First Cycle with Unique circumstances Please help

[Phate]

Thanks,
I have read that serveral times trying to get it all to sink in. I do have one question that I keep going back and forth on with the answer.
SERM or AI Can anyone give me more insight on why I would choose one or the other?

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM’s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.




but to answer your question, you won't be needing to pct if you are on trt so an AI like arimidex or aromasin would be best to control water retention on cycle

[Subotai]

You guys had headaches for months, years and never bothered to tell a doctor what you did or why? Man that is a Bummer

It happened at a somewhat close time to a cuncussion. They said I'd get headaches for a while, they just never went away. I've always assumed I had some sort of brain damage honestly. I just recently about a month ago told my doc, they assumed it was high bp which I don't have. Then assumed it was prolactin which is normal..... then she stopped thinking about it. I'm no good at pushing points with doctors. I just deal with the pain and avoid things that make it worse.

[First6]

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM’s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.




but to answer your question, you won't be needing to pct if you are on trt so an AI like arimidex or aromasin would be best to control water retention on cycle

LOL... wish I had a nickel for every time I wished you guys would use english! LOL You are so over my head! LOL
Okay so after reading your post several times I get that AI prevents Est and SERM allows Est but prevents the side effects of it. (do I have that right)

Still confused though... your post seems to be in agreement with this thread:http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916 particulary the part starting with red text about prevention of gyno. BUT both your comments and the ones in that thread lead me to think that a serm is the best bet... yet at the end of your comments you recommend an AI.. Am I confused enough? lol
Please set me straight

[Phate]

LOL... wish I had a nickel for every time I wished you guys would use english! LOL You are so over my head! LOL
Okay so after reading your post several times I get that AI prevents Est and SERM allows Est but prevents the side effects of it. (do I have that right)

Still confused though... your post seems to be in agreement with this thread:http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916 particulary the part starting with red text about prevention of gyno. BUT both your comments and the ones in that thread lead me to think that a serm is the best bet... yet at the end of your comments you recommend an AI.. Am I confused enough? lol
Please set me straight

k, i'm gonna have to give you some background

When you inject testosterone into the body you create a spike in testosterone, the body doesn't like when you quickly spike levels of any hormone so it has to find a way to decrease this spike. To do that it releases the aromatase enzyme, this enzyme binds with testosterone and converts it into estrogen, thus decrease the testosterone spike but increasing estrogen, when this happens enough you get estrogen related sides(due to the increase in estrogen) such as gyno, high blood pressure, water retention, emotional sides, etc.....

now that you know that i can explain how AIs and SERMs work

AIs(aromatase inhibitors) actually bind to the aromatase enzyme and prevent it from converting testosterone to estrogen, this is why AIs are used on cycle to reduce water retention and such, they prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen and thus are best to use at first sign of estrogen sides

SERMs use a different action, they bind to the estrogen receptor(not the aromatase enzyme but the actual receptor that estrogen binds too) and in men produce anti-estrogenic effects, the reason these aren't used on cycle as often as AIs is that they don't stop the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, they only prevent estrogen from binding to it's receptor site, so using these while on cycle without an AI will results in an increase in estrogen levels throughout the cycle which will hit you hard as soon as you get off the SERM because you will have a ton of estrogen floating around ready to bind to the receptors as soon as the SERM is gone


does that help? i oversimplified alot of it and made some generalizations but it's basically correct