Sub-Q testosterone HRT?

[Jumbo18]

does anybody have experience with shooting test sub-q for hrt?

my hrt is 100mg/week and supposed to be shot sub-q, anyone can share their experiences and also if it kicks in around the same time or they still feel the full effects?

[Big]

why sub-q?

[Jumbo18]

I'm not positive, it was advised by the doctor. he says it will make more stable blood levels. however it has not been a week yet, so i can't judge how it is. though i was hoping some others have some experience using this method.

[Big]

it would not make more stable blood levels, I would ask him to explain in detail why he feels it would.

[Jumbo18]

my blood work is needed in a month to see how I'm doing. am i better off with splitting the dose alone 50mg twice a week IM or one 100mg IM is fine? or just wait for my blood results?

[Big]

100mg once a week is fine, assuming it's test c.

[Jumbo18]

enanthate

[canadian meat]

enanthate

Updates? Im hoping you"ll post those blood results Im curious.

[Big]

still fine, with higher (cycle) doses I would split twice a week, low doses is fine once a week.

[CHAP]

Im with big. Def need to get your dr to explain the reasoning behind his method. I think he is very inexperanced

[zaggahamma]

i've seen only one post before referring to sub q injections of test...sorry forgot where it went and agree with above...and post wut this unique doctor says

[fm2002]

Never heard of Sub-Q T injections for testosterone ??? I have heard the more frequent you are in your injections the less likely you'll have side affects like acne & gyno.

[marcus300]

This is a new way of delivery what doctors are looking into, ive never done this myself but I do know of someone online who as ran this protocol. Here is a study which will explain it better -

Subcutaneous Testosterone Injections Study

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy.

Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

[fm2002]

This is a new way of delivery what doctors are looking into, ive never done this myself but I do know of someone online who as ran this protocol. Here is a study which will explain it better -

Subcutaneous Testosterone Injections Study

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy.

Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

Wow. Thanks for the case study. Can you give us this link of the thread of the person online you refer to ? It would be great if instead of once a week IM twice a week Sub-Q !!!

[ZonaDave]

i don't do Sub-Q shots but last month i started using 27g-5/8" needles for delt shots and it's been going great so far with no side affects. i'm shooting 70mg 2x/week.

delt shots using these needles are virtually pain free with no leakage or bleeding.

[fm2002]

i don't do Sub-Q shots but last month i started using 27g-5/8" needles for delt shots and it's been going great so far with no side affects. i'm shooting 70mg 2x/week.

delt shots using these needles are virtually pain free with no leakage or bleeding.

What test are you using ? I use Enthanate and understood it needs a big enough needle to push the oil based Test through the needle ?

[ZonaDave]

What test are you using ? I use Enthanate and understood it needs a big enough needle to push the oil based Test through the needle ?

i'm using cypionate so i'm pretty sure it's the same viscosity. the strange part is when i was using 25g-1" in the quad, i had to push pretty hard and that's working the plunger with my thumb.

after doing some research i thought i'd give the insulin needles a try and i was surprized by how easy it was. i already had the needles because they're the same ones my doc gave me for B-12.

it takes a little longer to draw the T out of the vial but it shoots pretty easy. to draw the T out of the vial, i pull the plunger all the way back until it fills to my dosage.

the needle i'm using is a B-D 329412

[Cavedyvr]

ZonaDave,
To make things even easier, use a 19ga to draw your test up and then switch to the smaller ga. Not only will you save time drawing up your test, you will start with a "factory" sharp needle increasing comfort.

[ythrashin]

I looked into this awhile ago... I couldnt find much info out about it. Its not a good idea. Just shoot it IM.

I wanted to open up more injection sites the first time I used Winny. I did research on injecting water based Winny sub-q. Found a bit of info about guys doing it.

Couldnt find any for sure info so I decided to experiment....
I tried shooting .5 cc sub-q... sterile abscess/knot that took months to go away. Cant even touch the site with HCG still to this day...

DONT SHOOT SUB-Q... bad idea...

[ZonaDave]

ZonaDave,
To make things even easier, use a 19ga to draw your test up and then switch to the smaller ga. Not only will you save time drawing up your test, you will start with a "factory" sharp needle increasing comfort.

i can't change the needle tips on the syringes i use but that's ok because the shots are very comfortable as it is. i don't mind waiting a little longer to draw. i use the same needles for B-12 so for me it's very easy and economical, i only have to buy one type of needle for my TRT protocol.

[starkiller]

This is interesting, I will ask my Dr. as well on my next visit and post what he says.

[tominpa]

Im thinking of giving it a try, but am wondering the same thing ....how will oil based primo will fit through an insulin needle...Im having trouble with pain swelling and feverish feeling in my quads every time I inject IM.....I know "it helps not to be a *****" a quote I read and keep thinking but I would love to try it sub Q if at all possible. HGH injections every morning and I dont feel a thing.

[ythrashin]

Im thinking of giving it a try, but am wondering the same thing ....how will oil based primo will fit through an insulin needle...Im having trouble with pain swelling and feverish feeling in my quads every time I inject IM.....I know "it helps not to be a *****" a quote I read and keep thinking but I would love to try it sub Q if at all possible. HGH injections every morning and I dont feel a thing.

I bet you'll regret it if you try it... I do... NEVER AGAIN!

[NEMESIS RR]

sub with insulin needles are painless, never leaves a sore spot, and provides more exact dosages. No difference in feeling of well being between deep muscular and sub

[ythrashin]

sub with insulin needles are painless, never leaves a sore spot, and provides more exact dosages. No difference in feeling of well being between deep muscular and sub

And you shoot Test Sub-Q? How much at one time?

[ZonaDave]

i've just got my blood results back after being on 27g - 5/8" needles for the past 6 weeks. i wasn't sure what this new method would do to my levels but as you can see all is well...

Daily
50mg Zinc
50mg DHEA
5000iu Vit D
Multi-Vit Pack

Weekly
Mon - 70mg T Cyp + .5mg Arimidex
Thu - 70mg T Cyp + .5mg Arimidex + 1,000iu B-12 Injectable

NOTE: i'm currently using 27g - 5/8" needle to inject T in my shoulders.

blood draw was on monday morning before any food or meds.

Blood Results:

Total T = 1251 (250-1100)
%Free T = 2.34 (1.5-2.2)
Free T = 292.3 (35.0-155.0)
E2 = 17 (8-43)
DHT = 79 (25-75)
DHEA = 459 (95-530)
IGF-I = 241 (91-246)
PSA = 1.0 (<4.1)

[ythrashin]

5/8 inch needles in the quads ok...thats IM. So I'm not surprised with your blood work... This is a sub-q thread...

[ZonaDave]

5/8 inch needles in the quads ok...thats IM. So I'm not surprised with your blood work... This is a sub-q thread...

actually at that length it's referred to as deep sub-q

[NEMESIS RR]

And you shoot Test Sub-Q? How much at one time?

Cypionate at 60mg 2x a week. Never a problem.

[ythrashin]

Cypionate at 60mg 2x a week. Never a problem.

Interesting... Sub-q in your stomach region?

[Ntpadude]

does anybody have experience with shooting test sub-q for hrt?

my hrt is 100mg/week and supposed to be shot sub-q, anyone can share their experiences and also if it kicks in around the same time or they still feel the full effects?

Oh boy... Hehehe... you havent tried this yet???? I should be an ass and recommend you try it. Well for those with experience for accidentally not injecting into the muscle and getting the injection sub-q or actually not deep enough into muscle and some leaks out into sub-q area... let me tell you it is HORRIBLY painful. You talk about not being able to sit for a week or two, and you have a really bad hardened lump that stays feverously hot... the oil of the shot typically causes a major histamine response and get alergy like reaction from it, your body will not like oil based products in your fat cells in sub-q area where otherwise it doesnt mind oils in the muscle. I cant believe in the first few responses nobody with accidental sub-q experience hasnt come in and called you on the carpet yet. I thought everyone accidentially did a sub-q here or there and let me tell you, you dont soon forget what it did to you!

[NEMESIS RR]

Oh boy... Hehehe... you havent tried this yet???? I should be an ass and recommend you try it. Well for those with experience for accidentally not injecting into the muscle and getting the injection sub-q or actually not deep enough into muscle and some leaks out into sub-q area... let me tell you it is HORRIBLY painful. You talk about not being able to sit for a week or two, and you have a really bad hardened lump that stays feverously hot... the oil of the shot typically causes a major histamine response and get alergy like reaction from it, your body will not like oil based products in your fat cells in sub-q area where otherwise it doesnt mind oils in the muscle. I cant believe in the first few responses nobody with accidental sub-q experience hasnt come in and called you on the carpet yet. I thought everyone accidentially did a sub-q here or there and let me tell you, you dont soon forget what it did to you!

I can speak for pharm grade and never a problem in 2 years injecting 2x a week. I inject into the buttocks not stomach

[ythrashin]

I can speak for pharm grade and never a problem in 2 years injecting 2x a week. I inject into the buttocks not stomach

And again with someone confused about what sub-q injections and IM are...

[NEMESIS RR]

And again with someone confused about what sub-q injections and IM are...

No not confused as I use a slin pin and shoot in a low soft area. I do not hit any muscle.

[ythrashin]

Oh boy... Hehehe... you havent tried this yet???? I should be an ass and recommend you try it. Well for those with experience for accidentally not injecting into the muscle and getting the injection sub-q or actually not deep enough into muscle and some leaks out into sub-q area... let me tell you it is HORRIBLY painful. You talk about not being able to sit for a week or two, and you have a really bad hardened lump that stays feverously hot... the oil of the shot typically causes a major histamine response and get alergy like reaction from it, your body will not like oil based products in your fat cells in sub-q area where otherwise it doesnt mind oils in the muscle. I cant believe in the first few responses nobody with accidental sub-q experience hasnt come in and called you on the carpet yet. I thought everyone accidentially did a sub-q here or there and let me tell you, you dont soon forget what it did to you!

They are confused about what sub-q and IM injections really are...

[ZonaDave]

i think the obsession here is to use the smallest possible needle that will just break the skin in order to deliver the T. if it's that much of an issue i think a TD would be a better option.

[tboney]

For what it is worth I have a bro who is getting test shots sub q from his hrt clinic. Thats the protocal for all their patients.......

[BREW-MAN]

very intresting ........

[CrazyGringo]

I've been shooting subq test C for almost 2 years with no problems. The max doseage I've shot is 1mg. And that's a bit much to be shooting subq. My test is 400mg/ml so just over 1/2mg is perfect for me. I use a 20g pin to draw and a 25g x 5/8 to shoot. I alternate inside and outside of both thighs for my injections. I pull the skin up like any subq injections but I also pull the skin to the side to prevent leakage when I'm done. I angle the pin about 45 degrees to stay in the fatty tissue. You're going to lose some test using this method along with a little blood but that's what works best for me. I know a lot of the BB crowd don't like this method but I'm not a BB I'm using strickly for hrt purposes.

[ythrashin]

Very...very... interesting...

And you guys dont get excessive bruising or sterile abscesses shooting sub-q??

Tell us more...