This is a good thread, so I'll offer my opinion on the question. From what I have seen, there are alot of newbies who come on here and post that they have been using orals and made gains off them. They continue to explain their problems and ask for advice. I don't know if anyone still remembers that one guy who was 'taking sustanon 250' which turned out to be dbol tabs in a sustanon box. I think when newbies decide to take 'steroids' they usually think orals, and the most common are dbol or another 17-aa which will only benefit them (in the long run) if they are stacking them. The point is that they have not educated themselves in the subject of AS, and they have not done enough research. HH, I think that you are trying to find something that we can say to these guys who initially refuse to 'mess with needles', but I don't think we should offer any advice to them, except to research and learn more. The decision to use AS in their training should be one that is well researched and that person needs to weigh the benefits vs. the risks. The easy solution is to tell them to use andriol, but the better solution is to tell them to use the search function and start learning more.