Sorry about that, you never know what to believe on those private boards. Didn't mean to offend you if I did but I'm sure you already know where I got that info from. Thanks for responding.Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
Senior Member
Sorry about that, you never know what to believe on those private boards. Didn't mean to offend you if I did but I'm sure you already know where I got that info from. Thanks for responding.
Associate Member
he obviously works for that company! LOL
Associate Member
anthony do you think these results would be uniform for the epistane clones as well? RPN makes on called Havoc and their is the one made by Spectra Force Research called Humaguno(sp)or methyl e from EST? or do you have more faith in one of those three companies?
Last edited by unvme9180; 04-13-2007 at 07:12 PM.
Associate Member
I usually don't get political, but here it goes.
Hmmm, I wonder who will best be served in the end - not us the consumer!!!.
Because of things like these, people stepping over each other toes, bashing competing companies products, things will get for the worse in the industry. Research companies thrive on end user feedback, so whether it's AR or (*BE), if their products are not up to par, sooner or later it will catch up with them.
Here is a little analogy: if I'm an AAS user and I'm using EPI, I don't think I will be contacting FDA about the product. First, I'm using illegal substances myself, second, we all go to those research companies for the same products - weight aids, pct related, peptides. Now, why would I be reporting them to FDA again? Smells real fishy to me...
Anthony, I have enjoyed some of your writings, but this is getting ridiculous. You are criticizing 'Researcher' but tell me what looks worse. You started the thread and you obviously represent the other company. Not to question your ethics, but I don't think you are representing 'us' in here, just yourself and looking after your own interests. Sad, very sad indeed. Let's stop this nonsense, we are all adults here. If you're going to put 'competing' companies under the miscroscope, why don't you do the same for the companies that 'feed' you...
Anthony, as much as I have valued your input, if I were the owner of this board, I would ban you for steering things around. There is a pattern emerging - you and companies that don't feed you. It's not healthy for 'us' and let leave it to 'us', the users, to decide what is good for us and let 'us' be the judge.
And no, getting others to do your 'work' still counts as steering things around...leave things be.
Anabolic Member
The lab test is suspect without a reference.. did you guys even read the notes left by the people who ran the test? To paraphrase "we cannot say for sure what is in this. We compared to testosterone, and if it were testosterone, it would be at a lower dose than label claims."
That doesn't exhonerate the producer, but it casts considerable doubt.
Writer
What "other" company do I represent? I don't follow you...I don't produce a competing EPI product, and I didn't get the lab test done. I don't even own a chem company. I've no idea what "other" company I represent..I represent my own company, and my own interests...as does everyone who owns their own business.
You'd ban someone who writes for your site? That's interesting...because this is one of the boards that feeds me...
Writer
I'm not offended. But I will note that I think all private boards are garbage, honestly. Several years ago I resigned my membership to every single one on the 'net, and 99% of the time, when a site (even this one) offers to upgrade me to see their private forums, I decline.
Writer
Pat Arnold ran his own lab test also...and found the same thing, in his own Lab. Also..."whatever" is in it...there's only 3.8 mgs...there's no doubt about that...what's in doubt is "what" is actually in the bottle.
Anabolic Member
No. There's 3.8 mg.. if it were testosterone. If you'd ever run these tests yourself, you'd know that without a reference standard you can't learn anything about a compounds quantity, only it's qualities.
Listen, i'm not defending the company. I'm attacking the way you're spinning the lab report. It's misinformation.
I'd like to see pat's lab tests, and see if he was able to get a reference standard either.
PS. if there's no reference standard, chances are the hormone may not actually exist. The same companies that manufacture the hormones manufacture reference standards.
Last edited by Dude-Man; 04-14-2007 at 08:54 AM.
Writer
From what I've been told by people who know about these types of tests (which I do not), it's highly unlikely that this product contains Epistane, and certainly not in the right quantity.
I believe Pat Arnold is on record saying as much, and I kinda trust the guy...
Anabolic Member
That's fine with me, but fact is fact, and word of mouth is word of mouth. This lab test essentially says nothing except that they can't test for it.
But for the third time.. the company/product is suspect until a reference standard can be located and utilized. I wouldn't use this stuff for sure.
Writer
I don't have much faith in any of them...the company who just got bashed for not having real/accurate-dosed EPI in their product sent a letter to every distributor of the RPN PRODUCT saying...exactly what has just been said about their own...though...they failed to produce a lab report.
Yea, you read that correctly...the company who just got called out attempted to do the same thing to another company a week or two ago, but they went to all of their distributors and said it...not just to the public.
How's that for dick?
Oh...and as one member here so nicely put it...they also threatened to have me "whacked" and then to sue me:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...roberts+wacked
Writer
I wouldn't use anything from them...click the link in my last post...
Associate Member
I can't remember, AG guys, AR, or some other company. It's not relevant. The whole point of my post was that what you've posted does not serve the community at all. Lately, it seems that you stir up things for companies that you are not 'aligned' with.
It seems that in the beginning, you have contributed a lot. Now, you don't contribute much, and are always in the middle of a controversy - that's what I call stiring things up. Let's leave it alone...
Writer
Knowing that there's a bunk product on the market doesn't help the community?
Also...I've always been in the middle of controversy, and under the microscope. It comes with my job.
Associate Member
Thank you for showing us the lab results, i believe it.
you have my support
Anabolic Member
When you get a chance anthony, i'm curious to know what tests Pat Arnold ran, and whether or not he was able to procure a reference sample to compare them to. Did he use HPLC? mass spec? IR spec? Can you get copies of his printouts? I just think that it's ultra fishy that no one- including the company that is selling this stuff, can come up with a reference standard. Without one, the tests just don't mean much.
Disclaimer: I would not use this product.
Banned- Scammer!
I'd like to know what the **** I'm putting in my body, if I were to run it. If there's no reference, it could be anything.
Senior Member
ditto
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Roberts your not telling the whole truth again, this is a copy of of a statement from the company-
Many people who have been following the progression of *** over the last few years, are probably aware of the troubles we have been having with Anthony Roberts in his attempts to discredit our company and products. Well this is a message to him and any others who make it their business to spread lies and slander as truth. Below is a copy of the now officialy filed Lawsuit against Anthony Roberts in the State of Louisiana.
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY1.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY2.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY3.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY4.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY5.jpg
Also, we have a copy of the letter that was mailed to Mr. Roberts on March 21st requesting for him the remove/retract such statements. This was the final of many, many attempts via email and contact with our lawyer to have him make such retractions. He has responded only with mockery and even further accounts of libel against *****
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY6.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY7.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY8.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY9.jpg
We also, have several accounts since the letter date on March 21st of copied and filed alongside the lawsuit in regards to our Epistane product testing and even a statement from bodybuilding.com where he states "even if I helped bring them down". Not very smart to openly admit having participated in actions to try to bring a company down after they have asked on multiple occassions for you to cease and desist.
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY15.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY10.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY11.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY12.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY13.jpg
http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY14.jpg
__________________
Last edited by marcus300; 04-18-2007 at 02:18 AM.
Associate Member
ouch ...now that's some good fcuking research........
I think hooker needs to chime in to that comment.........
by the way I wouldn't use something either that no knows what's in it .......but I do think that our forums are being used for personal battles .........FACTS should be posted on products to help the fellow members on this board but all this damn back and forth crap with all these hidden reps trying to post here is a bunch of crap! seriously this is getting out of hand........
Writer
What would you like me to comment on?
Rick Collins has been consulted on this matter, and he said that not only does the company in question not have a case against me, but they would likely face criminal charges if they brought this to court.
Quoting (not verbatim) from Rick Collins explanation of the situation:
"We talked about the whole ***/Epistane thing and their "threats to sue
over libel/interference of free trade" - in order to "win anything" in either type of case
you'd have to show damages incurred.
"Since you're not allowed to sell and hence profit from illegal substances,
which Epistane most definetly is (no way it qualifies as a DSHEA compliant
food supplement) they can't claim anything you... since they
can't legally profit from it in the first place!
"Epistane is a misbranded drug and while not under the purview of the DEA,
it is under the jurisdiction of the FDA and state health officials in
Louisiana.
"So while they might win a case about libel/infringement of free trade,
when it came to assess damages, they'd be forced to provide a judge with a
detailed description of Epistane and the defense would be able to provide
a rebut. Since it is illegal, all proceeds from sales are illegal and it
would mean they have no claim to monetary damages from anyone they
successfully sued.
"The analogy used was that if hypothetically, you were selling Ectasy and I
came along and said, "don't buy Robert's X, it is underdosed by 60% and
isn't really even X" and then you tried to sue me for libel or infringing
on your ability to do business. If this business is not legal to begin
with, you can't expect the court to award you damages because I libelled
you and say your X was bunk."
It is also likely, if you read Collins asessment carefully, that they would not be able to sue me over any research chem issues either.
Remember, kiddies: I own an LLC. That's a LIMITED Liability Corporation. Someone can take my corporate holdings/money, because I was acting while representing my corporation, but they can not dip into my private holdings. And that's because I thought to shield myself from this kind of thing a long time ago....
Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 04-18-2007 at 07:47 AM.
Writer
Also...use some common sense...if I comitted a Crime in NJ (even on the internet), how can they bring me to Loiusiana to prosecute me? The crime occured in NJ...look up the precedents...
Associate Member
great analogy......
you made a good point there....
I just think that this back and forth between you guys is a bunch of crap.....we should be able to freely have a dicussion on a product that has a mystery substance in it which is being sold out to the public (which people are comsuming with out knowing what it is ) with out this damn bickering back and forth......all I want to know is this $hit legit and is it safe to consume!!! and I mean hard facts not just he said she said or possibility .....
sorry I'm just a little fustrated how political these damn boards can be and I felt like sharing my thoughts.....
thanx....
now back to the matter at hand....so does any actually know what the mystery substance is? .....
Associate Member
easy there .....no need to huff and puff......I asked for you to comment so that I can hear your side........
Writer
But...what does an attempted lawsuit against me have to do with the lab tests on an EpiStane product which I didn't even get done personally?
Did I mention there was a second set of tests done...?
The facts are the lab test. The Lawsuit *** is attempting to pursue against me has nothing to do with what's in their product. It's not even close to relevant.but I do think that our forums are being used for personal battles .........FACTS should be posted on products to help the fellow members on this board but all this damn back and forth crap with all these hidden reps trying to post here is a bunch of crap! seriously this is getting out of hand........
As for Hidden reps...I don't think Marcus is a hidden rep. He has hit up multiple sponsors via PM to try to get discounts and freebies on their products...promoting his "vet" status and the claim that he is a personal trainer in England, to try to get discounts and free stuff. If something has changed since he was doing that, I don't know, but if he were a rep, he likely wouldn't be hitting up every sponsor for a handout. Then again, maybe he has finally gotten one, and is acting on behalf of whoever gave it to him. I don't know.
Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 04-18-2007 at 08:06 AM.
Associate Member
yeah you mentioned it
Writer
My side of what, though? The lawsuit? It's idiotic. But it's not relevant to this thread. This should be about a product, and not me (at all). I reported a lab test, so therefore ***'s lawsuit with me is now relevant to the fact that they were producing a terrible product, according to lab tests?
I'm not getting huffy, sorry if it seemed that way...but in one breath you said that you wanted the facts, and in the next you are asking about something kind of not relevant...
You know?
Associate Member
wasn't talking about marcus bein a rep...I meant the guy with the 4 posts lol
Associate Member
I get you ,well I just wanted to hear your side of the story with the law suit issue and I said I wanted the facts in regards to the epistane mystery substance....
better?
Writer
OOps. I guess I gave out too much info, huh?
Writer
Well...my side of the lawsuit issue is that I'm not going to respond to their legal papers. I don't think they can subpeona me (force me to go defend the case), so I'm not even going to bother with it.
I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea if that's correct, but I know that I wasn't issued a summons, and when the papers were sent, they went to my parents house, where I do not live, and they were improperly addressed. I don't live there, so the papers (which required a signature) were just returned to sender.
If you're really interested, do a search for "Anthony Roberts" and "Whacked" and you can see some other stuff where they threatened me, and had one of their employees come and try to explain themselves...then for extra laughs, check out my blog post where I reprint all the e-mails they sent to me, including their lawyer's...
Also: Proof their Rep Lied to the members of steroid.com (screenshot included).
Associate Member
hahaha well I guess you got a free B on that one since you 2 are always going at it
lmao
Banned
I feel like theres a lot of AR bashing on this website for some reason. and its rediculous. obviously hes a good guy. Hes posting information that has value to everyone in this community. A bunk product needs to be known, or you can get scammed. do you like be scammed?
I didnt think so.
Why are you people arguing that hes not telling "the whole story". He posted f*cking lab reports. lab test dont lie!
Anothony you have my full support bro. A lot of people on this website feel like they need to be tough over the internet for some reason. some classic arguing and debating is ok in my book, but when u start bashing a person because you "dont like" them, and ecspecially doing it over the internet....well your just the fool.
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
They have lab reports saying 99% pure, Roberts really wants to damage this Company so dont you think something might of happen to his stuff he had tested?? come on think about it.
he had the links disabled but if you pm me i will direct you to the site were you can read the full story and all the links. makes very intresting reading, they wouldnt be going to court if they didnt have evidence.
pm me i will send them to you
Associate Member
Very ridiculous discussion. In order for this to be valid, you would have to test every single product on the market, including AAS and performance products. Instead people are popping pills and injecting left and right, going by word of mouth mostly.
It is a bit too convenient to me that some people are in the middle of a controversy for company they don't align with.
Now, that one product is in the open, the company should address any outstanding issues.
For those that took Epi, what was the feedback? Were people happy with the results? I mean, now everybody is crying murder after all this mess came to light.
Are we able to establish that the test itself was inconclusive? There are some questions surrounding the reference sample, how things were tested, margin or error and the like.
Banned
How can there be marginal error if they dont even no whats really in the product?
Banned
So after reading all the links and stuff, what i have concluded is thats its 2 people with 2 very different opnions. and 2 different sides backing up the other, when no one really no whats going down at all. its all speculation. someones no telling the whole truth. But lawsuits? Why? Anthony has every right to expose a fraudulent company as do any of us.
But im seeing no results from ********* Where are the tests to prove that there product is legit? all im seeing is a bunch of links that showed me that ********* has filed a lawsuit again connors. and other links that show me why they filed lawsuits again him.
so what if he talked about bad about the company? people talk bad about companys all the time! it how buisness is run. Its how certian comapnys get ahead, and its also why companys fail. If your legit you make it, if your not legit you fail. (Unless your muscletech) so there suing for false claims? Obviously this company has somthing to hide if there suing anthony over somthing as small as this. if there products were actully legit these posts by connors would have no merit. but obviously they do have merit because they are stirring huge amount of controversy.
The way I see it is this company is heading for the sh*t house and they dont what to do. so there suing someone to try and get back there good rep. but unfortunetly it doesnt look like its going to work.
Just my 2 pennies
Last edited by K.Biz; 04-18-2007 at 10:43 AM.
Associate Member
Wasn't there a mention that they referenced it against test? There are other questions regarding the test and I would suggest you go and read about it.
Everyone seems to be focusing on the little things. Look at the big picture, supplements in general, and individual use. As I said, ridiculous. People will have to get past this 'she said, he said' business.
For the record, never took Epistane and probably never will.
Edit: used their other products and I'm happy so far.
Writer
Umm...I didn't have anything disabled. You can't outlink to that site.
Also...I never touched the lab test, nor the product, nor did the person who got them tested (Mike). The product which was tested was never in Mike's posession...read the COC letter in the test.
The bottle was never touched by the person who paid for the sample to be sent in.
As far as going to court, I sincerely doubt that. But hey....multiple lawyers could be wrong, I suppose.
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