pct ?

[zokr9813]

started myt pct 2 weeks ago i was taking 50mg of tes prop, and 50 mg of tren ace ed. now taking 100 mg clomid and 20 mg nolva ed. my sex drive is way way way low, is there any suggestions on y this is happening and what i can do to fix it as soon as possible

[Merc.]

How long was your cycle for ?? It takes time for your body to start to recover . you have to give it time ... Its only been two weeks .... Give your body time to recover ..

Also clomid and nolva arent the best pct protocol IMO ..


Merc.

[WARMachine]

How long was your cycle for ?? It takes time for your body to start to recover . you have to give it time ... Its only been two weeks .... Give your body time to recover ..

Also clomid and nolva arent the best pct protocol IMO ..

Merc.

Explain?

I wanna know your opinion brutha!

[Merc.]

Explain?

I wanna know your opinion brutha!

Hi War ,


Some of the peer reviewed studies on this kinda leaves us hanging .. But as you know in the real world and what studies show can sometimes have a very different conclusion ... That said..

It takes aprox 150 mg of clomid to achieve that same thing that nolva can do around 20 mg ... Both begin that nolva and clomid are SERMS and are pretty close in action I dont see it relevant to use both IMO .. Some studies show that 150 clomid = to 20 mg of nolva is not accurate , but please keep in mind that there is no conclusive VALID study to confirm this ( that i have seen to date) .. It is not that cut and dry in this case as some would like peeps to believe..

Through looking at peeps blood work reports who use a AI and a SERM seem to recover at a faster response rate ( HPTA is normalized at a faster rate) .. Than opposed to using the old skool nlova / clomid combo ..



merc.

[zokr9813]

my cycle lasted 8 weeks

[Merc.]

I am really steering towards tore as a good peice in the pct protocol ..

You might like this old thread .. ( me asking about tore and -- at the time we didnt have much info on it .. I think this was in 06 ?? ) Bino , Big K AKA bajan bastard , and I where alll first looking into tore and its possibilities..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=248480



Merc.

[Swifto]

I am really steering towards tore as a good peice in the pct protocol ..

You might like this old thread .. ( me asking about tore and -- at the time we didnt have much info on it .. I think this was in 06 ?? ) Bino , Big K AKA bajan bastard , and I where alll first looking into tore and its possibilities..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=248480



Merc.

Toremifene is my favourite and should be a part of EVERYONES PCT. It drastically raises LH, FSH, T. Has been shown to increase bone density and lipids too. Its not carried by the sponsor here, though, therfore its a bit tricky.

As for Clomid vs. Tamox, I prefer Clomid and think its better than Tamox for HPTA restoration. Low dose that is. There is far more research done on Clomid on hypogondal males on Clomid and its testosterone raising effects. There are even extended studies done on Clomid, lasting almost 12 months, if my memory serves correct. With no lasting sides.

It seems Clomid's vision disturbances are temporary and Tamox's are not. Tamox is a also a proven carcinogen.

I also recently read a study that stated Tamox DID NOT raise LH in individuals, the same cannot be said about Clomid. I cant find the study though, been searching for it the last 4 days.

EDIT: Just found the ****er:

Int J Androl. 1992 Feb;15(1):14-8.Links

Comment in:
Int J Androl. 1992 Dec;15(6):507-8.
Treatment of idiopathic oligozoospermia with tamoxifen--a randomized controlled study.Krause W, Holland-Moritz H, Schramm P.
Department of Andrology, Philipps-Universitat, Marburg, Germany.

There is no conclusive evidence of the usefulness of tamoxifen in the treatment of idiopathic oligozoospermia (OAT-syndrome), as it has been used mostly in uncontrolled studies. We herein report on the controlled treatment of OAT-syndrome with tamoxifen versus placebo following a randomized design. Seventy-six men with sperm counts of 2-20 x 10(6) ml-1, sperm motility of 20-50%, and sperm morphology (abnormal cells) between 50 and 80% were involved in the study. Patients with varicocele, a history of testicular maldescent or genital inflammation were excluded. Thirty-nine patients received tamoxifen (30 mg daily), 37 patients placebo. There was a statistically significant increase in the mean serum testosterone level after treatment in the tamoxifen-treated group (from 4.9 +/- 1.9 to 7.9 +/- 3.6 ng ml-1) in comparison to the placebo group (5.3 +/- 2.0 and 5.6 +/- 2.0 ng ml-1). Serum FSH levels increased slightly in the tamoxifen group (from 6.8 +/- 4.1 to 7.3 +/- 4.8 mU ml-1), but this was not statistically significant in comparison to the placebo group (from 5.9 +/- 3.9 to 5.2 +/- 3.5 mU ml-1). Serum levels of LH did not show any differences between groups. The sperm count increased during treatment from 9.3 +/- 11.7 to 11.4 +/- 13.7 x 10(6) ml-1 in the tamoxifen group and from 9.1 +/- 7.1 to 9.3 +/- 8.8 x 10(6) ml-1 in the placebo group; this difference did not reach statistical significance. The percentage of motile and abnormal sperm was not different between the two treatment groups.

Toremifene should be the backbone of ones PCT, with either low dose Clomid (my choice) or Tamox.

[Testomaster]

Do you want to fix your libido ? Do like this ...

Week 1 - 3 Pregnyl 2000 IU every 3 days + Nolvadex 20mg ED + Proviron 25mg ED
Week 4 - 8 Nolvadex 10mg ED + Proviron25 ED
Just in case, Cialis 20mg twice a week.

This is the only way to get your axis back increasing libido and erections ! Try it then u let me know...

[Merc.]

Toremifene is my favourite and should be a part of EVERYONES PCT. It drastically raises LH, FSH, T. Has been shown to increase bone density and lipids too. Its not carried by the sponsor here, though, therfore its a bit tricky.

As for Clomid vs. Tamox, I prefer Clomid and think its better than Tamox for HPTA restoration. Low dose that is. There is far more research done on Clomid on hypogondal males on Clomid and its testosterone raising effects. There are even extended studies done on Clomid, lasting almost 12 months, if my memory serves correct. With no lasting sides.

It seems Clomid's vision disturbances are temporary and Tamox's are not. Tamox is a also a proven carcinogen.

I also recently read a study that stated Tamox DID NOT raise LH in individuals, the same cannot be said about Clomid. I cant find the study though, been searching for it the last 4 days.

EDIT: Just found the ****er:

Int J Androl. 1992 Feb;15(1):14-8.Links

Comment in:
Int J Androl. 1992 Dec;15(6):507-8.
Treatment of idiopathic oligozoospermia with tamoxifen--a randomized controlled study.Krause W, Holland-Moritz H, Schramm P.
Department of Andrology, Philipps-Universitat, Marburg, Germany.

There is no conclusive evidence of the usefulness of tamoxifen in the treatment of idiopathic oligozoospermia (OAT-syndrome), as it has been used mostly in uncontrolled studies. We herein report on the controlled treatment of OAT-syndrome with tamoxifen versus placebo following a randomized design. Seventy-six men with sperm counts of 2-20 x 10(6) ml-1, sperm motility of 20-50%, and sperm morphology (abnormal cells) between 50 and 80% were involved in the study. Patients with varicocele, a history of testicular maldescent or genital inflammation were excluded. Thirty-nine patients received tamoxifen (30 mg daily), 37 patients placebo. There was a statistically significant increase in the mean serum testosterone level after treatment in the tamoxifen-treated group (from 4.9 +/- 1.9 to 7.9 +/- 3.6 ng ml-1) in comparison to the placebo group (5.3 +/- 2.0 and 5.6 +/- 2.0 ng ml-1). Serum FSH levels increased slightly in the tamoxifen group (from 6.8 +/- 4.1 to 7.3 +/- 4.8 mU ml-1), but this was not statistically significant in comparison to the placebo group (from 5.9 +/- 3.9 to 5.2 +/- 3.5 mU ml-1). Serum levels of LH did not show any differences between groups. The sperm count increased during treatment from 9.3 +/- 11.7 to 11.4 +/- 13.7 x 10(6) ml-1 in the tamoxifen group and from 9.1 +/- 7.1 to 9.3 +/- 8.8 x 10(6) ml-1 in the placebo group; this difference did not reach statistical significance. The percentage of motile and abnormal sperm was not different between the two treatment groups.

Toremifene should be the backbone of ones PCT, with either low dose Clomid (my choice) or Tamox.

Thanks for posting that study Swifto .......


Merc.