CEE help

[BrokenBricks]

BodyBuilders like Pinnacle have been in this game for 20years+ and he still advises, BCAAs, Creatine, Glutamine and Lecuine...He competes at a high national level...and...is...Massive.

I'll take that over any clinical study any day of the week/month/year. Peroid.

I am sorry but this is just a display of extremely poor critical thinking. It just doesn't prove anything. Our public schools are failing our children.

[Swifto]

I am sorry but this is just a display of extremely poor critical thinking. It just doesn't prove anything. Our public schools are failing our children.

Its 20+ years of trial and error. He's also been training athletes/bodybuilders for years. No 'poor critical thinking' here.

Why dont you medical students or trainee doctors take into account years of experience? To many variables I'm guessing...?

[BrokenBricks]

Its 20+ years of trial and error. He's also been training athletes/bodybuilders for years. No 'poor critical thinking' here.

Why dont you medical students or trainee doctors take into account years of experience? To many variables I'm guessing...?

It is not that it is not taken into account. It is that it is not the preferred source of information. If I can show you *one* pro who *doesn't* use a given supplement (Glutamine for instance) who is as big as your pet pro you would be in quite a jam. That is the problem with expert opinion. There are many so called experts. Many people all claiming they know the answer. If the *only* information you have is that type...personal testimony..well, you don't ignore it. It is all you have to go on. But you retain in your mind an awareness of where the information came from.

I have a sort of kooky, new age neighbor who puts crystals in her pots to make the plants grow better. She says it gives them energy. I asked if she had ever tested it. She was sort of annoyed and said that last year her plants did not do as well as they had this year since she added the crystals. I told her that was interesting and asked if she had changed anything else. "Well yes, this year I moved them closer to the window". How she failed to consider the better growth was likely due to the *known* effects of sunlight rather than the *unknown* effect of adding quartz crystal was odd. I asked, had she ever tried to put a crystal in the soil of *half* the plants and not the other half. She looked at me like I had three heads.

Do you understand the placebo effect?

[BrokenBricks]

As far as which supplements I take. ECA stack, whey and creatine. Strong randomized controlled trials support all three. There is no good data showing any benefit to a multi-vitamin in normal health meat eating non athletes to my knowledge. I take one because they are cheap, I like neon urine and I have not had the time to do more reading about studies of a multivitamin in athletes.

I have not looked into many other products which may well work. If I heard rave reviews and no studies had been done I would likely give it a shot depending on the price. I think it is likely there are substances out there which would benefit me, but I am not going to shotgun the question and just take everything someone with a magazine is willing to print a testimonial for.

[Swifto]

It is not that it is not taken into account. It is that it is not the preferred source of information. If I can show you *one* pro who *doesn't* use a given supplement (Glutamine for instance) who is as big as your pet pro you would be in quite a jam. That is the problem with expert opinion. There are many so called experts. Many people all claiming they know the answer. If the *only* information you have is that type...personal testimony..well, you don't ignore it. It is all you have to go on. But you retain in your mind an awareness of where the information came from.

I have a sort of kooky, new age neighbor who puts crystals in her pots to make the plants grow better. She says it gives them energy. I asked if she had ever tested it. She was sort of annoyed and said that last year her plants did not do as well as they had this year since she added the crystals. I told her that was interesting and asked if she had changed anything else. "Well yes, this year I moved them closer to the window". How she failed to consider the better growth was likely due to the *known* effects of sunlight rather than the *unknown* effect of adding quartz crystal was odd. I asked, had she ever tried to put a crystal in the soil of *half* the plants and not the other half. She looked at me like I had three heads.

Do you understand the placebo effect?

I understand it, of course.

But he's also trained many other athlete/bodybuilders...

Dont get me wrong BB, I see exactly what your saying, but it seems to works for me (gains in strength, mass, recovery) vs.
not doing it. And...I havent changed a whole lot either.

But I see your point doc.

When do you take your Whey and Creatine? Pre/post.

[BrokenBricks]

I am conscious of the research showing creatine with a high GI carb right after the work out is best. But usually I take when I can and accept the imperfect gains. I try and eat a solid form of protein before the work out and whey immediately after, with carbs.