B Complex or b12 Injections?

[Bradly1234]

1. All vitamins/minerals tend to deplete under stress. 2. Very easy, eat meat. 3. Your body has stores that would last for up to a decade. 4. When taking B12 supps you're simply assuming that it's working. 5. There is no data that suggests that taking extra b12 as a young healthy person is beneficial. He's not providing evidence that it won't help and you have no evidence to say that it does help.

1. Well typically when someone is on a hard training regimen and strict diet stress is present so why wouldn’t b12 run low?
2. Your body has a very hard time absorbing b12 orally so simply eating any animal derived food won’t give you the same amount as an injection.

Skipping to number 5 haha, precisely my point but someone is very quick to hop on their high horse.

[IM708]

1. Well typically when someone is on a hard training regimen and strict diet stress is present so why wouldn’t b12 run low?
2. Your body has a very hard time absorbing b12 orally so simply eating any animal derived food won’t give you the same amount as an injection.

Skipping to number 5 haha, precisely my point but someone is very quick to hop on their high horse.

1.Did you even read what I wrote? Your body stores up to a decades worth of it. You will NOT deplete it through strict dieting over a period for a year.

2. Gee really? No shit you will have a higher conc of b12 in an injection vs food supps. You don't require 5000mcg of b12 to sustain good heath. The rda for b12 is 2.4 mcg no where near the dosage you are taking per shot.

Skipping to number 5 haha, precisely my point but someone is very quick to hop on their high horse.

What high horse? I can guarantee you brokenbricks is smarter than you when it comes to this. He's simply telling you there is no evidence saying taking superdoses of vitamins are beneficial. What do you want him to do about it? Force scientist to create an extremely expensive case study trying to find a link between b12 levels and energy in young healthy adults? That won't happen, I'd rather have them run drug trials that will save lives.

I'm done with this thread, you are coming off as incredibly stubborn.

[Phate]

Quick question everyone: What type of B12 is everyone using? Which type is best? Also, I usually get it at my diet doctor's office but that is before I moved out of state. I was told I can buy it online. Is it safe to buy online or is it just as dangerous as buying other "stuff"?

i use cyanocobalamin but there are three types: cyanocobalamin, methylcobalamin, and hydroxycobalamin.

hydroxycobalamin converts more readily into the coenzyme form and also binds with cyanide in the body. but it is very hard to get

methylcobalamin has been suggested by one study to be more easily stored by the body than cyanocobalamin, but again it is difficult to get

cyanocobalamin is pretty easy to get online and isn't dangerous at all IMO, as long as you get it from a good source.

as far as use, it's impossible(well almost) to overdose on since it is water soluble and any excess you have will just be excreted

[Bradly1234]

I am trying to find information about B12 and the only thing I can obtain from this thread is that brokenbricks and ironmaiden are capital d bags.

[Dizz28]

Agreed, a lot of inflated Ego's in this thread. You got one guy trying to belittle someone and prove his points are correct by picking at simple misspellings, fairly easy to do when writing on a Steroid Chat board and not working on a term paper....and the other guy just echos what he says.

I'll tell you a study, done recently if fact.... I started taking B-complex and I feel 200% better. Not a placebo effect, started within a few hours of the initial dose and has stayed constant now 3 weeks later since continued use. But I guess you'll say it just in my head, I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm an idiot.... and find things that are misspelled in this post and maybe others that I've posted to prove you are right.

Have at it

[BrokenBricks]

Agreed, a lot of inflated Ego's in this thread. You got one guy trying to belittle someone and prove his points are correct by picking at simple misspellings, fairly easy to do when writing on a Steroid Chat board and not working on a term paper....and the other guy just echos what he says.

I'll tell you a study, done recently if fact.... I started taking B-complex and I feel 200% better. Not a placebo effect, started within a few hours of the initial dose and has stayed constant now 3 weeks later since continued use. But I guess you'll say it just in my head, I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm an idiot.... and find things that are misspelled in this post and maybe others that I've posted to prove you are right.

Have at it

Pointing out this guys terrible command of his own language is just icing on the cake. I have already given reasons why his ideas are faulty. Ironmaiden reiterated them because those reasons have not been challenged, simply ignored.

If you are confident it helped you by all means take it. The point here is that there is a lot of objective data to show it is unlikely that it does any good. Not proof, but a suggestion that it does no good. That you lose something on the order of 0.1% of your stores per day might give you an idea of why taking thousands of times the total body storage amount of B12 is an odd idea. If you just believe with all your heart that you felt a difference, well go for it. Understand however that the reason we have a phase "placebo effect" is that many many people, all people in fact, frequently think a medication that is truly doing nothing is actually doing something. That is the definition of the phrase! Waving your hands and saying "It was not a placebo effect" is not much of a reassurance for the rest of us who have learned to approach these things with some skepticism. The problem with everyone in this thread is that they deny the possibility that they can fool themselves. How many times have you read about some guy injecting something like test enenthate and 15 minutes later he just KNOWS he feels stronger?

[jimmyinkedup]

Hmmm - i think when you get treated like an inferior individual - intellectually and otherwise- in your daily occupation ....like oh say a residency ....by people who's career you so desperately want to emulate ....well you cant help but start to act like a condescending , arrogant prick.
In many ways it is professionally what you aspire to be.
Ive pointed it out in some over and over - now i just try to accept it and even laugh at it....
Smartass may be appropriate ...but hey whatever ......to each his own....

[BrokenBricks]

Hmmm - i think when you get treated like an inferior individual - intellectually and otherwise- in your daily occupation ....like oh say a residency ....by people who's career you so desperately want to emulate ....well you cant help but start to act like a condescending , arrogant prick.
In many ways it is professionally what you aspire to be.
Ive pointed it out in some over and over - now i just try to accept it and even laugh at it....
Smartass may be appropriate ...but hey whatever ......to each his own....

I really wonder if it is you who has the chip on his shoulder. You cannot get into a discussion with me without obsessing the fact that I am a doctor. I don't know why that is, but it is obviously very important to you.

You want to talk about my job and my psyche? Want to get inside my head? I saw a father die yesterday. I saw another man and an grandmother die today. I saw 3 missing toes and a foot twisted around facing the wrong direction. I had to tell the family of the dying grandmother that unless we put a tube down her mouth an had a machine breathe for her she would die. They let her die, appropriately. So if you really think that your amateur psychiatric analysis is going to make me blink, much less rattle me, well.....silly overgrown children don't rate very highly on the list of things which get my pulse up.

[jimmyinkedup]

^^^im just trying to justify in my head why you are such an arrogant, condescending prick ....if im wrong leave me in my ignorance - it allows me to tolerate you and your posts.....

[IM708]

I am trying to find information about B12 and the only thing I can obtain from this thread is that brokenbricks and ironmaiden are capital d bags.

Right back at ya bud...

Agreed, a lot of inflated Ego's in this thread. You got one guy trying to belittle someone and prove his points are correct by picking at simple misspellings, fairly easy to do when writing on a Steroid Chat board and not working on a term paper....and the other guy just echos what he says.

I'll tell you a study, done recently if fact.... I started taking B-complex and I feel 200% better. Not a placebo effect, started within a few hours of the initial dose and has stayed constant now 3 weeks later since continued use. But I guess you'll say it just in my head, I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm an idiot.... and find things that are misspelled in this post and maybe others that I've posted to prove you are right.

Have at it

Echoes? What would you like me to say? Add another variable into the discussion that doesn't exist or is unneccisary. What I've written has been ignored so what would you have liked me to do?

[Phate]

k guys, time to kiss and make up, this thread is getting out of hand and since it has some nice study references let's just drop it so it doesn't get deleted

[Bradly1234]

If I were smart enough to spell apologize I would say sorry… Just some humor but B12, agreed to disagree its dropped on my part.

[Bradly1234]

btw ironmaiden ive got some questions for you about a previous thread you started pm me if you see this

[RATTLEHEAD]

injecting b-12 sounds a little retarded to me. just get the 5,000 mcg sublingual tablets. i wouldn't inject anything unless i absolutely had to.

[Phate]

injecting b-12 sounds a little retarded to me. just get the 5,000 mcg sublingual tablets. i wouldn't inject anything unless i absolutely had to.

even sublingual tabs have a horrible absorption efficiency

[IM708]

even sublingual tabs have a horrible absorption efficiency

All you need is 0.048% (2.4/5000*100) of that to absorb to be a healthy adult.

[RATTLEHEAD]

i know that b12 has horrible absorption. but you dont need a massive amount of it, out of the 5,000 mcgs, a sufficient amount should absorb. injections are just too extreme for b12. i'm deficient and i dont even inject. and why? because it's not like i'm a diabetic with insulin problems.. its too extreme

[lawstudent007]

i use cyanocobalamin but there are three types: cyanocobalamin, methylcobalamin, and hydroxycobalamin.

hydroxycobalamin converts more readily into the coenzyme form and also binds with cyanide in the body. but it is very hard to get

methylcobalamin has been suggested by one study to be more easily stored by the body than cyanocobalamin, but again it is difficult to get

cyanocobalamin is pretty easy to get online and isn't dangerous at all IMO, as long as you get it from a good source.

as far as use, it's impossible(well almost) to overdose on since it is water soluble and any excess you have will just be excreted

So which one would you say is best? hydroxycobalamin? methylcobalamin? Also, is there a chance that online sources sell fakes?

[Bradly1234]

Hydroxycobalamin imo as well, I would guess that online sources could sell fakes you always want to look into your source. I just save the hassle and my doc shots me whenever I go in, have you talked to him/her about their view on it at all?

[lawstudent007]

Hydroxycobalamin imo as well, I would guess that online sources could sell fakes you always want to look into your source. I just save the hassle and my doc shots me whenever I go in, have you talked to him/her about their view on it at all?

Well I'm new to Michigan and don't have a dr here. back home, my dr used to give me weekly B-12 shots.

[IM708]

Well I'm new to Michigan and don't have a dr here. back home, my dr used to give me weekly B-12 shots.

Why do you take b12 shots?

[legobricks]

Pointing out this guys terrible command of his own language is just icing on the cake. I have already given reasons why his ideas are faulty. Ironmaiden reiterated them because those reasons have not been challenged, simply ignored.

If you are confident it helped you by all means take it. The point here is that there is a lot of objective data to show it is unlikely that it does any good. Not proof, but a suggestion that it does no good. That you lose something on the order of 0.1% of your stores per day might give you an idea of why taking thousands of times the total body storage amount of B12 is an odd idea. If you just believe with all your heart that you felt a difference, well go for it. Understand however that the reason we have a phase "placebo effect" is that many many people, all people in fact, frequently think a medication that is truly doing nothing is actually doing something. That is the definition of the phrase! Waving your hands and saying "It was not a placebo effect" is not much of a reassurance for the rest of us who have learned to approach these things with some skepticism. The problem with everyone in this thread is that they deny the possibility that they can fool themselves. How many times have you read about some guy injecting something like test enenthate and 15 minutes later he just KNOWS he feels stronger?

Your a doctor yet you are on a steroid forum....hmmmm

and just becuase you are, your attitude is not needed here so drop it. Your little remarks about spelling and all the other bullsh*t is not only getting to the members but also the staff so stop. Belittling people here is not what we do and you may be smart but share your knowledge, dont be arrogant about it.

^^^im just trying to justify in my head why you are such an arrogant, condescending prick ....if im wrong leave me in my ignorance - it allows me to tolerate you and your posts.....

You as well the attitude has been piss poor from what ive been reading lately so leave it checked at home b4 you log into this forum. Again, you may know a thing or two but share the info dont be arrogant about it.


Warned.

[Phate]

So which one would you say is best? hydroxycobalamin? methylcobalamin? Also, is there a chance that online sources sell fakes?

hydroxy is best, but hardest to get, personally i use cyanocobalamin because of it's availability

[lawstudent007]

Why do you take b12 shots?

Well many diet doctors (doctors that prescribe various diet pills) also give you the option of getting b12 injections. It gives you a great boost of energy. When I first got the injection, I had an amazing boost of energy. That's pretty much why I took it. So I thought it was odd that the guys here said it increases appetite. I didn't get any of that when I took it.

[BrokenBricks]

Well many diet doctors (doctors that prescribe various diet pills) also give you the option of getting b12 injections. It gives you a great boost of energy. When I first got the injection, I had an amazing boost of energy. That's pretty much why I took it. So I thought it was odd that the guys here said it increases appetite. I didn't get any of that when I took it.

Placebo unfortunately.

[lawstudent007]

Placebo unfortunately.

You mean the b12 was a placebo? I'm not sure what you mean. Please clarify.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but I doubt my physician was giving me fake b12. I didn't go to one of those shady offices. Also, my sister got the same b12 injections (but she was actually anemic and deficient).

[IM708]

You mean the b12 was a placebo? I'm not sure what you mean. Please clarify.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but I doubt my physician was giving me fake b12. I didn't go to one of those shady offices. Also, my sister got the same b12 injections (but she was actually anemic and deficient).

Hes saying you got real b12 but the energy increases from it were only a placebo effect.

[lawstudent007]

Hes saying you got real b12 but the energy increases from it were only a placebo effect.

Oh ok, now I understand. But that still doesn't seem right. I got the injection before I started taking the pills and I have so much energy that I couldn't sleep that evening. Also, it helped my sister who did not even expect to get a boost of energy. She had to take it because of her severe deficiency.

[IM708]

Oh ok, now I understand. But that still doesn't seem right. I got the injection before I started taking the pills and I have so much energy that I couldn't sleep that evening. Also, it helped my sister who did not even expect to get a boost of energy. She had to take it because of her severe deficiency.

b12 shouldn't be keeping you up at night. Your sister on the other hand since she is naturally deficient would feel an effect from it.

[lawstudent007]

So you're saying that unless you are deficient, you won't feel anything? On a side note: So why do some of the guys on here take it?

[IM708]

So you're saying that unless you are deficient, you won't feel anything? On a side note: So why do some of the guys on here take it?

Basically, your body has TONS of it as is, about a decades worth of readily available. Some guys use to combat fatigue but won't help since in some of the instances its a depressed thyroid issue, others to stimulate appetite, etc.

[BrokenBricks]

There is just no evidence that B12 does anything in a non deficient individual. There is tons of evidence however than if you give someone a shot, be it a shot of pure water or saline, that even if there is no pharmacological effect of the substance people will really feel different. The effect only works if the person is aware of the shot, and its strongest when the person believes in the therapy. The effects seen are *always* effects that are subjective. For instance, no anemic person gets a shot of saline and has their red blood cell count rise, as they would with an actual transfusion. But they might say thought that they feel like they are not as weak. It is psychological. If They were to receive that injection of saline while asleep and were never told they would not feel any different. If they got a blood transfusion asleep they *would* wake up feeling better.

Does that prove that in any one instance a subjective experience such as feeling "more energy" is a placebo effect. No it doesn't. It is possible B12 does really have that effect. But without any objective evidence people who give credence to this known confounding effect will not be convinced by testimonial.

If you feel it is helping you by all means continue.

[higherdesire]

Lawstudent- I take it daily as previously stated by injection. I use cyanocobalamin. I don't really get an energy boost or appetite increase which is why I started it, nut I DO get a sustained energy level. In other words I used to crash duing the afternoons, but now I am on a much more even keel. It is the only benefit I have seen after almost 60 days of ED injections. After I am done with this bottle I am not going to continue injections. I have order and received sublingual tabs. Good luck.

[IM708]

There is just no evidence that B12 does anything in a non deficient individual. There is tons of evidence however than if you give someone a shot, be it a shot of pure water or saline, that even if there is no pharmacological effect of the substance people will really feel different. The effect only works if the person is aware of the shot, and its strongest when the person believes in the therapy. The effects seen are *always* effects that are subjective. For instance, no anemic person gets a shot of saline and has their red blood cell count rise, as they would with an actual transfusion. But they might say thought that they feel like they are not as weak. It is psychological. If They were to receive that injection of saline while asleep and were never told they would not feel any different. If they got a blood transfusion asleep they *would* wake up feeling better.

Does that prove that in any one instance a subjective experience such as feeling "more energy" is a placebo effect. No it doesn't. It is possible B12 does really have that effect. But without any objective evidence people who give credence to this known confounding effect will not be convinced by testimonial.

If you feel it is helping you by all means continue.

I tell you, those 5 hour energies suck, I take those and I don't feel shit from them and they load those w/ b12.

[BrokenBricks]

Last night I looked and saw the vitamin I take has a ton of the stuff also.

[tripmachine]

I cant find that one....
The only site that i could find it on is out of stock now.

Do you know where else I can find that?

http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/...al_Supplements

there.... 11 dollars and it'll last you all year have fun!

[RATTLEHEAD]

that's the cheapest b12 i've ever seen. My sublingual 5,000 mcg tablets cost me ****ing $28 bucks per 90 tabs.

[Phate]

that's the cheapest b12 i've ever seen. My sublingual 5,000 mcg tablets cost me ****ing $28 bucks per 90 tabs.

that's why i use injectable, much cheaper

[RATTLEHEAD]

how much do you spend on syringes though per vial?

[legobricks]

syringes are cheap as hell

like 4 bucks a box of 100 unless u go online, then you pay like 7 dollars or something like that. still really cheap.