Teamsters to endorse Obama... GO OBAMA!

[alphaman]

I agree, "Thou Shalt Not Judge" isn't in the Bible. However, something quite similar is in the Sermon On The Mount:

Luke 6:37
"37": Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:







I'd like to hear what Christian politicians have to say about adultery. After all, the adultery issue rates its very own Commandment:

Exodus 20:14
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

IMHO, things specifically mentioned in the Bible should be addressed before things that aren't, especially adulterers and Sabbath-breakers who the Bible says should be put to death:

Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.


So, before Obama (or any politician, for that matter) comments on issues of lesser Biblical significance like abortion, I'd like to hear what they have to say about life and death issues like adultery and Sabbath-breaking.

What do you think?

You can see above that I've addressed these things in my last post. (see covenant of law vs. covenant of grace).

But I will point out that if Obama tried to pass legslation sayiing that people shouldn't be penalized in divorce court because it's okay to cheat on your spouse, I would say that's against what the Bible says. I'd say the same if he tried to pass a law that we all had to work on Sunday. etc..

And after all if you look in Lev 20... it seems that child sacrifice is at the top of God's list in things that are punishable by death. He not only mentions it first (before the gay thing), but there's a whole paragraph about it and He repeats it 3 times!! And as explicit as he describes the punishment for such a crime, I'd say He feels more strongly wbout it than any other issue in the chapter.

Leviticus 20
Punishments for Sin
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, 5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him

[Tock]

And after all if you look in Lev 20... it seems that child sacrifice is at the top of God's list in things that are punishable by death.

Leviticus 20
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death.

It's not so much against child sacrifice as it is against giving their children to Molech. One might make a case that while it's not ok to give children to Molech, it might be ok to give them to a different god. Less-lech, perhaps.

Also . . . there is the story (admittedly fictitious -- don't you agree?) about Jepththah and the daughter he sacrificed. Here is Wikipedia's take on things:

------------------------------------------------
Another instance of human sacrifice mentioned in the Bible is the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter in Judges 11. Jephthah is victorious in battle against the children of Ammon and vows to sacrifice to God whatsoever comes to greet him at the door when he returns home. The vow is stated in Judges 11:31 as
"Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering." When he returns from battle, his virgin daughter runs out to greet him. That he actually does sacrifice her is shown in verse 11:39 "And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed". This example seems to be the exception rather than the rule, however, as the verse continues "And she was a virgin. From this comes the Israelite custom that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.".
-------------------------------

Well, as unfortunate as that tragedy was, Jehovah, who evidently was in regular communication with his favorite guy (Jepththa), didn't object to this bit of child sacrifice.

Let's assume a few things:
1) Jehovah is all-powerful, all-knowing
2) Jehovah knew that Jepthah was about to sacrifice his daughter
3) Jehovah could have intervened to save an innocent life, but chose not to.

So, we can safely conclude from that story that Jehovah doesn't object too strongly to child sacrifice, if at all. Contrary to the prohibitions against such things of Leviticus 20 (see above), Jepthah was not punished for what he did, even though he did what he did in full view of Jehovah. Thus, child sacrifice is not, as you allege, "at the top of God's list in things that are punishable by death."

[alphaman]

** Disclaimer ** I am not mad at Tock at didn't intened for any of these posts to seem inflammatory. Tock and I have been through this type of thing many times. I apologize in advance if anyone is offended.

It's not so much against child sacrifice as it is against giving their children to Molech. One might make a case that while it's not ok to give children to Molech, it might be ok to give them to a different god. Less-lech, perhaps.

That's preposterous and you know it. I was just pointing out that child sacrifice was shown to be a greater sin than homosexuality in the passage YOU CITED. I can cite a ton of verses that condemn child sacrifice in the Bible.

I shouldn't have even pandered to your "skipping record" of an agenda... and of course.... that's what you always want to talk about. You have more of a hang-up on homosexuality than anyone I have ever come across. You perpetuate what you try to alieviate by doing this.

Also . . . there is the story (admittedly fictitious -- don't you agree?) about Jepththah and the daughter he sacrificed. Here is Wikipedia's take on things:

------------------------------------------------
Another instance of human sacrifice mentioned in the Bible is the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter in Judges 11. Jephthah is victorious in battle against the children of Ammon and vows to sacrifice to God whatsoever comes to greet him at the door when he returns home. The vow is stated in Judges 11:31 as
"Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering." When he returns from battle, his virgin daughter runs out to greet him. That he actually does sacrifice her is shown in verse 11:39 "And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed". This example seems to be the exception rather than the rule, however, as the verse continues "And she was a virgin. From this comes the Israelite custom that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.".
-------------------------------

Well, as unfortunate as that tragedy was, Jehovah, who evidently was in regular communication with his favorite guy (Jepththa), didn't object to this bit of child sacrifice.

Let's assume a few things:
1) Jehovah is all-powerful, all-knowing
2) Jehovah knew that Jepthah was about to sacrifice his daughter
3) Jehovah could have intervened to save an innocent life, but chose not to.

So, we can safely conclude from that story that Jehovah doesn't object too strongly to child sacrifice, if at all. Contrary to the prohibitions against such things of Leviticus 20 (see above), Jepthah was not punished for what he did, even though he did what he did in full view of Jehovah. Thus, child sacrifice is not, as you allege, "at the top of God's list in things that are punishable by death."

You are hilarious Tock. As easily as you can pull this highly controversial, and widely misunderstood passage from your arsenal, you must know that she wasn't sacrificed.

Under the Law, his firstborn already belonged to God.. so sacrifice was pointless... out of the question... not possible... and detested by God. Jephthah was upset because he had to force his daughter to serve God solely in her life, and not to marry (notice that she knew this too, and wasn't worried about a short life, but rather the fact that she would remain a virgin).

Jephthah tore his clothes because he knew his line was coming to an end, which was a horrible thing to an Israelite in this time. It was his punishment for making a vow to God because he wanted something for his offer, before he gave it up to God (kinda like when people say, "God, do this one thing and I'll be good... I promise).

He intended to offer God an animal as was customary in this time, and was stricken when he first saw his daughter, realizing what he had done.

If anyone is interested, this link does a good job explaining in more detail...

http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org...hsDaughter.htm