Working out too much on AAS

[elfin1mf]

How many of you have ever tried little to no workouts while on cycle? Can any of you cite scientific studies which suggest that more than very light workouts once in a while is beneficial for muscle mass improvements on cycle? I know a guy who always cycles on and off but when he is busy he never works out. He keeps juicing, but just never lifts. He actually seems to gain more when he is not lifting.. alot more. I know that all the pros do insane workouts, but they also do like 10 - 20 times more juice than most of us. That is a COMPLETELY different story. So why do we all think that we can workout even 1/4 as much as them with maximum results when we do 1/20 the amount of steroids???

[Ashop]

How many of you have ever tried little to no workouts while on cycle? Can any of you cite scientific studies which suggest that more than very light workouts once in a while is beneficial for muscle mass improvements on cycle? I know a guy who always cycles on and off but when he is busy he never works out. He keeps juicing, but just never lifts. He actually seems to gain more when he is not lifting.. alot more. I know that all the pros do insane workouts, but they also do like 10 - 20 times more juice than most of us. That is a COMPLETELY different story. So why do we all think that we can workout even 1/4 as much as them with maximum results when we do 1/20 the amount of steroids???

If you do not workout while using AAS you are just wasting your time and your products.

[BlackTalon]

i dont agree.. are you just pulling that out of your ass? or parroting it because other people say it?

im sure a bulk on steroids > a bulk off steroids

[elfin1mf]

Still waiting to hear any REAL evidence that working out more than a few minutes a day is beneficial on small dose roids. Never seen the study, and a specific case I have seen with my own eyes seems to suggest otherwise

[LeroyB]

Still waiting to hear any REAL evidence that working out more than a few minutes a day is beneficial on small dose roids. Never seen the study, and a specific case I have seen with my own eyes seems to suggest otherwise

Its simple. Take what you said above just this portion.

any REAL evidence that working out more than a few minutes a day is beneficial

(you should already know) You are simply asking why working out makes us fitter, bigger and stronger. Once you know why this is, then you only scale up from there.

Working out on AAS even better.
More Hardcore the workout even better.
Lastly one mans light workout is another mans DAY OF DEATH.Just ask some of the many training partners I have been through.

Your overthinking this.

[stpete]

Are you this man's boyfriend and you know everything he does at every time of the day? Are you w/ him 24/7?

If you answered no to any of those questions then you don't have a leg to stand on. I own a bunch of property in Florida and i can give you a real good deal. Interested?

[anabolic1979]

thats such a waste of money u wont gain anywhere near the amount of muscle not working out

[boz]

lol yeah i agree with most of them here if we could just take AAS and gain the mass and muscle we need without working out wouldn't everyone be doing it =\

[elfin1mf]

This thread so far cracks me up guys. None of you have any facts to back up what you are saying. I am not his bf, I am just taking his word for it. Why would he lie about that? I am just saying, I always made the best gains when I worked out the least, a friend seems to make best gains when he does no working out at all on aas. Of course, I do not look as ripped, but I gain most weight and I believe most muscle mass when I work out least.

[JockReborn]

I call Shenanigans....no one thinks more muscle is gained with minimal work....I hope.

-J

[anabolic1979]

u need to break down the muscle tissues in order to rebuild larger stronger muscle aas increases protein synthesis. if ur not breaking down the muscle its a waste of time. i will gain a little but nowhere near the amount with intense training and nutrition. this is silly.

[TITANIUM]

I read a report on this subject in a medical journal some 20 years ago.

It said that basically, people that worked out on gear made significant strides.

The ones that did not, actually did fairly well, surprisingly.

I'll try to find the article for you.

If you think that you will put on as much muscle by not working out, then you would be wrong.

But I understand that the OP is looking for actual studies.

Best

T

[JockReborn]

All I could find:

New England Journal of Medecine

Volume 335:1-7 July 4, 1996 Number 1

The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men

Shalender Bhasin, M.D., Thomas W. Storer, Ph.D., Nancy Berman, Ph.D., Carlos Callegari, M.D., Brenda Clevenger, B.A., Jeffrey Phillips, M.D., Thomas J. Bunnell, B.A., Ray Tricker, Ph.D., Aida Shirazi, R.Ph., and Richard Casaburi, Ph.D., M.D.


ABSTRACT

Background Athletes often take androgenic steroids in an attempt to increase their strength. The efficacy of these substances for this purpose is unsubstantiated, however.

Methods We randomly assigned 43 normal men to one of four groups: placebo with no exercise, testosterone with no exercise, placebo plus exercise, and testosterone plus exercise. The men received injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate or placebo weekly for 10 weeks. The men in the exercise groups performed standardized weight-lifting exercises three times weekly. Before and after the treatment period, fat-free mass was determined by underwater weighing, muscle size was measured by magnetic resonance imaging, and the strength of the arms and legs was assessed by bench-press and squatting exercises, respectively.

Results Among the men in the no-exercise groups, those given testosterone had greater increases than those given placebo in muscle size in their arms (mean [±SE] change in triceps area, 424±104 vs. -81±109 mm2; P<0.05) and legs (change in quadriceps area, 607±123 vs. -131±111 mm2; P<0.05) and greater increases in strength in the bench-press (9±4 vs. -1±1 kg, P<0.05) and squatting exercises (16±4 vs. 3±1 kg, P<0.05). The men assigned to testosterone and exercise had greater increases in fat-free mass (6.1±0.6 kg) and muscle size (triceps area, 501±104 mm2; quadriceps area, 1174±91 mm2) than those assigned to either no-exercise group, and greater increases in muscle strength (bench-press strength, 22±2 kg; squatting-exercise capacity, 38±4 kg) than either no-exercise group. Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group.

Conclusions Supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with strength training, increase fat-free mass and muscle size and strength in normal men

[elfin1mf]

This study does not say that these men did 1hour a day of exercise... It could very well be that the men did 3 minutes per day and accumulated these results. It does not even say if the men did maximum weight possible for each exercise or if they did relatively light weight. Everything I read about this says that people who work out more than 2 or three times a week (at 45min per day) are hindering gains by overworking. I still did not see studies on specific workout times but from what I have read and experienced, less is more. I am not suggesting that NO workouts is better than a few mins a day, I am just saying that the biggest problem for people who want to gain muscle could very well be overworking. Every time someone takes a long break or decreases workout time they seem to report better gains...

[JockReborn]

I'm not offering this as taking the side of one or the other. I only posted it because it was info I found relating to the subject. I'll keep poking around and post anything I find.

-J

[ranging1]

when u talk about volume on workouts what do u mean?

most people on this forum dont train like the pro bodybuilders anyways, we are aware of how much gear they use and alot of us dont train like them, i doubt many people train like them

most people on this forum train accordingly to how much gear and calories they use

[Exilus]

I was on cycle. I only trained upper body. Gained very little mass in legs. And i only gained some mass because my legs had to adapt to the 30 lbs from my upper body.


AAS or not, no workout, no muscle.

[Critical Mass]

Its foolish to train like Jay Cutler. He is a pro. What works for him doesnt necessarely work for me or you. You have to liste to your body and push beyond your own limits. Making progress is crucial.

Taking steroids and not working out is pathetic.

[gymnerd]

Quality muscle takes hard work and dedication not only in your training but in you diet too if you have to be told otherwise you should never touch a steroid ever you dont have what it takes. Steroids are not for lazy people they are for people trying to better themselves in ways nature wont allow, nobody else needs to even consider them.

I will say this I have gained more natty than a buddy of mine who was juicing because his work ethic sucked (at least he worked out though) believe whatever you want this thread is ridiculous and it offends me a someone who has put in a shitload of hard work ,worked through injuries etc good luck taking steroids and not working out im sure youl get nice and fat and grow a nice set of titts too.

[darkcrayz]

This study does not say that these men did 1hour a day of exercise... It could very well be that the men did 3 minutes per day and accumulated these results. It does not even say if the men did maximum weight possible for each exercise or if they did relatively light weight. Everything I read about this says that people who work out more than 2 or three times a week (at 45min per day) are hindering gains by overworking. I still did not see studies on specific workout times but from what I have read and experienced, less is more. I am not suggesting that NO workouts is better than a few mins a day, I am just saying that the biggest problem for people who want to gain muscle could very well be overworking. Every time someone takes a long break or decreases workout time they seem to report better gains...

why dont you find the full article and see what it says. why do you come on here and ask us to find stuff for you? youre a big boy, do some homework.

why dont you run an experiment on yourself. 12 weeks, minimal workouts, 12 weeks hard, long, grueling workouts and find out for yourself. you can read that training more then twice a week is actually over training but unless you go apply it and learn what is best for you you are just wasting everyones time.

[dec11]

this is just stupid, you need to read up on how the muscular system works

[Immortal Soldier]

I assumed that this thread was going to be about taking "breaks" while on cycle. I have taken 1.5 weeks off from working out completely while on cycle and I will tell you that I did not grow infact the only thing that happened was that I got leaner but that was because of DIET.

If anything some members take 1-2 weeks off during workouts WHILE ON CYCLE because it helps them grow.

But apparently this thread has nothing to do with what I said

[elfin1mf]

No you are correct, I am thinking that breaks during cycle, or greatly reduced exercise duration could benefit some people.

I found a study on elderly patients. The study tested 2 groups with ranges of testosterone from low to normal (86% of both groups had the normal range). One group was administered testosterone, the other group was placebo. Half of each group exercised. Half of the exercise groups did low intensity weight training, the other half did high intensity. The study showed that men who did high intensity workouts always did the best. The study ALSO showed that there was no synergistic effect of testosterone and exercise. Adding exercise to the testosterone groups made no more gains than the added gains in mass of the no testosterone plus exercise group and the gains of no exercise plus testosterone group.

This might suggest that it is not a waste to take roids without exercising.

[Wayacrucis]

No you are correct, I am thinking that breaks during cycle, or greatly reduced exercise duration could benefit some people.

I found a study on elderly patients. The study tested 2 groups with ranges of testosterone from low to normal (86% of both groups had the normal range). One group was administered testosterone, the other group was placebo. Half of each group exercised. Half of the exercise groups did low intensity weight training, the other half did high intensity. The study showed that men who did high intensity workouts always did the best. The study ALSO showed that there was no synergistic effect of testosterone and exercise. Adding exercise to the testosterone groups made no more gains than the added gains in mass of the no testosterone plus exercise group and the gains of no exercise plus testosterone group.

This might suggest that it is not a waste to take roids without exercising.

The human liver is capable of withstanding A LOT. This MIGHT suggest that taking 300mg D-bol a day will not melt your liver.

[El Corvino]

I don't get it... you get bigger by lifting heavy and tearing muscle. Supplements enhance this.

So while you may get big solely on juice, lifting heavy will make you bigger, faster, stronger. To me, thinking you can just inject and be at your prime is stupid. It also depends on what you do...

If you take Dbol you'll probably just look puffy and loose it when you come off. If you take IGF1 then you will probably loose some fat and add a few lbs of lean muscle.

To me this question is like asking can't i still get big with a shitty diet. Yes, but not as big. Its like running a built 383 stroker motor on 87 octane.

[El Corvino]

No you are correct, I am thinking that breaks during cycle, or greatly reduced exercise duration could benefit some people.

I found a study on elderly patients. The study tested 2 groups with ranges of testosterone from low to normal (86% of both groups had the normal range). One group was administered testosterone, the other group was placebo. Half of each group exercised. Half of the exercise groups did low intensity weight training, the other half did high intensity. The study showed that men who did high intensity workouts always did the best. The study ALSO showed that there was no synergistic effect of testosterone and exercise. Adding exercise to the testosterone groups made no more gains than the added gains in mass of the no testosterone plus exercise group and the gains of no exercise plus testosterone group.

This might suggest that it is not a waste to take roids without exercising.

You never state how much test... this could be a simple prescription topical testosterone thats rubbed on by elderly men. That is completely different then injecting IM 750 mg a week for 12 weeks...

[elfin1mf]

This is my point exactly corvino.. none of us really know how to optimize conditions for mass building because we all do different amounts of cocktails of different compounds and we all have different lifestyles. I think some of us get a shitload of cardio at work and ignore the fact that going to work is what holds them back. They blame the fact that they do not have results like jay cutler on their genetics, but perhaps they are over-training considering the amount of juice they use is less than 1/20 than what jay likely uses, and the fact that jay likely has no job that makes him run around for his boss all day so he can devote all his energy into mass building.

[El Corvino]

I think everyone can agree with what you just said. Seemed like your first argument was that no work out, is just as good, if not better than working out hard core.

I don't work and I do eat clean but I'm not as big as cutler because I don't do 40 units of growth for breakfast and eat syringes for lunch. LoL People do different things for different reasons. Some people only do anavar because they don't want to be too big.

So if the point of this was different things work for different people then yes. If it was that there are outside factors that play rolls in optimizing your growth potential then yes. At the same time of all this, Im sure if I added Deca with my Dbol and test I could get even bigger even faster... but its all about what each person wants to do and what works for them.

[ranging1]

testerone helps aid in protein synthesis, and gives androgenic abilites in strength gains and more intensity when you workout, and favours nutrient use, and helps burn fat

the effects of this on the human body are

more intense workouts becuase u can train harder, allowing you to stimulate more growth and lift more weight

better recovery becuase u can repair muscle tissue faster

less odds of overtraining

better nutrient utalisation meaning u can eat more, and it will be favoured towards muscle growth

lower fat gains, or fat burning abilities

^^^ obviosuly all these effects increase with the more testerone you use, but what this should tell you is if testerone is able to improve all these abilities then you dont need to follow the average mans workout becuase ur not the average man anymore

if you have higher testerone it means u can train harder, recover faster, and eat alot more calories for muscle growth

if testerone has these abilities it should be clear that while on testerone a person can train with greater total volume becuase he has the ability to recover better

from personal experience, and im sure LOTS if not everyone on this board can tell you that once ur on higher doses of test your recovery abilites are better

the reason why we train with greater volume (or frequency) is becuase we recover from it easier

remeber weight training itself just inflicts muscle fiber damage, its after weight training the body compensates for this damage by repairing the muscle bigger and stronger

now if your on say 750mg of testerone and you have a faster and greater rate of recovery, then that means u can train with greater voluem and recover form it

if you were to train with greater volume it means uve inflicted a greater amount of muscle damage, therefore if your body recovers from that damage its going to come back bigger and stronger

e.g
doing 12 sets instead of 6 sets on your chest is going to cause greater muscle damage, and if a person was to fully recover from both workouts he would most likely come back bigger and stronger from the greater volume workout becuase his body has repaired a greater amount of muscle tissue damage

this is the reason why people on steroids train with greater volume, becuase the more damage you cause to ur muscles, the more the body has to repair

if the body is able to fully repair the damage then youll come back bigger and stronger

therefore higher volume workouts are favoured becuase they inflict more damage to a muscle

however obviously their is a point where the volume is to great, or insufficient nutrients or time are provided to help repair the muscles, and this is usually when people overtrain or dont grow on steroids

i think its all about finding the right balance, your workouts, diet, steroid dosages and rest breaks are all equally important to ensure people gain on cycle

and example would be, as you suggested pro bodybuilder do 30-40 sets on their back

however they can be on over 5 grams of steroids, and various other substances, along with 7000-8000 calorie diets, so they can recover from their workouts

a person on 500mg of testerone, doing 40 sets on chest with 3500 daily calorie intake would most likely not recover, and probably wouldnt gain

yes are both far ended example, and it is more complicated then this, but im just giving an example

hope this helps explain higher volumes uses

[Hate Being Small]

Theres no proof everyone is different

[El Corvino]

Theres no proof everyone is different

you only say this because you hate being small...

[elfin1mf]

I definitely notice that when I am on a bit of test, it feels like my muscles repair 20x faster. I just wish there were more people who have tried little to no working out for the entire cycle with high calories (I am not one) for comparison.