Nolvadex. only omg

[drak909]

yesterday in gym i heard 1 really strange thing... a guy eas saying that he's running a cycle of nolva to raise his test... without AAS.....

is this a stupid thing i guessno?

[The_Canibal]

oh yeaaaah

[perfectbeast2001]

It is becoming quite popular with the "im not ready for steroids but im looking for something better than NO XPLOD" crowd.

[The_Canibal]

It is becoming quite popular with the "im not ready for steroids but im looking for something better than NO XPLOD" crowd.

the tatoo loks great man...

[drak909]

god so you guys says that guy was serious ? omg lol but is it safe?

[The_Canibal]

wtf man???have you read anything on this subject....??

[drak909]

wtf man???have you read anything on this subject....??

you should answer instead of do post farming any other comment is not usefull sorry

if you dunno what to answer better be quiet i saw your name in this post 3 times and all was about yeah good tatoo etc. go farm your post counter in another place ty

cya

[The_Canibal]

first of all I have done my reading...second....what I was trying to say was that the question is stupid....using a SERM by itself is STUPID...but you already knew that..you did your homework and you know what SERMS are....do some research before embarrassing yourself with this kind of questions...

[kynetguy]

first of all I have done my reading...second....what I was trying to say was that the question is stupid....using a SERM by itself is STUPID...but you already knew that..you did your homework and you know what SERMS are....do some research before embarrassing yourself with this kind of questions...

Actually, if you understand how clomid and nolvadex works in the body, its not that stupid of a question.

Nolva will increase the release of GnRH which will cause the pituitary gland to increase LH output which in turn will increase the testosterone production by the testes.

But, I am sure you already knew that and believe that should be very common knowledge hence the reason you felt it a stupid question.

So to answer the original question. . .Sure it will work. Is it safe? For short periods of time I would say maybe. But anything that causes a disruption in the homeostasis of normal hormonal flow in the body is not good. Because for every hormone has an effect on another. Without doing deeper research, my gut instinct would be to leave this idea alone. But I am honestly not sure. Its mad science at its best.

What dosages of Nolva would optimize this effect?
What else is being affected?
What side effects are you going to get?
How do you come off and return to normal without crashing?

These are questions I dont have the answers to.

[The_Canibal]

do you think that you may benefit from that??from the usage of nolva???

[The_Canibal]

SERMS (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulation)

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) : Nolvadex is a SERM. It selectively binds to certain estrogen receptors, effectively blocking the estrogen and stopping unwanted sides such as gyno. It DOES NOT lower estro levels in the blood, it only blocks it from binding to certain receptors. It also helps your blood fat levels. It does not suppress LH, blocks desired estro receptors and helps stop HCG from desensitizing your testicles to natural LH. Nolva should be used during HCG therapy, at 20 mg a day, for the reason i just mentioned. Can be used during cycle if you see signs of gyno. Its mainly used to block the estrogen spike when you come off cycle, and should be used right through to the end until natural test levels are back. One drawback to consider about Nolva is that it may cause progesterone receptors to become more sensitive. This means that while using progestins such as Deca or Tren, you may become more sensetive to progestin related gyno.

this comes from one of the stickies....

[perfectbeast2001]

In theory it would work to some degree. But if you are prepared to run SERM/AI for gains and risk possible sides you might as well do it properly and run a course. It's as if ppl think AS=danger but AI/SERM=safe which is not the case. As stated above anything that disrupts the bodies natural balance has a possibility of negative sides.

[The_Canibal]

I think nolva may raise test levels of hypogonadic males....but if you have normal test levels,in the high range actually...wouldn't it be stupid to use SERMs? if you are hypogonadic( causes may differ ) then you may think about HRT....

[kynetguy]

SERMS (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulation)

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) : Nolvadex is a SERM. It selectively binds to certain estrogen receptors, effectively blocking the estrogen and stopping unwanted sides such as gyno. It DOES NOT lower estro levels in the blood, it only blocks it from binding to certain receptors. It also helps your blood fat levels. It does not suppress LH, blocks desired estro receptors and helps stop HCG from desensitizing your testicles to natural LH. Nolva should be used during HCG therapy, at 20 mg a day, for the reason i just mentioned. Can be used during cycle if you see signs of gyno. Its mainly used to block the estrogen spike when you come off cycle, and should be used right through to the end until natural test levels are back. One drawback to consider about Nolva is that it may cause progesterone receptors to become more sensitive. This means that while using progestins such as Deca or Tren, you may become more sensetive to progestin related gyno.

this comes from one of the stickies....

As does this:

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

[kynetguy]

do you think that you may benefit from that??from the usage of nolva???

Not sure that is directed at me or not. . .but...

I think beast hit the target market. . .thos who have finally learned that GNC sells hype, not results. (NO Xplode) (there is is reason it starts with NO)

Diets and training being the same, I think some benefit could be seen over hype supplements like Leukic, NO Xploed and others which promise anabolic like results. Anytime you increase the anabolic ability of the body you are going to get results. Now, as for the measurability of said results. . . .One could only guess.

As for hypogonadic males, HRT and SERMS.

Not sure if I agree. Mainly because there is a lot of variables we don't know.

HRT would be the best alternative if you qualify. You are without question right there.. however, Someon like me who is in the lower range of normal, but doesnt medically qualify for HRT, is at a disadvantage in the gym than someone with my same stats who is in the upper end of the normal range.

But what we don't know is the amount it can raise testosterone and at what effective doses?

I would almost think that hypogonadic males would NOT get as much of a boost. But I guess that would depend on the cause.

With the availability of Nolva, I am almost not willing to have such a hypothetical conversaion in open forums. :-) Simply because there isnt enough knowledge to know what to advise. I can just what the kids are reading. . ."Nolva...raises test..." (which actually it doesn't, directly. )
Then you have Clomid which would save the same overall affect as nolval. . .

[The_Canibal]

so what's the point???cause i'm still in the dark...

the majority of the users of the forum are in their early 20's so I think they can see very good results with hard training and sound diet

[kynetguy]

The only point would be to increase anabolic rate without taking AAS and at a lower cost and easier avilability.

Other than that I have no answer for you.

[drak909]

The only point would be to increase anabolic rate without taking AAS and at a lower cost and easier avilability.

Other than that I have no answer for you.

ty mate

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Stupid question, why? This was actually common back when an earlier SERM first came out, (cyclofenil i believe)

The thinking is simple. If Tamoxifen gives hypogonadal men a rise in test to normal, then a healthy guy might get a slight raise in test above normal which might just give him that extra bit of gains. Nobody who tries this could realisticly expect HUGE gains, and i didnt when i tried it, but as a little boost at best.
Doesnt seem worth it? Well, with the availability/affordability of ancillaries...why not? Besides, it lets you test drive the compound before you really need it on cycle. Nolva has some vision sides with it. if you never tried it b4 and are on your first cycle, then get sides, u have to drop it and blow another 50 bucks on another ancillary to combat your estrogen, or finish pct. then you gotta pray you dont get gyno till you get it in.(fortunetly Arr has hella quick shipping


So was the guy at the gym serious? sure.

Some guys do this with AIs also, or use them in a cutting phase to "dry up". There is a bit more convincing studies showing tha AIs will raise a healthy persons levels, though im fairly sure i have seen a couple evev on a SERMS as well.

[The_Canibal]

question is: is it worth it? i don't think so ..i would'n try it....I prefer to be "on cycle" and "off cycle"...and insulin, igf, gh can help me retain my gains and also get more...without harassing my HPTA axis more than i did while using gear....

maybe it's worth for hypogonadic males ..but for the normal man..i don't think it will help much...if at all

best of luck

[drak909]

Stupid question, why? This was actually common back when an earlier SERM first came out, (cyclofenil i believe)

The thinking is simple. If Tamoxifen gives hypogonadal men a rise in test to normal, then a healthy guy might get a slight raise in test above normal which might just give him that extra bit of gains. Nobody who tries this could realisticly expect HUGE gains, and i didnt when i tried it, but as a little boost at best.
Doesnt seem worth it? Well, with the availability/affordability of ancillaries...why not? Besides, it lets you test drive the compound before you really need it on cycle. Nolva has some vision sides with it. if you never tried it b4 and are on your first cycle, then get sides, u have to drop it and blow another 50 bucks on another ancillary to combat your estrogen, or finish pct. then you gotta pray you dont get gyno till you get it in.(fortunetly Arr has hella quick shipping


So was the guy at the gym serious? sure.

Some guys do this with AIs also, or use them in a cutting phase to "dry up". There is a bit more convincing studies showing tha AIs will raise a healthy persons levels, though im fairly sure i have seen a couple evev on a SERMS as well.

i wa simpressed to hear that just cuz in 11 years of training i'v enever heard nothing about this ty i think this is getting popular

[sofus99]

For the people out there not willing to take the step to "real" AS use, I think a thing like tongkat extract would be a far better option.