1st cycle in over a year. Comments please.

[Jeremy34]

First off, I am a vet. I ruptured my quadriceps tendon back in March of last year playing sports. To give you an idea of how rough the road back has been, it's almost been a year since the surgery and I'm still not even able to jog, even at a snails pace. Ok, here's my cycle:

Test E.........600mg/wk......wk1-14
Tren A.........360mg/wk......wk1-10
Deca...........600mg/wk......wk1-13
IGF...............60iu/day......wk10-14
HCG...........1000iu/wk.......wk5-8
PCT..........Clomid.............wk18-21

Here is more info about me that you may want to know, so read if you wish. First off, I don't have much personal experience with Deca. I am simply trying it in this cycle because I've done this cycle with EQ several times, so I'm just mixing it up a little. I am an EQ guy just because I love the increased vascularity and I can easily use it while cutting because it doesn't seem to affect my appetite very much. I have experience with just about every kind of Test.....I've done the classic Prop/Tren/Eq cutting cycle vs Enanthate/Tren/Eq and I got the same results minus the literal pain in my ass from the Prop. My experience has been this:
1)I tend NOT to retain water very much at all with any ASS that I've used.
2)Personally I don't like Winstrol. It hurts like hell and my gains were minimal.
3)I love tren, I know most of you that have experience with it feel the same.
4)I am prone to libido problems while on tren, hence the HCG mid-cycle.
5)I've only used Deca once....it was one of my first cycles and it was a simple Cypionate/Deca cycle....HOWEVER, contrary to the libido problems on tren, I didn't experience this at all on Deca....in fact, I experienced no negative side effects at all....I don't know, it may have been due to the fact that I was 20 years old and had the sex drive to go along with it....not that being 24 while on tren should be a whole lot different.

[Bigmax]

What are your goals on this cycle??

[Jeremy34]

cutting basically

[GHO5T]

cutting basically

IMO your cycle is too comlicated specially for a cutter, as well as Deca and Tren are not recommended to be ran in the same cycle.

A cutter IMO requires 2-3 compounds.

Test Prop 100mg/ed
Tren A 75-100mg/ed

To harden up with
Masteron 75-100mg/ed
or
Winni 50-100mg/ed

PCT
*run compounds/dosages that best suite you from previous cycles*

The dosage and duration of the cycle, will depend on you and your previous experiences with the mentioned compounds. Also prop pain depends on your source, if it is a good one you shouldnt experience much pain.

[GHO5T]

First off, I am a vet. I ruptured my quadriceps tendon back in March of last year playing sports. To give you an idea of how rough the road back has been, it's almost been a year since the surgery and I'm still not even able to jog, even at a snails pace. Ok, here's my cycle:

Test E.........600mg/wk......wk1-14
Tren A.........360mg/wk......wk1-10
Deca...........600mg/wk......wk1-13
IGF...............60iu/day......wk10-14
HCG...........1000iu/wk.......wk5-8
PCT..........Clomid.............wk18-21

Here is more info about me that you may want to know, so read if you wish. First off, I don't have much personal experience with Deca. I am simply trying it in this cycle because I've done this cycle with EQ several times, so I'm just mixing it up a little. I am an EQ guy just because I love the increased vascularity and I can easily use it while cutting because it doesn't seem to affect my appetite very much. I have experience with just about every kind of Test.....I've done the classic Prop/Tren/Eq cutting cycle vs Enanthate/Tren/Eq and I got the same results minus the literal pain in my ass from the Prop. My experience has been this:
1)I tend NOT to retain water very much at all with any ASS that I've used.
2)Personally I don't like Winstrol. It hurts like hell and my gains were minimal.
3)I love tren, I know most of you that have experience with it feel the same.
4)I am prone to libido problems while on tren, hence the HCG mid-cycle.
5)I've only used Deca once....it was one of my first cycles and it was a simple Cypionate/Deca cycle....HOWEVER, contrary to the libido problems on tren, I didn't experience this at all on Deca....in fact, I experienced no negative side effects at all....I don't know, it may have been due to the fact that I was 20 years old and had the sex drive to go along with it....not that being 24 while on tren should be a whole lot different.

2.) you can try the oral version, since the injects seem to cause you pain.

4.) It might not be so wise to combine Tren+Deca in the same cycle, as you will have an increase in libido problems, and also you might experience a more nasty form of gyno.

Also your durations are a little off, you might want to consider running Test E 2 weeks longer than deca. This will change your PCT times as well, as your PCT should start about 14 days after last injection of the test.

Also your PCT seems very weak for such a strong cycle.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I don't think winstrol would be a wise choice for you because of your tendon.

If I were you I would run, Test/Dbol(jump start)/Deca/IGF/Anavar (high dose to end cycle)

You said you don't bloat much + even if you do bloat run an AI problem solved.

[GHO5T]

I don't think winstrol would be a wise choice for you because of your tendon.

If I were you I would run, Test/Dbol(jump start)/Deca/IGF/Anavar (high dose to end cycle)

You said you don't bloat much + even if you do bloat run an AI problem solved.

Not the ideal compounds to run for a cutter, but i suppose it could work with the right diet and training regime.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Not the ideal compounds to run for a cutter, but i suppose it could work with the right diet and training regime.

True, but he stated he didn't bloat much....and if he bloated to much for his likeing just run an AI. BUT! He should know that if he is having such problems recovering from his injury the extra bloat will help cushion his joints and make for a better enviroment for recovery.

[Jeremy34]

I appreciate all your input. I'm going to reduce the deca dose to 480mg/wk and run it two weeks less than the test. I just need some help on a good PCT regimine for this cycle....should I not run the clomid, and if not, what should I run instead and for how long?

[hugovsilva]

check the Anthony Roberts pct sticky in the pct forum. I think that one will suit you.

[Jeremy34]

Man, you guys are going to be pissed at me. Helping me out with giving the advice, but I've decided to change my cycle.....Here goes:

Primo..........1,000mg/wk...........wk1-15
Test E...........500mg/wk...........wk1-15
Deca.............600mg/wk...........wk1-12
HCG............1,000iu/wk............wk5-8
IGF.................60iu/day...........wk10-14
PCT...Clomid and I'll prob throw in an AI....open to suggestion. Clomid will start 14 days after last shot and last for 4 weeks.

I know the Primo dose seems high, and there may not be many comments on it. I think the main reason 1,000mg/wk seems strange is simply because nobody does it because of the cost.

[GHO5T]

Man, you guys are going to be pissed at me. Helping me out with giving the advice, but I've decided to change my cycle.....Here goes:

Primo..........1,000mg/wk...........wk1-15
Test E...........500mg/wk...........wk1-15
Deca.............600mg/wk...........wk1-12
HCG............1,000iu/wk............wk5-8
IGF.................60iu/day...........wk10-14
PCT...Clomid and I'll prob throw in an AI....open to suggestion. Clomid will start 14 days after last shot and last for 4 weeks.

I know the Primo dose seems high, and there may not be many comments on it. I think the main reason 1,000mg/wk seems strange is simply because nobody does it because of the cost.

Again not the ideal compounds for a cutter, as you stated your goal for the cycle is to cut, all you need is too run a couple compounds that will help/aid you in keeping your current mass, and your diet and cardio will burn the fat away.

Those compounds you have in your cycle are all long esters, which means they will not kick in till about 4-6 weeks, and since you will be in a calorie defiect since you are cutting, IMO you will loose mass in the first couple weeks, because the AAS arent going to be stable and wont kick in until weeks 4-6, So the first 4-6 weeks, you wont have the aid of the AAS to help you keep your mass while you cut.

Thats why most bros will use fast acting compounds to cut, since the kick in time is usually 2-3 days.

[Jeremy34]

How about adding in some Var at the beginning?

[BigGenes]

If I were you I would run, Test/Dbol(jump start)/Deca/IGF/Anavar (high dose to end cycle)

What did you mean by "increase the dose to end cycle"? I am curious as to what exactly you meant. Could you show me a brief example with doses and hormones that you suggested him

[Hellmaskbanned]

What did you mean by "increase the dose to end cycle"? I am curious as to what exactly you meant. Could you show me a brief example with doses and hormones that you suggested him

I was just talking about on var. Weak compound needs high dosage.

For Very long cycles, an increase in dosages for all seem to break me out of slumps.

[Booz]

you can cut on any drug.....its all about diet and cardio.....................

[Hellmaskbanned]

you can cut on any drug.....its all about diet and cardio.....................

Exactly....If bloats an issue , simple, run an AI................................................ .........

[BigGenes]

True, but he stated he didn't bloat much....and if he bloated to much for his liking just run an AI. BUT! He should know that if he is having such problems recovering from his injury the extra bloat will help cushion his joints and make for a better environment for recovery.

What? Dude...huh...I don't know quite how to word this, but im going to try. You don't know what your talking about in any way shape or form. Let me break this down so you can better understand what I mean:
Everyone bloats off of dbol this is a simple fact that cannot be refuted unless the dose is low, timing is done improperly, or you got some fake gear.
The real problem I have with your response is the statement you make about the bloat helping his recovery. The water retention from the dbol will hurt his recovery in such a way that he will be going backwards, not forwards. The "bloat" surrounding the muscles and tendons will cause an increase in pressure on the quadriceps tendon at a critical time during the healing process.
So the statement you just made does not hold water(hahaha, sorry I had too). And if he were to take your advise he would more then likely hurt himself.
Leave t

[BigGenes]

I was just talking about on var. Weak compound needs high dosage.

For Very long cycles, an increase in dosages for all seem to break me out of slumps.

I can't say I agree. I am a firm believer in maintaining stable blood levels as best you can to put less stain on your heart.

[Hellmaskbanned]

What? Dude...huh...I don't know quite how to word this, but im going to try. You don't know what your talking about in any way shape or form. Let me break this down so you can better understand what I mean:
Everyone bloats off of dbol this is a simple fact that cannot be refuted unless the dose is low, timing is done improperly, or you got some fake gear.
The real problem I have with your response is the statement you make about the bloat helping his recovery. The water retention from the dbol will hurt his recovery in such a way that he will be going backwards, not forwards. The "bloat" surrounding the muscles and tendons will cause an increase in pressure on the quadriceps tendon at a critical time during the healing process.
So the statement you just made does not hold water(hahaha, sorry I had too). And if he were to take your advise he would more then likely hurt himself.
Leave t

So Your saying water retention caused by either, Progesterone or estrogen does not aid joints in any way.....Care to tell me why users who run Deca, Drol, Dbol, Test experience no joint pain on cycle aka "lubed joints". So your saying compounds that don't give water are going to be better for his joints? Ok, recommend Eq/Winstrol/Masteron to him then....

Next.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Also, ever hear about users who are running Test/Deca and do not have joint improvements? Usually this is from the user running an AI....Thus stripping the WATER...that aids in "lubeing" / recovery of collagen in the tissue.

What dude???Uh duh ba du ummff....uh duh I'm sorry but duh uhhh umf kaa...Dude.... LOL

[IBdmfkr]

you can cut on any drug.....its all about diet and cardio.....................

Soooooooooo TRUE.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Also, Growth Hormone.....Best for joints? I'd say so....It's water retention places force againts nerves causing tingling in the wrists....But OMG...Water in your joints , THATS HORRIBLE! IGF/HGH/AND TEST! So much water, run Winstrol/Masteron/And EQ you'll be much better...LOL!

[*Alex*]

so duff

[BigGenes]

So Your saying water retention caused by either, Progesterone or estrogen does not aid joints in any way.....Care to tell me why users who run Deca, Drol, Dbol, Test experience no joint pain on cycle aka "lubed joints". So your saying compounds that don't give water are going to be better for his joints? Ok, recommend Eq/Winstrol/Masteron to him then....

Next.

Everything you just said is a load of shit. I understand that you may have trouble understanding some of this so I am not going to waste my time with a long responce.

So Your saying water retention caused by either, Progesterone or estrogen does not aid joints in any way

First off I never said that water retention cause by either progesterone or estrogen does not aid joints, but that is true. Please enlighten me on how water retention will aid in joint pain relief. You can't b/c that is simply not true. What is true and very well documented is that deca works as an androgen which effects corticosteroids and is a progestin which allows for more anti-inflammatory cytokines to be present.

Care to tell me why users who run Deca, Drol, Dbol, Test experience no joint pain on cycle aka "lubed joints".

Are you serious? "Lubed joints" that is funny b/c your serious. The fact that you think your right based on no physically documented evidence is sad.

So your saying compounds that don't give water are going to be better for his joints? Ok, recommend Eq/Winstrol/Masteron to him then...

No I never said that but I wouldn't be suprised if you thought that based on the wealth of knowledge you just displayed.

[BigGenes]

Also, ever hear about users who are running Test/Deca and do not have joint improvements? Usually this is from the user running an AI....Thus stripping the WATER...that aids in "lubeing" / recovery of collagen in the tissue.

What dude???Uh duh ba du ummff....uh duh I'm sorry but duh uhhh umf kaa...Dude.... LOL

if you only knew how stupid you just made yourself look.

[BigGenes]

Also, Growth Hormone.....Best for joints? I'd say so....It's water retention places force againts nerves causing tingling in the wrists....But OMG...Water in your joints , THATS HORRIBLE! IGF/HGH/AND TEST! So much water, run Winstrol/Masteron/And EQ you'll be much better...LOL!

I am at a loss for words. What happened to AR? Where did all the people who actually understood how the human body works go? GH is amazing im not saying its not but im not going to waste my time explaing it to you b/c you won't understand. I am once again going to dumb down my responce so that you can maybe understand. THE PERSON THAT NEEDS HELP IN THIS THREAD HAD A MAJOR SURGERY AND TO MUCH WATER AROUND HIS JOINT WILL CAUSE EXCESS PRESSURE ON A TENDON THAT IS STILL TRYING TO HEAL!!! What happens when you place pressure on a part of your body that is already in pain?????It hurts more dumbass!

[Hellmaskbanned]

Everything you just said is a load of shit. I understand that you may have trouble understanding some of this so I am not going to waste my time with a long responce.

First off I never said that water retention cause by either progesterone or estrogen does not aid joints, but that is true. Please enlighten me on how water retention will aid in joint pain relief. You can't b/c that is simply not true. What is true and very well documented is that deca works as an androgen which effects corticosteroids and is a progestin which allows for more anti-inflammatory cytokines to be present.

Are you serious? "Lubed joints" that is funny b/c your serious. The fact that you think your right based on no physically documented evidence is sad.

No I never said that but I wouldn't be suprised if you thought that based on the wealth of knowledge you just displayed.

You just agreed with me...That's what the entire arguement was about...If water aided joints, then you agreed and are still bitching LOL...........Are you mentally challenged little man? Why don't you spend more energy lifting small fry, instead of getting skitzo on an internet forum.

[IBdmfkr]

if you can't have an intelligent debate then why not take your bickering to PM's.. pretty annoying on the open board.

THANKS

[eberasain]

and people say you cant learn from a forum... yeah...

[GHO5T]

you can cut on any drug.....its all about diet and cardio.....................

The bros revised cycle has him running Test,Deca, and Primo, not the ideal compounds to cut with, but it can be done as you stated with diet and cardio being spot on.

IMO the bro can achieve greater results if he ran a cycle of prop,tren,masteron, of course diet and cardio will play a very important role, but i think these compounds suite a cutter better than Test, Deca, and Primo.

I agree that you can cut with any drug, as long as you have your diet spot on and are doing sufficient amounts of cardio.

However IMO one can achieve greater results using some compounds over others, whether it be for cutting purposes or bulking purposes.

[BigGenes]

You just agreed with me...That's what the entire arguement was about...If water aided joints, then you agreed and are still bitching LOL...........Are you mentally challenged little man? Why don't you spend more energy lifting small fry, instead of getting skitzo on an internet forum.

Read the entire responce. Don't make yourself look any more foolish.

[BigGenes]

You just agreed with me...That's what the entire arguement was about...If water aided joints, then you agreed and are still bitching LOL...........Are you mentally challenged little man? Why don't you spend more energy lifting small fry, instead of getting skitzo on an internet forum.

WATER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR JOINTS FEELING BETTER WHILE ON STEROIDS!!!! You didn't fully read what I wrote down. You read a typo in my first sentence and you didn't bother reading the rest. Take a better look:

What is true and very well documented is that deca works as an androgen which effects corticosteroids and is a progestin which allows for more anti-inflammatory cytokines to be present.

Do you realize what that means?