Ron Paul's Economic Revival Plan

[Pooks]

Ron paul knows whats up..

Problem is too many stupid people who get "awed" everytime the fiscally irresponsible government rolls out a new GOVT PROJECT...

like Flakldlfkslsfksjsjaian lately, aka Johan, when he mentioned so much 'concern' about NASA. (no offense meant karnfskj... I just finally got a rebuttal hehe)

People get awed' by NASA's accomplishments, and they see it as something that creates jobs..

but they don't realize that it is Tax money funding these projects.. and that money could had gone towards each of us buying what we really want to buy.. like nice suits, cars etc... and job creating because the private sector would have that money available to hire people..

so eliminating NASA does not elimiate jobs, it will create more jobs elsewhere, and it addition it will let each one of us spend that money to buy suits, cars, etc, which will stimulate the economy, just as much as these NASA space ships are stimulating the economy too..
SAME DIFFERENCE.. except in 1. we get what we really want.. and in 2. it gets spent on bullshit picture of space that awe ignorant people. heh lol and feed this political machine of govt control over our spending...

But what about all those discoveries made by NASA that are used today also in the private sector, a brainwashed socialist peon would say next!!!..

GUESS WHAT!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THE DISCOVERIES THAT DID NOT HAPPEN in other areas of research because of all this money being spent on space research!!!!!!!!!!!..

Its easy to see what we have.. but its not see easy to see what we might have had!!!
UMUFTHA****IDIEE!!! hehehe
KILL THEM ALL RON PAUL!!!!

[Logan13]

Ron paul knows whats up..

Problem is too many stupid people who get "awed" everytime the fiscally irresponsible government rolls out a new GOVT PROJECT...

like Flakldlfkslsfksjsjaian lately, aka Johan, when he mentioned so much 'concern' about NASA. (no offense meant karnfskj... I just finally got a rebuttal hehe)

People get awed' by NASA's accomplishments, and they see it as something that creates jobs..

but they don't realize that it is Tax money funding these projects.. and that money could had gone towards each of us buying what we really want to buy.. like nice suits, cars etc... and job creating because the private sector would have that money available to hire people..

so eliminating NASA does not elimiate jobs, it will create more jobs elsewhere, and it addition it will let each one of us spend that money to buy suits, cars, etc, which will stimulate the economy, just as much as these NASA space ships are stimulating the economy too..
SAME DIFFERENCE.. except in 1. we get what we really want.. and in 2. it gets spent on bullshit picture of space that awe ignorant people. heh lol and feed this political machine of govt control over our spending...

But what about all those discoveries made by NASA that are used today also in the private sector, a brainwashed socialist peon would say next!!!..

GUESS WHAT!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THE DISCOVERIES THAT DID NOT HAPPEN in other areas of research because of all this money being spent on space research!!!!!!!!!!!..

Its easy to see what we have.. but its not see easy to see what we might have had!!!
UMUFTHA****IDIEE!!! hehehe
KILL THEM ALL RON PAUL!!!!

you make good points. If space exploration were moved to the private sector, we would be light years ahead of where we are now.

[Amorphic]

you make good points. If space exploration were moved to the private sector, we would be light years ahead of where we are now.

very true. virgin galactic is pushing ahead pretty hard. (or trying to at least)

[Logan13]

Ron paul knows whats up..

I do not believe that the average citizen understands how much it truely effects them when government increases in size.
- Gov't increases in size
- The number of lobbyists grows exponentially
- Earmarks on funding bills increases
- The average citizen pays for it through taxation

Those of you who bitch about "corporations" having too much power need to open your eyes and understand that corporations have gotten more power simply because gov't has gotten so big. Which groups have the money to pay these lobbyists? It's not your local Mom&Pop stores, it is big business. So for those of you who want the gov't to supply you with all the "wants" in your life(i.e. socialized healthcare) but then complain abour corporate fatcats...remember that you are getting what You wanted!.
A Capitalistic society does not need gov't jumping in and regulating everything under the sun. Every gov't regulation, every gov't agency created to oversee said regulation, every gov't program created, every gov't agency created to run said programs is paid for by taxpayers. If you get more money back every year than you pay in, you are NOT a taxpayer. You are the reason gov't has gotten so large.........

The pursuit of happiness rests on the shoulders of every individual, not every individual handout!
-Logan13

[Pooks]

So for those of you who want the gov't to supply you with all the "wants" in your life(i.e. socialized healthcare) [/I]!
-Logan13

Yup, universal healtcare is in fact subsidized health care...

and what people don't realize, what will happen is, A) People who don't deserve to get healthcare will be getting it. and B) People who really deserve it, will not get it.


People already complain about crowded hospital and doctor visits..

With Universal Healhcare you will have every person going to the doctor, some people numerous times on a weekly basis, over nothing but a common cold... or regarding the same problem numberous and countless times..

That doesn't sound to bad right? in fact a lot of people would say, GREAT!..

yah REAL GREAT!!
when PERSON B!!
who just had a heart attack, or someone who is really disabled and barely has enough energy to drag himself to a hospital has to do so..

His service will suffer.. He will actually be turned away from going to the doctor, because the waits will to much for him to deal with..

so those people who need service, will suffer, because other people are taking advantage of the system.
Universal Healthcare will also INCREASE cost!!!!! u will see it in the form of increased taxes or increased inflation!


What Healcare needs is Private invention, and streamlining..
They need to incorporate the Internet to eliminate waiting rooms..
They need weed out a lot of cases, they need to make things function better..
This will be achieved through innovation, and private enteprises and with creation of new jobs that do not exist yet.

Than costs will go down too.

[SMCengineer]

I do not believe that the average citizen understands how much it truely effects them when government increases in size.
- Gov't increases in size
- The number of lobbyists grows exponentially
- Earmarks on funding bills increases
- The average citizen pays for it through taxation

Those of you who bitch about "corporations" having too much power need to open your eyes and understand that corporations have gotten more power simply because gov't has gotten so big. Which groups have the money to pay these lobbyists? It's not your local Mom&Pop stores, it is big business. So for those of you who want the gov't to supply you with all the "wants" in your life(i.e. socialized healthcare) but then complain abour corporate fatcats...remember that you are getting what You wanted!.
A Capitalistic society does not need gov't jumping in and regulating everything under the sun. Every gov't regulation, every gov't agency created to oversee said regulation, every gov't program created, every gov't agency created to run said programs is paid for by taxpayers. If you get more money back every year than you pay in, you are NOT a taxpayer. You are the reason gov't has gotten so large.........

The pursuit of happiness rests on the shoulders of every individual, not every individual handout!
-Logan13

Your sounding more and more like a Ron Paul supporter. Good post by the way.

[Kärnfysikern]

People get awed' by NASA's accomplishments, and they see it as something that creates jobs..

but they don't realize that it is Tax money funding these projects.. and that money could had gone towards each of us buying what we really want to buy.. like nice suits, cars etc... and job creating because the private sector would have that money available to hire people..

Without NASA there would have been no communication satellites among other things. We would have been nowhere at all when it comes to space. The private sector does not invest in multi billion dollar projects that might payoff in 20 years if even that.

2. it gets spent on bullshit picture of space that awe ignorant people

Those bullshit pictures are not taken to impress people. They contain vital information to understand this universe. There is no reasonable price tag on revolutionizing our knoweledge of the universe.

But what about all those discoveries made by NASA that are used today also in the private sector, a brainwashed socialist peon would say next!!!..

GUESS WHAT!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THE DISCOVERIES THAT DID NOT HAPPEN in other areas of research because of all this money being spent on space research!!!!!!!!!!!..

Yeah I mean discovering things like the Big bang and the evolution of the universe isnt anything when we might have had a ipod that is one tenth of a inch slimmer instead.

you make good points. If space exploration were moved to the private sector, we would be light years ahead of where we are now.

No way. There would be no space exploration today without the invesments made by the US and former soviet. The private companies are so far behind that its silly. They dont fly much higher than the spy planes did in the 60's. They are still not even close to reaching orbit. They might get there in 20 years. But even then their acomplishments and technology rest completely on what Von Braun and others did at nasa in the 50's. Without nasa they would not get anywhere because there would be no knoweledge base to build on.

[goodcents]

Without NASA there would have been no communication satellites among other things. We would have been nowhere at all when it comes to space. The private sector does not invest in multi billion dollar projects that might payoff in 20 years if even that.




Those bullshit pictures are not taken to impress people. They contain vital information to understand this universe. There is no reasonable price tag on revolutionizing our knoweledge of the universe.



Yeah I mean discovering things like the Big bang and the evolution of the universe isnt anything when we might have had a ipod that is one tenth of a inch slimmer instead.





No way. There would be no space exploration today without the invesments made by the US and former soviet. The private companies are so far behind that its silly. They dont fly much higher than the spy planes did in the 60's. They are still not even close to reaching orbit. They might get there in 20 years. But even then their acomplishments and technology rest completely on what Von Braun and others did at nasa in the 50's. Without nasa they would not get anywhere because there would be no knoweledge base to build on.

As soon as I get done porking my face we are going to have an old fashion debate


So if it gets too heated just remember

[Kärnfysikern]

Bring it on

I just want to give a few examples of research that would not be done without state funding.

Hubble telescope.
I dont think any scientific experiment has done as much to advance human knoweledge as the hubble. This project has cost something betwen 4,5-6 billion $. Will there ever be any "profit" from this? Who knows, but it has shed light on the shortcommings of the current scientific theories, new theories might bring new technology but that is something we will know in perhaps 30-40 years. Its impossible to know in the same way that it was impossible to know in the begining of the 20th century that the theoreis developed by einstein, heisenberg, fermi, schrödinger ect would lead to nuclear power and computers.

CERN.
Biggest physics lab in the world. Costs one billion a year to run, countless billions to build and uppgrade. Just like hubble it has produced some extremely important scientific discoveries and plenty of nobel prizes. Like with hubble there is no telling if there ever will be any tech made out of the science discovered. But CERN was the birthplace for the world wide web and I guess that can be called quite important


ITER and other fusion reactors.
The cost of ITER is close to 15 billion $. If succesfull it might give rise to a economic and unlimited source of energy in 40 years or so. No company would ever put 15 billion into a project that might give return on investment in 40 years. ITER is just a fraction of the investments made in fusion by goverments all over the world for a very long time.

Todays nuclear reactors.
Almost all of the comercial reactors of today are based on a design made by westinghouse for the US nuclear fleet. The entire field of reactor technology was born and developed by the american national labs(and offcourse the russians aswell). Today nuclear power is offcourse cheap, plentifull and competitive and has payed back every cent ever put into it. But without those huge investments in the begining by goverments there wouldnt be any comercial nuclear power.

Fourth generation nuclear power.
Research is mainly done by universities and national labs. The investments from private companies are exceedingly small. The technology is predicted to be competitive around 2020 and beyond and it has huge, almost unlimited potential. But even though we are only talking about 10-15 years into the future the industry doesnt not want to invest.

A example of future development that relies on state funding. There is absolutely no profit to be made of going to the moon in the short term(30 years or so). But in the long term it could be the doorway into space mining and other enterprises that might bring alot of money. Would any company put tens of billions into going to the moon knowing they might possibly make a profit in 50 years?

The big difference betwen research done by private companies and research made by national labs and universities is that the national labs/unis have the goal of advancing science and developing long term technology. The research done by companies is extremely applied and short term. If it cant be applied within a few years its not a safe enough investment.

[Logan13]

Without NASA there would have been no communication satellites among other things. We would have been nowhere at all when it comes to space. The private sector does not invest in multi billion dollar projects that might payoff in 20 years if even that.




Those bullshit pictures are not taken to impress people. They contain vital information to understand this universe. There is no reasonable price tag on revolutionizing our knoweledge of the universe.



Yeah I mean discovering things like the Big bang and the evolution of the universe isnt anything when we might have had a ipod that is one tenth of a inch slimmer instead.





No way. There would be no space exploration today without the invesments made by the US and former soviet. The private companies are so far behind that its silly. They dont fly much higher than the spy planes did in the 60's. They are still not even close to reaching orbit. They might get there in 20 years. But even then their acomplishments and technology rest completely on what Von Braun and others did at nasa in the 50's. Without nasa they would not get anywhere because there would be no knoweledge base to build on.

Not to single you out, but you do live in a socialist country. (i.e., you do not have the faith in the free market that many of us do.)

[Kärnfysikern]

Not to single you out, but you do live in a socialist country. (i.e., you do not have the faith in the free market that many of us do.)

You make it sound like I live in a communist state Im more right leaning than I am left.

But its not about having faith in the free market. Research done by private companies has different goals and different purposes. Thats why it will never be able to replace research done at places like CERN, GSI, Fermilab, NASA ect.

You can not expect companies to invest billions and billions into research projects that will not make a profit, why should they?

I am pro space exploration as well, however, Nasa is wasteful as hell. They are incredibly inefficient, spend tons of money, and get little accomplished unless there is a fire lit under their asses.
I am not certain what to do about that problem though. Karnfy dude has a point about huge projects, and I have discussed this issue with others before.
Independent business doesn't invest in space exploration because it takes huge effort and money to get anywhere with little return and miniscule gain. Business would call it a foolhardy investment. I think it is imperative that we continue to explore space and beyond. I want to see a base on the moon, and a mars landing within the next 10 years, a totally attainable goal, but I seriously doubt that will happen. We're too f-ed up down here fighting over who's god has a bigger dick.

I think NASA has to bad reputation. They screw up nowdays when it comes to manned spaceflight. But the space probes like Cassini and the mars rover are extraordinary.