Can you be addicted to steroids?

[Kratos]

Anabolic-androgenic steroid dependence: an emerging disorder.
Kanayama G, Brower KJ, Wood RI, Hudson JI, Pope HG Jr.

Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, Massachusetts, and Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

Comment in:

Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):1979-80.

AIMS: Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) are widely used illicitly to gain muscle and lose body fat. Here we review the accumulating human and animal evidence showing that AAS may cause a distinct dependence syndrome, often associated with adverse psychiatric and medical effects. METHOD: We present an illustrative case of AAS dependence, followed by a summary of the human and animal literature on this topic, based on publications known to us or obtained by searching the PubMed database. RESULTS: About 30% of AAS users appear to develop a dependence syndrome, characterized by chronic AAS use despite adverse effects on physical, psychosocial or occupational functioning. AAS dependence shares many features with classical drug dependence. For example, hamsters will self-administer AAS, even to the point of death, and both humans and animals exhibit a well-documented AAS withdrawal syndrome, mediated by neuroendocrine and cortical neurotransmitter systems. AAS dependence may particularly involve opioidergic mechanisms. However, AAS differ from classical drugs in that they produce little immediate reward of acute intoxication, but instead a delayed effect of muscle gains. Thus standard diagnostic criteria for substance dependence, usually crafted for acutely intoxicating drugs, must be adapted slightly for cumulatively acting drugs such as AAS. CONCLUSIONS: AAS dependence is a valid diagnostic entity, and probably a growing public health problem. AAS dependence may share brain mechanisms with other forms of substance dependence, especially opioid dependence. Future studies are needed to characterize AAS dependence more clearly, identify risk factors for this syndrome and develop treatment strategies.

[Someguy123]

the only way you could claim any physical dependence, is if you were completely shut down, and werent coming back. then obviously you would require TRT to feel normal. but i still dont think that constitutes addiction. since its not a chemical dependence, on a chemical thats foreign to the body. its a hormone that your body is SUPPOSED to produce, but it isnt anymore.

anything else would be strictly a mental addiction.

[Kratos]

the only way you could claim any physical dependence, is if you were completely shut down, and werent coming back. then obviously you would require TRT to feel normal. but i still dont think that constitutes addiction. since its not a chemical dependence, on a chemical thats foreign to the body. its a hormone that your body is SUPPOSED to produce, but it isnt anymore.

anything else would be strictly a mental addiction.

why is it possible to be addicted to nicotine, but not possible to be dependant on a hormone? Why is the hamster giving it to himself??? It isn't to get huge you can bet.

How many people thought they'd just do one cycle, only to realize years later they've done several and looking forward to their next?

If the leap can be made by the medical establisment, it opens the door to further enforcement.

[Swifto]

The definition of "dependance" and "addiction" are uttery important.

One seems to become addicted to the "gains" made during a course of AAS. But the hamster obviously isnt! Interesting.

[Someguy123]

why is it possible to be addicted to nicotine, but not possible to be dependant on a hormone? Why is the hamster giving it to himself??? It isn't to get huge you can bet.

How many people thought they'd just do one cycle, only to realize years later they've done several and looking forward to their next?

If the leap can be made by the medical establisment, it opens the door to further enforcement.

ad-dic-tion

the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.


the part in bold is what holds the most weight with me. sure if you quit juicing, you feel kinda lethargic for awhile, till your hormones line out. but its not like quitting a chemical dependency, where your body physically cant function, until it learns to operate without the chemical.

but with the definition as a whole, i can understand your point of view, for classifying steroids, as being addictive. because being jacked, and full of energy sure can be habit forming. i dont think anybody here enjoys the feeling, when you go off cycle. and it can be psycologically habit forming, due to this reason as well.

[thebigfella]

i think there addictive in a way, duno if addictive is the rite word tho, when i finish a cycle i start planning my next 1. when im with my mates we all talk about juice, when im in my house i come on this website and read up on them. juice is a big part of my life lol

[Someguy123]

i think there addictive in a way, duno if addictive is the rite word tho, when i finish a cycle i start planning my next 1. when im with my mates we all talk about juice, when im in my house i come on this website and read up on them. juice is a big part of my life lol

this is the way a lot of us steroid users are i imagine. but on the same note, i could really like ice cream too. everytime i finish eating ice cream, i think about what kind im gonna eat next time. everytime im with my mates, we talk about ice cream. and everytime im at home, im reading the net for different kinds of ice cream to try. so would you say i was addicted to ice cream?? what would happen if i wasnt allowed to eat ice cream anymore?? i would just be upset that i dont get it anymore. but my body wouldnt physically shut down, or not function.

[Dukkit]

im addicted. yep. and proud of it. rather it be aas then the other items i used to be addicted to. the better (or bigger, faster, stonger. lol) of 2 evils.

[thebigfella]

so does that make it mental addiction or not, i am also addicted to ice cream bro hahaha

[1bigun11]

[QUOTE=Kratos;4967340] RESULTS: About 30% of AAS users appear to develop a dependence syndrome, characterized by chronic AAS use despite adverse effects on physical, psychosocial or occupational functioning.


Doesn't this suggest that the vast majority (70%) of chronic AAS users are, in fact, able to do without adverse effects on physical, psychosocial or occupational functioning?

[chuckt12345]

VERY ADDICTING,,, the proof is on this forum

[1bigun11]

VERY ADDICTING,,, the proof is on this forum

Addicting, yes, but if there are no significant adverse effects for the vast majority of users, then wtf is the problem? Answer, there is no problem, except that "addiction" sounds like a "bad" thing.

[Someguy123]

so does that make it mental addiction or not, i am also addicted to ice cream bro hahaha

i was just making a point, that its all how you charecterize it. personally, i dont see anything as an addiction, if it doesnt cause a physical shock/trauma to your body, when you go without.

[Nobuddy]

it's completely possible and fairly common to become "addicted" to ANYTHING that brings a human pleasure. Smoking, drinking, whackin off, serial killing, the list in infinite.

i've warned many friends, that were coming our way - there is no ONE cycle, understand that BEFORE you pin that very first ml. i've had one guy prove me wrong, and he's kinda on the fence now about doing another one lol.

[Someguy123]

Addicting, yes, but if there are no significant adverse effects for the vast majority of users, then wtf is the problem? Answer, there is no problem, except that "addiction" sounds like a "bad" thing.

exactly!! you could be addicted to tying shoe laces. but nobody would ever call it an addiction. it has no adverse effects to your body.

[chuckt12345]

mentally addicting,yes
chemically? not so much,, but then again say that to the HRT patient who comes off

[elfin1mf]

the only way you could claim any physical dependence, is if you were completely shut down, and werent coming back. then obviously you would require TRT to feel normal. but i still dont think that constitutes addiction. since its not a chemical dependence, on a chemical thats foreign to the body. its a hormone that your body is SUPPOSED to produce, but it isnt anymore.

anything else would be strictly a mental addiction.

This is how I understand it with the knowledge I have accumulated over the past 6 years. Recreational drugs have different pathways to addiction. Many physically addictive substances work by exploiting the drugs that our body naturally utilizes. With nicotine or cocaine and many other physically addictive substances, dopamine receptors are stimulated. This is generally referred to as the pleasure center of the brain. We naturally strive to acheive stimulation of these receptors, whether it comes from overeating (yes this is a way to stimulate dopamine) or from "drugs". I think that most hormones dramatically effect our mood which is regulated by a very complex system of chemicals. Some hormones cause a balance of these mood related chemicals to change in favor of positive moods, some of them make us feel shitty. It is retarded to believe that you cannot be addicted physically to something that the body makes naturally.

Once the famous painter Salvador Dali was asked if he used drugs. He replied "I AM drugs"

On a side note, hormone balance is key in addiction as well. For example: insulin uptake is also stimulated upon eating high glycemic carb meals. Ever hear of someone having a sweet tooth? Alcoholics boost their insulin uptake with every drink (which causes a chain reaction of many hormones to be utilized). I am familiar with alcoholism because certain members of my family have always been heavy drinkers. They always tend to replace alcohol with sweet foods when they are not drinking. Is this a surprise? what do you think...

While it is stupid to think that naturally produced hormones do not play a huge role in different addiction patterns, I personally think it is stupider to go around thinking that it is best not to mess with any hormones at all. Every time you eat a meal or exercise you are changing the balance of hormones and so many other chemicals in your body which will have a dramatic impact on mood and addiction. I bet many of you are familiar with the addiction to exercise. When I was a teen, I liked rec drugs. Then I got a little older and decided I get way higher from exercise. Then I found bodybuilding and discovered that I can get really high, improve my self image (and the way I appear to others), AND regulate my mood in favor of feeling good more often simply by lifting heavy weights in moderation. When you add hormones to the mix, I personally think it the right choice of hormones can improve your mood much further.

To take it even further, hormones and bodybuilding cause your brain to look at eating more food in a positive light. Not only does this allow you to stimulate more dopamine receptors more often from eating more, it can actually remove the drawbacks of feeling sorry for yourself because you ate more. It also allows you to eat more without getting fat. It is WELL documented that the fatter you are (especially with women) the more of an imbalance in hormones you will acheive in the direction of having depressed feelings.

[chuckt12345]

exactly!! you could be addicted to tying shoe laces. but nobody would ever call it an addiction. it has no adverse effects to your body.

you dont thnk long term use of steroids has no ill effect on your body?

[.EA.]

AAS can very well be addicting, taking into account of addictive personalities and such.

AAS use and living with Bipolar is a whole new chapter.

AAS are the only thing that can turn a hypomaniac douchebag who thinks he's already superman into fkn god himself.

However it feels damn good. Withdrawal is not fun though, at all.

Going through PCT and quitting smoking at the same time is a life and death challenge situation. I basically went from training at the gym for at least 2 hours a day, sparring with my brother, heavy bag and speed bag training, running for a good half an hour and do whatever else I please going at 120% to I can't even fkn get out of bed because I wasted all of my energy wrestling one leg off the bed...

So yeah. If I have a choice of the prior or the latter...I think I prefer the prior...

[Mooseman33]

why do u use that color font?

it fvkin kills me man.

[Critical Mass]

I have serious withdravel symptoms when I go off them.

[Dukkit]

co-caine is a mental addiction. i know from personal experience along with medical studies

i believe AAS is the same way. you like how it makes you feel/look/get attention etc. so you keep using it.

[chuckt12345]

why do u use that color font?

it fvkin kills me man.

x2
yea that green font suks,, i have to read the shite twice

[Ghost84]

In my opinion this is something of a twisting of words.
But if we take our case as an example.
Would anyone take steroids if he suddenly lost interest in training?
Would anyone here train without steroids?

I think these 2 (training and steroids) go hand in hand if we where to talk about addiction.

But as someone said earlier, you can be addicted to anything.

My girlfriend broke her leg playing soccer as she loves to do, and when she couldnt train for half a year she started getting kinda moody, cried easily, felt somewhat down. Lost selfestem cause she knew her physical performance went down the drain.

I thought for myself many times...where do I recognize this from??

[RANA]

I don't have an addictive personality but I can tell you I love being on a cycle, I hate knowning that I will be coming off and I can't wait to start my next one. Having said that I would call it a controlled addiction

[Kratos]

?

I think these 2 (training and steroids) go hand in hand if we where to talk about addiction.

Mabye they go hand in hand because of the addiction?

2009 May-Jun;17(3):187-99.

The relationship between anabolic androgenic steroids and muscle dysmorphia: a review.
Rohman L.

Department of Mental Health, St. George's University of London, 43 Broadwater Road, Tooting, London SW17 0DU, UK. [email protected]

This review explores the condition of muscle dysmorphia (MD) and its relationship with anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). Particular emphasis is placed upon whether anabolic steroids are a predisposing, precipitating or perpetuating factor of MD. Furthermore, psychiatric complications of AAS abuse are examined. The current evidence from the literature suggests that AAS (ab)use is possibly a perpetuating factor in the evolution of MD. Psychiatric complications of AAS include mood and behavior changes, perceptual abnormalities, and withdrawal symptoms. In addition, there appears to be a credible dependence theory to AAS in fruition.

[.EA.]

why do u use that color font?

it fvkin kills me man.

x2
yea that green font suks,, i have to read the shite twice

Haha get a better monitor.

And hey, at least if you read my sh1t twice you'll fully understand what I'm trying to get across. Is this better?

[Someguy123]

you dont thnk long term use of steroids has no ill effect on your body?

no, not if you use them properly. seems all the ill long term effects, are based on genetic predisposition. and all steroids do, is speed up the process of something that would already happen to you naturally.

[number twelve]

i knew i would be mentally hooked before i even stuck myself for the first time, and i was right

[Kratos]

2009 Sep 18. [Epub ahead of print]

Illicit anabolic-androgenic steroid use.
Kanayama G, Hudson JI, Pope HG Jr.

Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

The anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) are a family of hormones that includes testosterone and its derivatives. These substances have been used by elite athletes since the 1950s, but they did not become widespread drugs of abuse in the general population until the 1980s. Thus, knowledge of the medical and behavioral effects of illicit AAS use is still evolving. Surveys suggest that many millions of boys and men, primarily in Western countries, have abused AAS to enhance athletic performance or personal appearance. AAS use among girls and women is much less common. Taken in supraphysiologic doses, AAS show various long-term adverse medical effects, especially cardiovascular toxicity. Behavioral effects of AAS include hypomanic or manic symptoms, sometimes accompanied by aggression or violence, which usually occur while taking AAS, and depressive symptoms occurring during AAS withdrawal. However, these symptoms are idiosyncratic and afflict only a minority of illicit users; the mechanism of these idiosyncratic responses remains unclear. AAS users may also ingest a range of other illicit drugs, including both "body image" drugs to enhance physical appearance or performance, and classical drugs of abuse. In particular, AAS users appear particularly prone to opioid use. There may well be a biological basis for this association, since both human and animal data suggest that AAS and opioids may share similar brain mechanisms. Finally, AAS may cause a dependence syndrome in a substantial minority of users. AAS dependence may pose a growing public health problem in future years but remains little studied.

[elfin1mf]

co-caine is a mental addiction. i know from personal experience along with medical studies

i believe AAS is the same way. you like how it makes you feel/look/get attention etc. so you keep using it.

Honestly I think it is an ambiguous line between physical and mental addictions. Cocaine for me was a physical addiction, the only one I ever had. I used it for 2 months because I had an abscess in my wisdom tooth. The pain was so terrible I resorted to calling an old friend turned drug addict for help. I only rubbed it on my tooth, once every 2-3 hours. I was not aware at the time, but the addiction can come just as powerful if not more so when applied to an abscessed tooth. When I ran out of coke, the pain seemed to come back even worse. I became psychotic. I threatened to kill a family member because "the pain is so bad" and they did not "understand". 3 days later the pain completely stopped and I was normal again. The worst addictions come from pain when you have no drugs left... This is why coke and opiates can have such immense effects on people who run out of ways of getting them after prolonged use. It can make a person completely insane to go from no pain at all in any way for months, to what.. in comparison.. feels like eternal hellfire unless you get more somehow. I can see how someone might do ANYTHING to get more... just to make the pain go away.

[Kratos]

no rec drug talk elfin, chill with that and edit it from the other threads where you were talking about IV use

[elfin1mf]

no matter what substances we use, arent we all just trying to make some sort of pain go away? When we eat.. arent we trying to cure our hunger pains through uptake of nutritients via hormones?, or otherwise stimulate dopamine, which in comparison to less dopamine may seem like less pain?

[elfin1mf]

sorry kratos, it is deleted.

[Ghost84]

How many of you guys does actually take the "right" amount of time off steroids between cycles?

[chuckt12345]

no, not if you use them properly. seems all the ill long term effects, are based on genetic predisposition. and all steroids do, is speed up the process of something that would already happen to you naturally.

How do you know that though? How do you know the long term effects are of tren for example?
Sorry but putting large amounts of hormones that are way over doctor prescribe doses for a long periods of time is not using them properly.

[Vitruvian-Man]

I didn't read the comments in this thread, because I'm on my mobile, but from the OP I will tell you that YES - from a psychological perspective steroids ARE addictive.

They are actually considered MORE addictive then MJ. MJ is known to have about a 10% addiction rate. Steroids are considered a tad higher then this.

The next stages of drug / hormone addiction lead up to drugs such as opiates, etc.

If you look at the concept of addiction from a psychological perspective it is very possible that people can become addicted to steroids. To clarify, people become addicted to pharmacological drugs because of the drugs "potential for addiction" (which is essentially governed by how lipid soluble the particular drug is.... the higher the lipid solubility = the higher chances of tolerance aka addiction.)

Similarly, pharmacological drugs (mostly anything that is psychoactive, etc.) pass through the mesolimbic pathways of the brain, which is considered the "reward pathway" because it holds the dopaminergic pathways. Once this pathway becomes sensitized by a particular drug, you begin to experience cravings.

Is in regards to this theory, is my belief that steroids may act in a similar fashion. Although steroids do not alter perception like pharmacological drugs, AAS are still hormones, and therefore once levels are unbalanced (not at homeostasis) there should be a mental rebound effect... which is conducive to addiction. (and which is why I believe steroid users eventually fall into repetitive patterns of use -- they fell inadequate when not on AAS, so they 'crave' their need for physical 'approval' -- [approval which is generally only in the users OWN mind!]

Hope that helped clear up your questions... and sorry in advance to D7M lol

[Someguy123]

How do you know that though? How do you know the long term effects are of tren for example?
Sorry but putting large amounts of hormones that are way over doctor prescribe doses for a long periods of time is not using them properly.

hell, most of the stuff docs will prescribe you. isnt at all healthy, or proper. unfortunately, we will never know the long term effects of steroids. everything right now is speculation. i just base my personal opinion, on what i read. and i havent read about any mild steroid users who had any worse health effects than others.

[D7M]

I didn't read the comments in this thread, because I'm on my mobile, but from the OP I will tell you that YES - from a psychological perspective steroids ARE addictive.

They are actually considered MORE addictive then Mary-J (sorry I will edit this out in 1 sec, if it's inappropriate). Mary-Jane is known to have about a 10% addiction rate. Steroids are considered a tad higher then this.

The next stages of drug / hormone addiction lead up to drugs such as meth, crack, etc.

If you look at the concept of addiction from a psychological perspective it is very possible that people can become addicted to steroids. To clarify, people become addicted to pharmacological drugs because of the drugs "potential for addiction" (which is essentially governed by how lipid soluble the particular drug is.... the higher the lipid solubility = the higher chances of tolerance aka addiction.)

Similarly, pharmacological drugs (mostly anything that is psychoactive, etc.) pass through the mesolimbic pathways of the brain, which is considered the "reward pathway" because it holds the dopaminergic pathways. Once this pathway becomes sensitized by a particular drug, you begin to experience cravings.

My thesis is in regards to this theory, is my belief that steroids may act in a similar fashion. Although steroids do not alter perception like pharmacological drugs, AAS are still hormones, and therefore once levels are unbalanced (not at homeostasis) there should be a mental rebound effect... which is conducive to addiction. (and which is why I believe steroid users eventually fall into repetitive patterns of use -- they fell inadequate when not on AAS, so they 'crave' their need for physical 'approval' -- [approval which is generally only in the users OWN mind!]

Hope that helped clear up your questions... and sorry in advance to D7M lol

[dec11]

Honestly I think it is an ambiguous line between physical and mental addictions. Cocaine for me was a physical addiction, the only one I ever had. I used it for 2 months because I had an abscess in my wisdom tooth. The pain was so terrible I resorted to calling an old friend turned drug addict for help. I only rubbed it on my tooth, once every 2-3 hours. I was not aware at the time, but the addiction can come just as powerful if not more so when applied to an abscessed tooth. When I ran out of coke, the pain seemed to come back even worse. I became psychotic. I threatened to kill a family member because "the pain is so bad" and they did not "understand". 3 days later the pain completely stopped and I was normal again. The worst addictions come from pain when you have no drugs left... This is why coke and opiates can have such immense effects on people who run out of ways of getting them after prolonged use. It can make a person completely insane to go from no pain at all in any way for months, to what.. in comparison.. feels like eternal hellfire unless you get more somehow. I can see how someone might do ANYTHING to get more... just to make the pain go away.

neva heard of a dentist?