. I think experience counts more than almost any articles you can dig up. Magazines, books, message boards, etc. are all just peoples opinions. If I wrote an article, would it have more weight than if I just said something? I have used winny, d-bol, deca, equipoise, most a few times. I did different combos, different lengths etc. My friends have done test suspension, sustanon250, test enan, anadrol, and mabey some I forget. I give advice on what has worked for me/us, and also what hasn't worked. If I am not sure or have never done it, I will tell in my post. Check my posts if you doubt it. I was trying to give you my opinion, not tell you what works. I don't know you, your experience, or anything else. We could be totally opposite in what works. You ask a question, apparently know the answer, then flame those that respond. If you know, then you are looking for other OPINIONS, am I right. By the way, have you ever cycled before? What did you use? Just curious, no flame. I was just trying to help, and give my opinion. In no way am I claiming to be correct, but that is how I feel. I also think barbell hit it on the head pretty good about short esters for short periods, imho. My last post was a call for peace, not war. Sorry bro, I won't bother you again. PEACE

[kaoz&zen]

still growing, i apologize for way i handled this.
Barbells, good to see you bro, also noted.
I guess the only rationalization i can come up with is that i have heard opinions on this before andd was hoping that someone could aid me or refute me with scientific backing (JSM, etc.). Sorry, that was a weak argument on my part. I just tend to get heated up and over react and then push very hard for what i feel is right, guess i can sort of be an asshole, eh? Sorry guys.
AS far as your question, i have experience with arimi, femara, clomid, dnp, Test Prop, Test Cyp, Test Enanth, Deca, D-bol, Fina, Winny and several others.Like you i base alot on experiences of myself and friends (they have many i can't compare.. var, primo, drol, susp. 0 so i understand where you are coming from. It just incensed me that the idea people were having trouble with was duration of cycle and not other components of it (but that was just me attempting to guess what people would say.)
Peace

[still growin]

Cool bro. I asked your experience only because some people will argue on a point, having never even tried it! Just fighting over what they read here or somewhere. I will try a short cycle sometime. I never have. Never thought it was good. But you and BB made me think about using short esters like propr, winny, and fina. Couldn't hurt I guess.

[Big Rush]

still growin', whats up with the smily in your post above..lol..he looks deformed

[still growin]

Got something in his eye, I think!

[iron4life79]

k&z,
nice call bro. and just for the record, i dont think youre anywhere near asshole status, ok man?
it takes a very classy individual to step up and and take the heat for the way he or she handled a certain situation. i just hope i can handle it as well as you have, should it ever arise for me.
youre a good bro, and you are to be commended for the way you dealt with this..........nuff said.

peace bb79

[kaoz&zen]

well thank you guys, but again i'm sorry.
still growin', i have run 12 week cycles, 8 weeks, 10 weeks and 6. for cutting and progressive lbm growth (6-8 lbs. w/reduction in bf%) i prefer short cycles when using these esters. Oddly enough some people have reported great gains when using EQ for just 6 weeks with high (gram+ doses.) I don't know about long esters and this though. i do like the idea of running var and winny longer than 6weeks. But for me personally prop, fina and d-bol don't do much after this initial onset. i notcied around week 2 is when i really start to see gains from prop and week 7 they severely fdrop off. Fina is same way. However for winny, i personally feel as if the effects are strong for much longer (and u guys all know i advocate long cycles of var). maybe thiss is info i should have given at first, sorry for laying into ya. Peace man.
BTW, let me take the time to say, come in and visit anytime on BBX guys, despite politics our community is still growing