thanx for all the help guys,i;m gonna hold up a bit until i am ready to get serious about it and until i can get the gear for a real cycle. i;ll try the creatine and glutamine route and see how it works. i have been using andro-spray (although i know how all u feel about prohormones, i got it for free from a friend i know) and procomplex from optimum nutrition. i bought some creatine clear today and will see if i can get what i am looking for from that. and if i do end up taking the dbol i will keep u posted. thanx again for all the help