best cycle for lean gains and fat loss

[jojotheman]

serious question, im starting my third cycle soon. im looking for it to last about 12 weeks, but what i want most is the best lean muscle gain / fat loss ratio. il probs want to stay away from any tren atm as i heard its quite hardcore, also masteron is perhaps edging out of my price range. im 5'8, 200lbs, 13% body fat. what is the cycle for me and what gains can i expect? thanks jojo

[greekboy]

first off most everyone on here will tell you either bulk up or cut. But i myslef am about to start a cycle that is suppose to build muscle and trim the fat off. I can tell you from experience tren is awesome at doing just that. but if you dont do it right it will straight f you up. whats your cycle look like?

[Bigmax]

Bro,200lbs @ 13% bf is not too bad and can be fine tuned with proper nutrition and cardio...Like brother asked...what is your proposed cycle??

[greekboy]

i would love to be at 13% mine has gotten way higher and im only a couple inches taller. Bigmax is def right you could get where you wanted easily without aas imo.

[jojotheman]

hmmm thanks for the advice and compliments, but you know how it is... wanna get bigger, and leaner, quicker. i was thinkin something like test and equipoise, winny and anavar? im not really an experienced user. i will consider the tren tho? i would like to limit the amount of injections i have to do. how often does one have to inject tren to have a good effect?

[greekboy]

tren is at least eod. equipoise winny and anavar wont be good you need a testosterone in there somewhere. i suggest test propianate the water retention is lower. My cycle is test prop, winny, and proviron, maybe some hcg during.

[greekboy]

With you stats, i think test prop and winny would do the trick. And a post cycle of course. test prop would need to be injected eod too. If you use winny will you get tablet or inj?

[HolyBlade]

F what i said , rushed thru reading your post and missed the part where it's your 3rd cycle.

Prop and winny can do the trick like said before

[jojotheman]

ok sounds good, what is i use test enathate instead, limiting me to injecting it once per week and then getting something to combat water retention, will using enanthate have less effect?

[greekboy]

no i like test enth. what u planning on using to combat water retention, winny will help doing that.

[HolyBlade]

ok sounds good, what is i use test enathate instead, limiting me to injecting it once per week and then getting something to combat water retention, will using enanthate have less effect?

Nope ,test is test on the base level.
winny keeps your pretty dry and if your diet is solid ( and it should be ) water gains will not be drastic at all .

[jojotheman]

ok.. great. i think were getting somewhere. so how about:

400mg test enanthate/wk
50mg winny every day
50mg proviron every day
75mg tren EOD

for solid gains and reduction in bodyfat

and PCT

sound good? any adjustments?

[greekboy]

proviron maybe. No tren. from your questions i dont think your ready for tren. no offense bud. not to mention its quite expensive and needs to be inj at least eod. I really think test enth and winny will be enough for you.

[HolyBlade]

ok.. great. i think were getting somewhere. so how about:

400mg test enanthate/wk
50mg winny every day
50mg proviron every day
75mg tren EOD

for solid gains and reduction in bodyfat

and PCT

sound good? any adjustments?

looks solid ,you can even drop the proviron i think
and if you dont want to poke yourself too much you can use tren E 200mg every 4 days or so.

[HolyBlade]

proviron maybe. No tren. from your questions i dont think your ready for tren. no offense bud. not to mention its quite expensive and needs to be inj at least eod. I really think test enth and winny will be enough for you.

i think he could handle a low dose of Tren E
but you have a point ,if he can get the desired results with less gear ,then he should go with your option.

[greekboy]

try this
500 mg test enanthate/week - 8 weeks
50 mg winny/day-10 weeks
post cycle starts 2 weeks after your lat test inj

you will get the results you want with that. You have to make sure your diet is in check though or its all pointless.

[greekboy]

i was going off his original post about $$$$ and wanting to keep injections frequency low

[HolyBlade]

i was going off his original post about $$$$ and wanting to keep injections frequency low

i understand ,and like i said you DO have a point.

[jojotheman]

hmmm, stuff to think about. can you please explain to me why tren is so hardcore tho?

[greekboy]

read the profile it pretty good. you can do a search on the forums some of the brothers have done some extensive posts on it i read a bunch before i ever touched it. If i recall the esters in it are considerably stronger than that of test. If your set on it i do believe they make tren enanthate now, longer ester, half life is longer so u wouldnt havent inject as often. not positive though

[HolyBlade]

hmmm, stuff to think about. can you please explain to me why tren is so hardcore tho?

Tren is the strongest injectble out there ,4 times more anbolic then test ,and 4 times more androgenic ,it has some nasty sides ( but those vary from person to person ) and when i took it the first time i had some issues with mood swings ,but that was far more related to being in a crappy place in my life rather then being "on"

tren brings grest gains but it's not very easy to handle at first.

[greekboy]

By the way if you look on the profiles page its under finaplix, and i checked there is a tren enanthate.

[jojotheman]

tren sounds pretty cool, i wanna give it ago. guess il never know unless i try. i think il start a new thread on my biggining experience with it. jojotheman