Why test for first timers?

[std4]

Hi bros,


i've been thinking recently why do we recommend and do our first cycles based on test? Probably this will be your answers:

1. Test is the main male hormone and one produces it himself. Your body is used to it bla bla...

My answer: So what? Test is the "father" of all steroids since all steroids are its derivatives. All steroids are "modulated" test. The chemical formula is changed and thus the anabolic/androgenic ratio is changed. That's why we have more anabolic or more androgenic steroids, but no steroid can be as strong as the test. I am sure everyone will agree that test puts most mass and gives most strength than any other steroid. So why "waste" it for first time? Why not begin with something milder. Think of it as tren. Will you recommend tren for a first cycle?


2. If you don't have test as base you might have libido issues.

My answer:We all take steroids to get big/strong not to have better sex.


so why do we recommend test? are there any studies or something. what do you bros think? is there logic in my words? waiting for input...

[mkrulic]

Hi bros,


i've been thinking recently why do we recommend and do our first cycles based on test? Probably this will be your answers:

1. Test is the main male hormone and one produces it himself. Your body is used to it bla bla...

My answer: So what? Test is the "father" of all steroids since all steroids are its derivatives. All steroids are "modulated" test. The chemical formula is changed and thus the anabolic/androgenic ratio is changed. That's why we have more anabolic or more androgenic steroids, but no steroid can be as strong as the test. I am sure everyone will agree that test puts most mass and gives most strength than any other steroid. So why "waste" it for first time? Why not begin with something milder. Think of it as tren. Will you recommend tren for a first cycle?


2. If you don't have test as base you might have libido issues.

My answer:We all take steroids to get big/strong not to have better sex.


so why do we recommend test? are there any studies or something. what do you bros think? is there logic in my words? waiting for input...

answer to 1.
there are others stronger than test. nuff said.
answer to 2.
whats the point in anything if you have no sex drive?
most people want the ability to have sex. every answer is qiven w/ this assumption. since you dont need a sex drive maybe life in a monestary is your best bet.
answer to origional q.
you want people to see how there body will react to synthetic hormones before stacking em up on a bunch. given that, test is rec cause of sex drive thing.

[SMAN12b]

Also....

Most other steroids will shut down your HPTA so adding Test helps to balance that out. For most This is the reason Test is the base for their cycles, even if it is just as a maintainance dose.

Tren is NEVER suggested for a first cycle or for a 2nd,3rd, or 4th due to its very harsh side effects, it is better to be used by someone who has experience with other compounds and will be able to recognize and handle the side effects should they go bad.

We do NOT cycle to have better sex lives, BUT if you take compounds that shut you down without adding Test, then you are talking about having NO sex life at all. not sure many guys here would like that just to have bigger muscles.

[guest589745]

There are many steroisd "stronger" (More anabolic/androgenic) than testosterone, period.

If you don't care about sexual dysfunction then go ahead and don't sue tesosterone, as for myself, I enjoy sex so I will keep at least a TRT dose in my cycles.

testosterone is the natural hormone we have in all of us, yes we also have very small amounts of other hormones in us but testosterone is the safest IMO due to it's natural chemical structure. It is easier on your HPTA and causes the least amount of side effects and that is why it is recomended for a first timer, to "test the waters" so to speak. You have to figure out how you respond to individual compounds in order to determine what is best for you and your goals.

Bloodwork is a majorly important and ften overlooked factor as well.

[std4]

you want people to see how there body will react to synthetic hormones before stacking em up on a bunch. given that, test is rec cause of sex drive thing.

i agree that the first cycle has to be one compound only, but why test? see yourself, you're giving me as argument what i mentioned in my initial post as possible answers to the question - the sex drive. Give me some other arguments, this is not convincing enough.

We do NOT cycle to have better sex lives, BUT if you take compounds that shut you down without adding Test, then you are talking about having NO sex life at all. not sure many guys here would like that just to have bigger muscles.

Have you tried cycle without any test? I suppose no. You advocate the policy of the board - no test no cycle. There are compounds which will shut you down much less than others. It all depends on the compound. Don't get me wrong i don't deny test. I am just curious why test is recommended to first timers? It's like a rule on this board- when it comes to a beginner test e 500mg/week.

testosterone is the natural hormone we have in all of us, yes we also have very small amounts of other hormones in us but testosterone is the safest IMO due to it's natural chemical structure. It is easier on your HPTA and causes the least amount of side effects and that is why it is recomended for a first timer, to "test the waters" so to speak. You have to figure out how you respond to individual compounds in order to determine what is best for you and your goals.

Bro, this is total bs. It is not safe at all. The compond is very androgenic, which can cause lots of side effects. For example steroids that are much more anabolic than androgenic cause much less to no side effects. Take primo for example, i am sure no one will complain of sides. Will you give test to a woman? I am sure you won't. That's how safe test is(yes you're right there's nothing in common b/n male and female organism, but still have it in mind.) Test is not at all easy on HPTA. It might be easier than deca, but it is much harsher than some other steroids.

waiting for more input

[guest589745]

Bro, this is total bs. It is not safe at all. The compond is very androgenic, which can cause lots of side effects. For example steroids that are much more anabolic than androgenic cause much less to no side effects. So nandroloen should cause less side effects than test right?Take primo for example, i am sure no one will complain of sides. Will you give test to a woman? I am sure you won't.Who said anything about women ? That's how safe test is(yes you're right there's nothing in common b/n male and female organism, but still have it in mind.) Test is not at all easy on HPTA. It might be easier than deca, but it is much harsher than some other steroids. It is also less harsh then others
waiting for more input

I didn't know we were talking about women here.

You have a point about the HPTA but it is still a "safe" steroid IMO.

I really don't have the energy to post more right now.

Good luck.

[guest589745]

It seems like you are just trying to disagree for some reason....

Since you seem to know everything, why even ask for others input ?

[lawsey000]

[QUOTE=std4]i agree that the first cycle has to be one compound only, but why test? see yourself, you're giving me as argument what i mentioned in my initial post as possible answers to the question - the sex drive. Give me some other arguments, this is not convincing enough.

A total loss of sex drive isn't convincing enough? C'mon man. No one wants to shoot pool with a rope for the rest of their lives.

[std4]

@Skullsmasher

yes, nandrolone is very mild compound and will cause less sides than test(not considering the suppression on HPTA).

bro, i don't know everything. that's why i am here to learn something and to share experience. i believe that's what this forum is supposed to be. show me convincing arguments that test is best for first timers and that's it. from what you wrote by now i am not convinced i am wrong. 10x for your input so far.


@lawsey000

who's talking about total loss of sex drive? i am sure this is what no one wants. but is it convincing(for you), to design your cycle according to the sex drive?

[guest589745]

who's talking about total loss of sex drive? i am sure this is what no one wants. but is it convincing(for you), to design your cycle according to the sex drive?

By adding a minimal amount of test, you can help alleviate these problems so it's not about designing your cycle around your sex drive, it's an easy little precautinary measure.

[guest589745]

yes, nandrolone is very mild compound and will cause less sides than test(not considering the suppression on HPTA).

But if you are talking about side effects, this has to be considered. It is one.

[std4]

"By adding a minimal amount of test, you can help alleviate these problems so it's not about designing your cycle around your sex drive, it's an easy little precautinary measure."


totally agree, but that's in general. i am particularly interested in first timers. why test?



"But if you are talking about side effects, this has to be considered. It is one."

i meant sides caused from the androgenic nature of the test vs nandrolone sides. generally you're right deca is very suppressive. But primo,for example is very mild.

[ironaddict69]

okay, what theyre saying. is if you use other compounds, say u just ran deca (god forbid) while yeah ud bulk, but your dick would be permenantly limp till u came off and got ur HPTA restored. why? its a progestin. then youll lack ANDROGENS from the lack of NATURAL TEST ur body ISNT MAKING ANYMORE. no sex drive period, at all, like you were gay, but not even attracted to guys...so asexual i guess. not to mention you might get a little bitchy, being as progestins are kinda girly hormones, and ud probly act girly without tje androgens, but i cant say for sure, sicne ive ALWAYS used test as a base, you need test, and dht in my "opinion" i hope this kind of cleared it up. its not a necessity, but why would you wanna do that to yourself? not to mention you get great gains whentest is the base of a ccle then you stack other things with it, you know man?

[vermin]

We do NOT cycle to have better sex lives,

Careful with that "WE" there, compadre - pretty much everything I do during my waking hours is more or less about either having sex or bettering what sex I do have. Why else go to work and earn money? Why else go to the gym? Why else....?

[vitor]

std4- What side-effects are you worried about?

Nadrolone is much milder than testosterone if you are prone to androgenic sides. Nadrolone gets reduced to a weaker androgen(thrue the 5ar), than deca is DHN, while testosterone gets reduced to a much stronger androgen DHT, which has higher binding affinity in the scalp, skin, prostate.

But when it comes to recovery after a cycle, libido issues, overall feeling of well being, then they will switch places, not to mention nadrolones is aslo a noted progestin which testosterone is not.

Testosterone basically could cause problem from 2 things, aromatasion to estrogen(gyno, bloat etc), and getting reduced to DHT(hairloss, acne etc) you can effectively block both with an anti-estrogen and 5ar/dht blocker like Duta, and test is pretty safe...

[std4]

who talks about deca only cycle? you gave me the same argument. it's all about the sex drive. is there other reason you'd recommend test to a first timer?

[vermin]

Oh, and fellas - the poster has a major logical flaw in his premise. He asks "why do we tell noobs...?" then gives his personal answers why he does not like what "WE" tell noobs. So, if those answers don't make sense to him, then the only logical question is "So, why do YOU tell noobs what WE tell noobs if you don't like the reasons, which you evidently know?"

So who is this "WE"...?

[std4]

@vitor

the first two paragraphs of your answer
yes, that's exactly what i discussed with Skullsmasher.

the third paragraph:
test is not that safe. you say you can get problem from 2 things - estrogen and dht conversion. name another steroid that can have more than this 2 problems? the dhts have no estrogenic problems and the 19nors have not nasty estrogenic problems. so what turned out? test has most sides.

i will say it again - i don't deny test. but i don't understand why it is recommended to first timers.

it's really nice to discuss, i see there is lots of input but i have work to do and have to leave you now. i will post later when i have time

[guest589745]

I'll wait to hear what Vitor has to say ...........

[mkrulic]

i agree that the first cycle has to be one compound only, but why test? see yourself, you're giving me as argument what i mentioned in my initial post as possible answers to the question - the sex drive. Give me some other arguments, this is not convincing enough.



Have you tried cycle without any test? I suppose no. You advocate the policy of the board - no test no cycle. There are compounds which will shut you down much less than others. It all depends on the compound. Don't get me wrong i don't deny test. I am just curious why test is recommended to first timers? It's like a rule on this board- when it comes to a beginner test e 500mg/week.



Bro, this is total bs. It is not safe at all. The compond is very androgenic, which can cause lots of side effects. For example steroids that are much more anabolic than androgenic cause much less to no side effects. Take primo for example, i am sure no one will complain of sides. Will you give test to a woman? I am sure you won't. That's how safe test is(yes you're right there's nothing in common b/n male and female organism, but still have it in mind.) Test is not at all easy on HPTA. It might be easier than deca, but it is much harsher than some other steroids.

waiting for more input

what other arguments? when someone asks for advice on a cycle we all assume that this person does not want to take anything that will make him impotent. that is a very safe assumption.
"Have you tried cycle without any test?"
I've heard this before and I find it laughable. in general, when someone finds something that works they dont try to reinvent the wheel. most on this board are aware of the dangerous of not adding test in a cycle. why take a chance of impotence just to see if you are one of the few that will not be left impotent. there is an eq thread started earlier today by a guy on an eq only cycle who is trying to find something to up his sex drive. its called test, put it in your cycle. if its your first run this is all you need in your cycle.

[kynetguy]

Test is both androgenic and anabolic. It is rates at 1:1 and all other steroids are based upon this ratio. FYI

Why test?

Why do you want to shut down your test with one compound and not supplement your test? Test does MANY MANY MANY good things in the body besides control labido. . .

1) In the brain, it helps men deal with stress.
2) It is the hormone that makes men. . .well men.
3) It is the hormone that helps us build and KEEP muscle. Without Test, you would look like a bitch. . .tits and boney arms. . LOL
4) Test also helps burn fat.

I agree with the above, I think you are just trying to disagree.

Do your own thing. Go with no test. Give us a report when you are done. If you want a noodle and no sex for 4 months, then so be it.

[ftony]

well your libido will come back after you recover,but your hair that you lose is gone for good.I go with weak cycles because of this such as primo/deca/eq/anvr if you look like a tool when you shave your head you wont have to worry about a sex drive cuz your hand wont care.if you look good with a shaved head wack the test simple as that....

[SMAN12b]

what other arguments? when someone asks for advice on a cycle we all assume that this person does not want to take anything that will make him impotent. that is a very safe assumption.
"Have you tried cycle without any test?"
I've heard this before and I find it laughable. in general, when someone finds something that works they dont try to reinvent the wheel. most on this board are aware of the dangerous of not adding test in a cycle. why take a chance of impotence just to see if you are one of the few that will not be left impotent. there is an eq thread started earlier today by a guy on an eq only cycle who is trying to find something to up his sex drive. its called test, put it in your cycle. if its your first run this is all you need in your cycle.

Exactly !! why on earth would I want to risk something I already know works for me just to see if I would lose my sex drive and my beloved erections!!
It does me NO harm to use some test in cycles, but could harm me not to. So you are damnnnnnn right we tell all noobs to start with test because its the safest way for them to get into this world of ours since most of them will be too young and too eager to wait and educate themselves on the whys. We are here to give the best, safest advice.....what each person decides to do with that advice is up to them, but I for one and NOT here to roll the dice with anyone elses health when it can be avoided by starting and always using some Test.

[MuscleScience]

Why not use test everything has potential sides if your particularly prone to one of them.

[D-Money]

I for one am not of the test every cycle school of thought. I read deca shutting down one's hpta is dose dependant. I think 200mg a week for a beginner is fine. To me it all depends on your goals! I mass is what you seek then test is a great place to start. Any vet in the game will tell you test is best for that. Also, If your sex drive is important I would run test. Just my 2cents.

[guest589745]

I for one am not of the test every cycle school of thought. I read deca shutting down one's hpta is dose dependant. I think 200mg a week for a beginner is fine. To me it all depends on your goals! I mass is what you seek then test is a great place to start. Any vet in the game will tell you test is best for that. Also, If your sex drive is important I would run test. Just my 2cents.

If anyone were to shoot 100mg nandrolone, your body would be producing 0 testosterone in 24 hrs.

[ftony]

If anyone were to shoot 100mg nandrolone, your body would be producing 0 testosterone in 24 hrs.

my sex drive was not effected till the sixth week at 400 mg of deca,im sure i had to be making test up to that point cause it couldnt be floating in my system for six weeks,i did read though that a 50mg shot of deca will shut you down for a month,i think next time i do any deca i will do a low dose of test around 80mg \week

[guest589745]

my sex drive was not effected till the sixth week at 400 mg of deca,im sure i had to be making test up to that point cause it couldnt be floating in my system for six weeks,i did read though that a 50mg shot of deca will shut you down for a month,i think next time i do any deca i will do a low dose of test around 80mg \week

I am rather sure that would be impossible if it was actual nandrolone but, cool, yer lucky.

[ftony]

I am rather sure that would be impossible if it was actual nandrolone but, cool, yer lucky.

if it was fake my protien was good cause i gained 20lb...i guess im lucky

[vermin]

if it was fake my protien was good cause i gained 20lb...i guess im lucky

Maybe it was really test....

[ftony]

Maybe it was really test....

nah after 6 weeks i dont think my libido would be affected if i was pokin test,besides i know for sure it was real,i bought it legally,and if it were test id be bald as an eagle....lol

[std4]

@mkrulic

bro, it's stupid to design your cycle according to the sex drive. ftony said he used deca and had no problems till week 6. if you use something milder than deca, you won't have problems the whole cycle. test is not best for first cycle because 1)it's not safe 2)it is very strong compound(this might lead to "spoiling" your future potential with 10-15lb(it's personal theory on which i will elaborate later))

@kynetguy
bro, this are properties all steroids have. if you don't know the body recognises all steroids as test. it doesn't have different receptors for test, winny or whatever. the anabolic/androgenic ratio defines how the steroid will act, once it is in your body.

yes i disagree that test is best for first timers. i will be happy if someone convince i am wrong.

i am not talking in general, but for newbies. if you have test in your cycle does not make it easier to get back your own production. it all depends on the pct.


@SMAN12B

again the sex drive. i repeat test is neither the best nor the safest choice of the newbies as you write. as i wrote to vitor dhts and 19nors are both safer than test.

@D-Money

yes test is best. Why waste it for first time then, when you can have pretty much the same results from much milder compound for first time. and then try test for second or third cycle. in this way you're 15-20lb ahead from the vets who begin with test.

@vermin

don't think only test builds a lot of muscles. back in the 70s Arnold and Sergio used deca/dbol for mass. Do you think they are not massive?

[bignatt]

so your suggesting that perhaps an anavar only would be good for newbs?

[std4]

in this post i will elaborate on what i mentioned in the last post.

i have read results from newbie cycles with primo at 200mg/wk for 6-8 weeks. The reported gains are 12-15lb. If the period was prolonged to 10-12weeks i am sure the results will be more like 20lb.impressive huh? and there is no test... What's the policy on this board? people begin with test e 500mg/week as first cycle. for second, another compound is added and the dose is of the sort of 1g/week. after 3rd and 4th cycle the dose is above 1.5g/week. this ofcourse includes huge doses of test. as you guys say test is best. it is the most potent mass builder and puts mass as no other steroid does. it is the strongest one. why then waste it for first time? when you have this 1.5g-2g/week "coctail" with lots of test, what do you expect from the weaker compounds afterwords? you take the strong compound first. that's not logical right? why not first take the weak one. the body is new to steroids and will react well to low doses of weak compound(as mentioned the results above). after this in the 2nd or 3rd cycle test is introduced and that's the game.

so why is test best for first timers? not only it is not safe but also it might screw the gains, which you might obtain from the weak steroid(which is irrevirsible process).

[std4]

so your suggesting that perhaps an anavar only would be good for newbs?

i would personally prefer primo or winny, but var is also possible. with this compounds you don't need any ais or serms. there will be no estrogenic sides. the only concern you might have is hairloss, but it varies from person to person and depends on the compound. you will recover your natural test faster, with these compounds, than if you use the test e @500mg/week. these compounds are much less suppressive. another advantage is the you will keep almost all of the gains.

[bignatt]

I think winny is to harsh on the joints for some

[vitor]

@vitor

the first two paragraphs of your answer
yes, that's exactly what i discussed with Skullsmasher.

the third paragraph:
test is not that safe. you say you can get problem from 2 things - estrogen and dht conversion. name another steroid that can have more than this 2 problems? the dhts have no estrogenic problems and the 19nors have not nasty estrogenic problems. so what turned out? test has most sides.

i will say it again - i don't deny test. but i don't understand why it is recommended to first timers.

it's really nice to discuss, i see there is lots of input but i have work to do and have to leave you now. i will post later when i have time

What I said is that sides with Testosterone can easly be avoided if you use an anti-estrogen and a 5ar blocker. And Imo Test is king for muscle grow.

Deca is a 19nor, and yes, deca does aromatase to estrogen, on top of that it also activate the progesterone recepter which can cause gyno and other sides. (Tren doesnt aromatase, but can still cause gyno).

If you want to do something like a Primo/winstrol stack, thats fine and it will probaly give you few problems. But you would get more gains and drive in the gym if you add a little test to it, its your choice...

[Warrior]

If you shutdown your HPTA with exogenous hormones; don't deprive your system of the hormone it has come to love - at the minimum, use a replacement dose in every cycle. Testosterone virilized you as a fetus, it matured you into a man, and the hormone effects your everyday life today... don't shut it down and replace it wth a deriative... that just isn't the right thing to do

[ftony]

If you shutdown your HPTA with exogenous hormones; don't deprive your system of the hormone it has come to love - at the minimum, use a replacement dose in every cycle. Testosterone virilized you as a fetus, it matured you into a man, and the hormone effects your everyday life today... don't shut it down and replace it wth a deriative... that just isn't the right thing to do

Thats a good point,if someone was to do a maintenance dose ,what might be a good dose to bring you to say 850ng or tops 1000ng(i was thinking 80mg \week),i tested 750ng so im thinking around 800-1000ng would be close to normal production (little higher),also i read that endigenous test converts more readily to estrogen(not sure about dht) than exogenous test, so maybe you could get away with a little higher(as far as sides not sure)i had a bad experience with hcg raising my test way high,i lost a lot of hair and battled estrogen for weeks,im good now but it left a bad taste in my mouth.i ran nolva but it still blew me up with water(arimidex would of been better) pimples all over my chest it was the worst!!and as i mentioned i shed a years worth of hair in oh a month...thats why i dont use test my hair is more important than muscle but muscle is a real close second ....real close!!!

[Warrior]

Endogenous testosterone varies up to 3-fold in men... but clinically they frequently work with 60mg per week of TE as a replacement. If you are trying to use T as a performance enhancer, you will get most of it's benefits if you keep the dose at a minimum of 300mg per week... use that as your T goal and stack the other stuff from there.

If you notice hairloss from HCG alone - then you are in a sticky situation indeed... your hair generally doesn't seem to like your head