A study of Androstenedione - all you pro-hormoners need to read this!

[Ex_banana-eater]

you probably would have got alot better results for cheaper going with a gel based DMSO formula.

[hitmeoff]

Well im not a never say never guy, and I may reconsider 1-Test, and making my own Transdermal.

[hammerhead]

Ex you're missing the point of the post once again. I appreciate the documentation on the successes of 1-test. I am actually surprised that that level of gains can be achieved. But it still misses my point: you can post testimony from here to the moon and back about how well 1-test works. I imagine if I ever buy a bottle of it it'll have your picture on the back of it (j/k). You still have not said why you'd take it instead of testosterone.

I've seen it stated somewhere that "it doesn't convert to estrogen" well guess what - testosterone does. The only mechanism by which it can work is to convert into testosterone (or nor-testosterone) right? How can it be any better than testosterone itself? How can it possibly have less side effects than testosterone when it works by converting to guess what ....

It's like if they sold something called "Near Beer" that didn't have alcohol in it but it had some nasty tasting liquid in it that converted to alcohol in the human body. You can drink it anywhere or buy it all day long because it's not an alcoholic beverage. And if you drink enough of it after a few hours enough of it will convert to enough alcohol to give you a buzz. My post would ask the question "Why would I drink Near Beer and not Beer itself?????" and everyone's answers would range from a whole whole lot of "I got real drunk on Near Beer" and "Near Beer doesn't have the health risks of Beer" or "Near Beer only costs $6 a six-pack" or "Near Beer tastes alot like real Beer" and i'm sitting here pulling my hair out still asking "But why not just drink BEER???"

[Ex_banana-eater]

Originally posted by hammerhead


I've seen it stated somewhere that "it doesn't convert to estrogen" well guess what - testosterone does. The only mechanism by which it can work is to convert into testosterone (or nor-testosterone) right? How can it be any better than testosterone itself? How can it possibly have less side effects than testosterone when it works by converting to guess what ....

i know you are just learning about this so its okay. but the answer to that is NO. it does not turn into testosterone. infact it is an active metabolite once entering the blood stream, and therefore no conversion occurs.

[hammerhead]

Okay cool. Help us out here - how does it work?

[Ex_banana-eater]

well basically it is an active steroidal compound just like boldenone and tesosterone. once in the blood stream it begins to work.

[hitmeoff]

1-Test is a steroid, albeit a weak one. Its VERY androgenic, doesnt aromatize. At a full, reasonable (and by reasonable I mean wont break your pocket book, and wont leave your face looking like a meat lover's special at pizza hut), its effects are like those of a low dose primo cycle.

Though at the price, primo might be cheaper!!!

[hammerhead]

The whole basis of my argument lies on the assumption that pro-hormones work by converting at some controversial rate to an anobolic substance that if it were an ingredient itself it would be a controlled substance i.e. a steroid. I have yet to read anything on them that states otherwise. If i'm wrong please help me out here.

Just about all of the scientific articles I can find on prohormones are written by the people who want you to buy their products. According to them it builds muscle burns fat grows hair reduces wrinkles gets out ring-around-the-collar and makes your portfolio gain value (a little exaggeration humor but you get the point). Other articles are based on government studies that in my opinion are always worthless - government studies aren't designed to reach a factual conclusion they're designed to reach a pre-determined conclusion guided by politics (which in the USA is translated into "money"). So what data am I supposed to rely upon?

My biggest problem with pro-hormones besides the price and all the knee-deep bullshit in their sell-ads is that i'm putting something in my body that supposedly converts into something that actually works at some unknown rate. If i'm putting more testosterone in my body I want to know exactly how much! Not about so many percent of what makes it through your stomach on the days you remember to take the pills. I like injecting x milligrams. I'm used to it and deviating from it is hard to do.

[hitmeoff]

1-AD is the prohormone to 1-Test, when you take 1-AD it converts to 1-Test, 1-Test is the actual active compund, the actual steroid. I dont knwo why 1-Test isnt controlled yet, but it might very well be since it is itself supposed ot be a steroid. So when you take 1-Test (not 1-AD), there is no conversion.

And your right Hammer, you cant trust the supplement companie, and you cant trust the government, both are likely to over-exagerrate anything they publish. The only thing you can rely on is what your fellow bro's results have been.

Im with you, for the effect, the amount of sides, and the cost, PHs arent worth it to me. Its silly when ever I talk to someone who says theyd do PHs but not AAS. Thats flowed logic, because if the PHs do work for them (convert to the targer hormone) then they are doing steroids, just real expensive, inefficient steroids.

[LewdTenant]

one prob with this study is placebo and AD group both gained 30% strength in 8 weeks. What indivduals are we talking about? people who never worked out in their life? if that were the case I can do a study of "tootsie rolls' effect on sedentary indviduals" and make tootise rolls fly off the shelfs like everyday was halloween.

Lewd

[hammerhead]

This is an ongoing point of the controversy surrounding pro-hormones. There are many folks who firmly believe they work. There are many who believe that the only reason they seem to work is the subjects are young and healthy and would've gained that much anyways based purely on diet and workout intensity i.e. the placebo effect. I use this argument time and time again because I like to be provocative (devil's advocate) in these threads sometimes that's the only way to get a good discussion going. See how far I had to egg people to get this thread moving? (it's okay though everyone forgave me) If you post the placebo theory you'll be flooded by posts advocating the effectiveness of the products. Enough so that I tend to believe they're more than just another creatine or glandular type of product line.

As it stands today like it or not the situation is this: the government (FDA) did a study on androstenedione years back and concluded it had no anabolic properties and that it was harmless and an effective diet enhancer. It was not regulated. Companies have since improved the product line substantially. There are no government studies on the newer more effective products. We hope there won't be because another FDA review of the products might place them on the controlled substances list!

In the body building world there are 2 types of people when it comes to pro-hormones: the believers and the non-believers. It's hard to convert anyone. There are alot of us older folks who tried androstenedione and decided it was crap years ago. We're chuckling to ourselves when we read posts about "cycles" on these products. We cannot possibly understand why someone would take that stuff instead of steroids. Of course we haven't tried the newer stuff and in many cases, like myself, are unaware of their existence. Most of us have already crossed that bridge into AAS and we view these products in the light of how they stack up to all the other gear and the stuff doesn't score very highly.

Then there's the mostly younger crowd that have not gone far into the AAS world and have young bodies that respond very well to the stuff and they get gains. Call it placebo call it magic who cares it works. They're chuckling when they read posts that the stuff is crap. If I were still college age and hadn't done alot of AAS in my life I might join you. But niether is true. I'm a skeptic and as far as what they hold for me personally - i'm a non-believer!

[sp9]

Your conclusion is reasonable. I thought Andro was crap but have seen results at age 32 from 1AD with no noticable side effects. For me it works and I will stick with it for now based on the reasons I gave before. If I had access to the good stuff along with all the knowledge on this board then I would see your perspective even better. I guess just as the case with AS, different supplements have different impacts on individuals. Saying you are a non-believer is fine. I just have to say I disagree on this one, but a great discussion!

[hitmeoff]

Originally posted by hammerhead
This is an ongoing point of the controversy surrounding pro-hormones. There are many folks who firmly believe they work. There are many who believe that the only reason they seem to work is the subjects are young and healthy and would've gained that much anyways based purely on diet and workout intensity i.e. the placebo effect. I use this argument time and time again because I like to be provocative (devil's advocate) in these threads sometimes that's the only way to get a good discussion going. See how far I had to egg people to get this thread moving? (it's okay though everyone forgave me) If you post the placebo theory you'll be flooded by posts advocating the effectiveness of the products. Enough so that I tend to believe they're more than just another creatine or glandular type of product line.

As it stands today like it or not the situation is this: the government (FDA) did a study on androstenedione years back and concluded it had no anabolic properties and that it was harmless and an effective diet enhancer. It was not regulated. Companies have since improved the product line substantially. There are no government studies on the newer more effective products. We hope there won't be because another FDA review of the products might place them on the controlled substances list!

In the body building world there are 2 types of people when it comes to pro-hormones: the believers and the non-believers. It's hard to convert anyone. There are alot of us older folks who tried androstenedione and decided it was crap years ago. We're chuckling to ourselves when we read posts about "cycles" on these products. We cannot possibly understand why someone would take that stuff instead of steroids. Of course we haven't tried the newer stuff and in many cases, like myself, are unaware of their existence. Most of us have already crossed that bridge into AAS and we view these products in the light of how they stack up to all the other gear and the stuff doesn't score very highly.

Then there's the mostly younger crowd that have not gone far into the AAS world and have young bodies that respond very well to the stuff and they get gains. Call it placebo call it magic who cares it works. They're chuckling when they read posts that the stuff is crap. If I were still college age and hadn't done alot of AAS in my life I might join you. But niether is true. I'm a skeptic and as far as what they hold for me personally - i'm a non-believer!

And hwo can you really argue with this post. Great post bro.

[Ex_banana-eater]

Originally posted by hitmeoff
1-AD is the prohormone to 1-Test, when you take 1-AD it converts to 1-Test, 1-Test is the actual active compund, the actual steroid. I dont knwo why 1-Test isnt controlled yet, but it might very well be since it is itself supposed ot be a steroid. So when you take 1-Test (not 1-AD), there is no conversion.

And your right Hammer, you cant trust the supplement companie, and you cant trust the government, both are likely to over-exagerrate anything they publish. The only thing you can rely on is what your fellow bro's results have been.

Im with you, for the effect, the amount of sides, and the cost, PHs arent worth it to me. Its silly when ever I talk to someone who says theyd do PHs but not AAS. Thats flowed logic, because if the PHs do work for them (convert to the targer hormone) then they are doing steroids, just real expensive, inefficient steroids.

i could safely say that you did not get steroid like results because of the poor research on your part about the delivery of your prohormones. you went orally. right there that cuts off about 70% of the bioavailability. then, the conversion of 1-ad to 1-test only ends up being like 20% actual 1-test. however if you injected or transdermally took 1-test, you would have seen noticable results.

[Pete235]

Originally posted by Ex_banana-eater
i could safely say that you did not get steroid like results because of the poor research on your part about the delivery of your prohormones.

Oy maybe, just maybe, he didn't get steroid like results because pro-hormones are not steroids.

[dtdionne]

I hate to raise a dead point but i was wondering if 1ad or 1test shuts down your natural test production?

I have done cyp before and didnt like the water retention so i ran it with adex and it was a weird experiece. And i hated the post cycle therapy of clomid while still loosing some gains, getting weak, depressed and hearing people say, wow you have gotten smaller. It is a very unmotivating experience, so i would do 1test over test if that didnt happen.

[Hangman]

The biggest point why most people want to take PHs are-THEY ARE LEGAL!!! In the USA for now, anyway. In any event, taking these products orally is in my opinion, a waste of money. Not that they can't work, it just takes so much more of the substance, and money, to get get any real results. While transdermal is an option, injections work the best. I've seen people get nice gains while using the stuff IM...

However, once you convert the PHs and inject them, then you are breaking the law. So for those of you out there that have moral/legal issues with AAS and just in breaking the law in general, you are shorting yourself on the tremedous gains that could be made with only using PHs. Since of course, injecting any substance without a valid medical reason is illegal. Damn, even injecting B12 on your own accord is illegal.

Being a law biding citizen is a bitch isn't it

[clockworks]

why take prohormones instead of AAS? the answer is simple: i've been looking for AAS for 12 months now and i still can't find any...=P

-- clocky baby

p.s. where can i find more info on injecting 1-test? like dosages, how to do it, etc? also, what is a good brand to get, and where do i get it?

[Jeff1]

I myself dont like pro hormones cuz way before I tried juice.I did a cycle of SAN T100 & A100 I broke out in a freaking rash
all over the place. I went back to GNC where I had bought these things and the guy there just said oh thats just a side effect dont worry about I was like man its freaking allercic reaaction bro? I felft kind domb prohormones are just sides in a bottle to me I did not take well to them. SO I dont thinkI will ever take them again.

[powerlifter]

That is why this forum rocks - education and discussion - Long live the AR

[powerlifter]

Amen Pete - Amen

[powerlifter]

Lewd - LMAO

[killu2night]

Here is what andro products did for me And Im NOT trying to put down Hammermeads post or anybody else But In 1999 I started bodybiulding And gave up boozing at 6'4 180 In late 1999 I took every kind of Andro or pro horm that was out there I would spend over $100 A week on the stuff I had no Idea how to get juice or use it. I got up to about 205 and 15% bf and had a little shape. After about 6 months of this I got weaker and lost wieght. Finally somone steers me to a doc who checks my test level and it is a whopping 125 so he starts Hitting me with 600mg test a week for 9 weeks I come off he tests me again 205 he ****s and go back to 600mg a week I have been using this docter on and off every since IT is a so cool to go to the pharmacy and hand them a script for 3 bottles of 200 depot and pay total NINE BUCKS with my insurance card of course And In between all this Im cycling every thing under the sun. I go off a cycle crash for a week go to the doc get a test get a script and Im off in 2003 a doc wrote me a script that in the end with all the refills I had 20 bottles saved up I still have 3 or 4 left. So to make a long story short andro product Introduced me to the real deal And IM a happy camper And Im now 255 15 % bf solid as a rock and probably dumb as one too.......