Muscle memory question

[Hephens]

ok this is an example similar to me.

Just say you come off a cycle and started cutting straight away after pct. You go back to were you started 80kilos from 90kilos (gained from AAS) and have lost alot of fat and muslce. Now the strength has dropped alot aswell, before cycle repping 60kilos bench, peak on cycle repping 100kilos, a few months down the track, repping 75kilos.

Once you start bulking again using AAS, can your muscle remember its peak from long ago and quikly gain up to that and greatly past that while on AAS?

long ago before i started AAS i had a break from wieghts. When i came back on i gained more in bench than i was before, allthough i was weaker at first before it happened.

And i plann to take a break soon for a cpl of weeks, jsut before my cycle.

[donberry427]

No offense to you, but im gonna say you havent done your research on AAS. If you change your diet after a bulking cycle like you did, you are going to loose gains/mass. And since your muslce was basically "inflamed" while on steriods, after you came off you came back to your muslce/body homeostatsis which it is used to being at. Will you gain back the strength/mass that you losted after the cycle was over? probably not. Your basically going to be starting over, and in my opinion should not use AAS until you research alot more...

just my 2C

[donberry427]

ok this is an example similar to me.

Just say you come off a cycle and started cutting straight away after pct. You go back to were you started 80kilos from 90kilos (gained from AAS) and have lost alot of fat and muslce. Now the strength has dropped alot aswell, before cycle repping 60kilos bench, peak on cycle repping 100kilos, a few months down the track, repping 75kilos.

Once you start bulking again using AAS, can your muscle remember its peak from long ago and quikly gain up to that and greatly past that while on AAS?

long ago before i started AAS i had a break from wieghts. When i came back on i gained more in bench than i was before, allthough i was weaker at first before it happened.

And i plann to take a break soon for a cpl of weeks, jsut before my cycle.

also your entire post shows inexperience with Weightlifting... There is no time off unless your injured. I am almost certain that you are hoping for steroids to be a wonder drug and change you from the light weight little guy you are to something much greater. The sad fact is that AAS is not a cure. The only cure is working out efficiently, eating clean and enough to keep up with your level of lifting.

[the hulkster]

Muscle memory is just a theorized term, the theory behind this applies to athletes who have been out of the sport for a while, example Dan Marino, theory would ask, he has been out of the sport for a while do you think he could return practice for a week and then play as fundamentally correct as he did before? proponents of muscle memory would say that he has been in this situation before so he would be able to pick up "where he left off" and get these correct movement patters back quicker because of this familiarity.

Apply this to bodybuilding:

Physiologically speeking after 2 weeks of not training your metabolic systems start to resemble that of an untrained person, after a month matches almost exactly, but you have not took a period off you just decided to cut and diet made you lose weight along with absence of AAS, so as you can see muscle memory is not really an applicable term to be using during your question, and using AAS will get you right back up to the "peak" you were at previously( with proper diet, exercise and AAS used correctly). Your example is just the give and take of your body adapting to the cutting diet(lack of kcals) and the fact that you are not on AAS anymore, just like Don said.

[donberry427]

I recently posted something about my accident back in september. I was in the hospital for 7 days and was in bad shape, almost died in the accident. But what im getting at is I was 218 b4 the accident. afterwards i was 205... Then after i became able to workout (1 month or so) I began to workout for 2 months very well. 6 days a week. HARD. Also eating multiple meals, lots of good food and plenty of Calories. I ended up being 233 4 months after my accident. Someone posted something that muscle memory had something to do with me gaining so much weight back from 205. I agree to a point. But idk thats just my example of muscle memory.

[stupidhippo]

this is more interesting question than one might think... IMO..

example:

a friend of my has been to prison 4 times... every time its been a relatively long sentence (between 1 - 4 years). Everytime he gets really strong but then plateaus, then he gets out and comes back in being very weak.. he then picks up his strength really quickly and everytime he surpasses his previous record and then plateaus.. now why is this?

also his stats are (when his best form): 63kg (140 lbs) weight and 180kg ( 400lbs)bench... so those are impressive lifts for his size.. He is pretty much midget size though... was it a lil over 140 or 150 cm.. anyways really short..

but so would possibly some long breaks do some benefit in longterm priogress??

[monkeyboy1215]

I have to agree with Hulkster the most. But Every one else has valid points. IMO muscle mem. can only be applied in extreme case when AS are not present. Example: some one who's been lifting for say a short time (less then a year). He would not in any way reach full potential in that year. Now say they for whatever reason stopped lifting for lets say 3 months. Now when that person comes back they should be able to with in a few weeks to a month or so, get back to where they left off assuming all other factors are consistent, mainly diet. Again JMO. Others may disagree.

[donberry427]

i;ve seen those midget power lifters b4...lol I was surprised to see those "lil" guys benching that much, but then again there arms are only like a foot long.

The only response to the long periods of time of would be that he fully recovers and therefore is able to go above his previous plateau after lifting heavy for awhile...

[donberry427]

I have to agree with Hulkster the most. But Every one else has valid points. IMO muscle mem. can only be applied in extreme case when AS are not present. Example: some one who's been lifting for say a short time (less then a year). He would not in any way reach full potential in that year. Now say they for whatever reason stopped lifting for lets say 3 months. Now when that person comes back they should be able to with in a few weeks to a month or so, get back to where they left off assuming all other factors are consistent, mainly diet. Again JMO. Others may disagree.

I completely agree with you. Only if the person is natty though. If your using AAS then its a whole new ball game.

[monkeyboy1215]

well at least it did not fall on def ears. Plus when once AS are introduced to the body you should keep at a bare min. sum gains. not go back to where you stared off. So Hephens, I m not trying to flame but I think you might look at your diet and training a bit more and re-evaluate the reasons why you are using the gear in the first place. Again JMO

[Hephens]

Thank you alot, that was just an example to make easy digit numbers. I made a mistake and went straight to cutting after cycle, but while i was on cycle i never did cardio just wanted to bulk, i for some reason started losing fat but i felt towards the end i gained some fat. Thats why i should of added cardio into my program so i wouldnt add much fat. leading up to my bulking cycle, i will go naturaly for a cpl of months, to try and bring back muscle memory, guys i havent lost much strength at all, barely any i am just afraid of losing it all and going back to were i started cause i no it is pointless to start AAS again its like doing 2 first cycles.

[the hulkster]

Thank you alot, that was just an example to make easy digit numbers. I made a mistake and went straight to cutting after cycle, but while i was on cycle i never did cardio just wanted to bulk, i for some reason started losing fat but i felt towards the end i gained some fat. Thats why i should of added cardio into my program so i wouldnt add much fat. leading up to my bulking cycle, i will go naturaly for a cpl of months, to try and bring back muscle memory, guys i havent lost much strength at all, barely any i am just afraid of losing it all and going back to were i started cause i no it is pointless to start AAS again its like doing 2 first cycles.

I think now maybe we are looking at a PCT problem, why would cleaning up your diet make you lose all of your gains, and again muscle memory is really not the case here it is a "theory", this whole issue concerns adaptability of your CNS and other metabolic systems, when you are gaining strength from a sedentary or non trained athlete the first ten weeks roughly are on due to neuromuscular strength gains, yes the AAS will help in this and possibly shorten the NM time period, but in the end I think we need to see your training regimen, your bulking diet, your cutting diet, PCT?,height, weight.

[Hephens]

I'm not losing all of my gains at all. i have kept at least 60% or 70%, i no i dropped fat cause i am on a fat burning supplament atm (hydroxycut hardcore). I really look at my self and actualy think this is the worse thing to lose soo much but hey i no i have kept 60% or 70% of my gains, (its in my head) through what ive done and now i realise that some of yous here find it hard to keep any at all. Big mistake next time i want to keep 110% of my gains an put extra effort into it.

[magic32]

this is more interesting question than one might think... IMO..

example:

a friend of my has been to prison 4 times... every time its been a relatively long sentence (between 1 - 4 years). Everytime he gets really strong but then plateaus, then he gets out and comes back in being very weak.. he then picks up his strength really quickly and everytime he surpasses his previous record and then plateaus.. now why is this?

also his stats are (when his best form): 63kg (140 lbs) weight and 180kg ( 400lbs)bench... so those are impressive lifts for his size.. He is pretty much midget size though... was it a lil over 140 or 150 cm.. anyways really short..

but so would possibly some long breaks do some benefit in longterm priogress??

Human growth in any form (birth to adult develop, intellect, and muscle size/strength) comes is stages. Hence we get growth spurts in children, the utter mental incapacity for a two year old to work a Trigonometry problem, and the lifters inability (aas or not) to sustain continued muscle progression.

In the latter, your question, breaks (as those experienced within cycling) provide for the passing of enough time to facilitate continued growth when the body is again capable of such.

----------------

Muscle memory, as implied by the name, has far more to do with muscle than Dan Marino’s practice performance after a layoff.

Though I haven’t studied it in detail (blatant disclaimer), from what I have read it appears to be both anatomical and physiological in nature. The former, as related to the muscle belly’s capacity to re-inflate to a prior size/state with greater ease than that at the time of development, as if the muscle is remembering.

With regard to the latter, the physiological component reflects neural development. When muscle is developed, not just increased in size and strength, but also the creation of new satellite muscle fibers, neural pathway connections are both enhanced and created as well. After a layoff of significant proportion and subsequent return to lifting, these connections begin to re-fire at rates similar to those at cessation, again as if the muscle is remembering.

M.

[cj1capp]

i always enjoy what you MAGIC32 have to say. And also like the new avy but Tuco will always have a place io my heart.

[stupidhippo]

yeah nice answer... but what would constitute as a long enough brake.. if only had the answers... would do less work with better results prolly =)

[magic32]

yeah nice answer... but what would constitute as a long enough brake.. if only had the answers... would do less work with better results prolly =)

IF ONLY!

You know Hippo, I don’t think there is a specific formula with regards to timing as there may be several variables, but if one can grow or improve (depending on the goal) a little from each cycle. It’s worth it!

M.

[GotGuns]

Muscle memory concerns both muscle and nerve function. It is possible to have a period of time away from a sport but still be able to return and quickly reach the same level again - however, I said sport, in terms on neuro-muscular patterning you will be able to pick up the required mechanical portions of movements to their previous effective level. Unfortunately this doesn't apply too well to resistance training. There are so many other facts in play - metabolic pathway effiecency, muscle fibre type, training frequency, nutirional effectiviness of the diet. Muscle memory is somewhat of a misunderstood term - if you loose muscle its gone- it isn't hiding somewhere! It takes time to build new muscles. Muscle memory should really be looked at as Neuro-muscular memory.

[the hulkster]

Muscle memory concerns both muscle and nerve function. It is possible to have a period of time away from a sport but still be able to return and quickly reach the same level again - however, I said sport, in terms on neuro-muscular patterning you will be able to pick up the required mechanical portions of movements to their previous effective level. Unfortunately this doesn't apply too well to resistance training. There are so many other facts in play - metabolic pathway effiecency, muscle fibre type, training frequency, nutirional effectiviness of the diet. Muscle memory is somewhat of a misunderstood term - if you loose muscle its gone- it isn't hiding somewhere! It takes time to build new muscles. Muscle memory should really be looked at as Neuro-muscular memory.

exactly what I was saying, I just used the examples as tangible ways to easily explain myself.

[got test?]

Each of you has heard of the phenomenon known as muscle memory. It is the occurrence of insanely extreme and fast growth in a person who is regaining the lost muscle he has allowed to atrophy. Stories such as 40-50 pound muscle gains( in a short time span ) in regards to this subject are not uncommon. The question however remains, what exactly is muscle memory and what causes it to occur? I not only intend to address this question, but also to answer the title of this article in a very positive manner. You see, I believe that an athlete can literally mimic this tremendous phenomenon! Read on if you want to find out how!!!

Note: The following article discusses muscle memory, as a term to define a recapturing of past growth. The term however should not be used in a motor sense, as that 'memory' is actually in the nervous system.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What Exactly Is it that Occurs During Memory?
Lets say that you busted your behind in the gym and built a huge, massive pair of quads measuring 30 inches in circumference! Then for one reason or another you stopped training your legs. During the time off, your quadriceps atrophied( shrunk ) down to 24 inches. Determined to regain your lost mass you decide to hit the gym again with extreme ferocity! Only this time you are able to gain back those 6 inches in a matter of months, where as originally it took you years to gain that much mass! What happened?

Before I can answer that, I need to ask you a very important question. What surrounds, binds and holds every muscle group in place?

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

" Essentially all bets are off, due to the amount of room you will have to grow! "
__________________________________________________ _______________________________

If you answered connective tissue, you would have been exactly right! In order to further explain muscle memory it would behoove us to briefly review what exactly this connective tissue is( for a greater explanation read my article, the anatomy of a muscle fiber. It goes in great depth in what I am about to cover. So if it seems a bit confusing, you definitely need to consult this article. ). Simply put every muscle is made up of 1, 000s of muscle fibers. These muscle fibers are all individually wrapped with a connective tissue wrapping, or a sheath. This is called the endomysium. These individual muscle fibers are then organized in bundles( called fascicles ) which are covered by another connective tissue sheathe called the perimysium. These bundles or fascicles are then placed together in an orderly arrangement( which determines the shape and functionality of the muscle ) and held in place by a layer of connective tissue known as the epimysium. Finally each of these layers is held together by the deep fascia( a courser material ). The connective tissue of every muscle fiber acts like a girdle of sorts. Which means that it binds a muscle group together, and to its neighboring muscle in many cases. It also protects, organizes and allows the force of contraction generated by the thousands of muscle fibers in a particular group, to be harnessed with great efficiency!

The important thing to understand is this: Connective tissue is not only a tuff material but also hugs tight to its surrounding area, almost constricting it! What does this have to do with muscle growth you say? Ahh, that my friend, is where muscle memory comes in! Think about it for a moment. In order for a muscle to hypertrophy, what needs to take place if it is restricted by this tight binding girdle? The tissue must stretch and become more pliable right?! If this did not occur, then muscle growth would be hindered( you cannot grow unless there is enough room to do so)!

When you increased your muscle mass by building 30 inch wheels, you also ended out stretching and expanding the muscles encasing tissue. Therefore the manipulation of these protective sheathes was a major factor in your ability to stimulate hypertrophy! In the scenario painted, we also discussed you taking time off from training. So much so, that your lower body atrophied to a point in which 6 inches were lost off of your legs. However, even with this tremendous setback, you still had stretched the connective tissue to a great extent. When you came back to the gym and trained, you were no longer fighting the restrictions of tight, unpliable fascia, but rather a more elastic and pre-expanded connective tissue! Essentially all bets were off, due to the amount of room you had to grow! More room to grow enables more mass to be accumulated! This is one of the top theories held today for what we coin " muscle memory. "